Wall taps from Keezer - Air or Liquid cooled?

[swanwick]

Was all set to send a 4" insulated pipe from keezer to a box that is partially in the wall and partially protuding. In that pipe would be a 2" hose. Between the inner hose and the outer hose would be the beer lines. Air gets pumped from keezer, through inner hose, and then returns in the outer hose with the beer lines. Box is insulated and caulked to be air tight. There are a few HBT posts describing this approach.

Just emailed with @tprokop and he seems to be saying that his gets a lot of condensation which means that he is getting a lot of outside air leakage. So much so that he is switching out for a liquid cooled system. In this system a single trunk carries your beer lines and two cooling lines with insulation around. A pump sends cold liquid (water or glycol) in one of the cooling lines and returns through the other. There are cooling blocks one can attach to the shanks to send the cooling liquid through those as well.

Any comments on this?

A) With the liquid cooled system, the beer lines are going to have to split from the cooling lines a several inches before the taps and the box they are all in will not be kept that cool even if insulated. Will that cause a problem

B) For a 4 tap system the pump is going to need to pump through two u-turns for each of the cooling blocks before returning. Pump recommended for that?

C) The trunk lines come with their own beer lines. Anyone have any experience about whether those are any good? Any materials lists for building your own? Takes aluminum foil, plastic wrap, etc.... Seems like a lot of work just to get better beer lines.

D) Will cold water from the kegerator be sufficient for the cooling lines or will a colder liquid be required? Certainly going to be a lot harder to use a second cooling source.

E) Alternatively, if going with the air cooled approach, maybe a plastic box interior for the wall box rather than just wood with insulation and caulking to keep it more air tight? I have a wall stud up the middle of mine so that's going to be tough.

Thx for the help from anyone who has tried these.

Cheers,
Swan

 

[day_trippr]

If I missed it, my apologies, but a critical factor is missing from the above: how far does your beer have to travel from keezer to faucet shank? It doesn't take much length before air cooling becomes impractical/insufficient, regardless of a condensation complication (have to admit that's the first I've read of that but it's not all that surprising).

As for the rest:

A. The short split won't be a big deal, the bigger issue will be shanks and faucets warming up to ambient and foaming the "first pour". There have been devices made to be plumbed into glycol loops that chill the faucet shanks, but tbh I don't know if such are easily obtained or if there are geometry requirements. The examples I've seen were fitted to t-tower boxes which are geometrically simple structures. A cobra tower, otoh, could be daunting.

B. 90s and 180s aren't that big a deal in a closed loop.

C. Don't know much about constructing trunk lines aside from the obvious components. Beer line ID is going to be critical for long runs, so keep that in mind wrt trunk line solutions. There are trunk lines available using Bev Seal Ultra Series 235 - which I would rank as "Last Year's Quality Beer Line" - so consider that a decent baseline. If possible, see if there's anyone offering trunk lines based on EVAbarrier tubing in a suitable ID.

D. Again, length matters. Recirculating a cold water reservoir in the freezer might prove viable for a short, well-insulated loop.

Cheers!

 

[swanwick]

@day_trippr thanks for the reply. I was trying to keep the post as general as possible so it would have max relevance to everyone.

A) My loop is very short. My kegerator will be right below the box. Distance from edge of kegerator to box will probably be 2-3 feet and then another foot or so within the box. I linked to the product (cooling blocks) that cools the shanks...those loops will probably add another few feet.

Based on your reply, for liquid solution I won't worry about the short amount of space inside the box that beer lines travel away from the cooling. I will make sure I cool the shanks. Was thinking that might create some condensation on the shanks and the cooling blocks. Any experience with that? I suppose that would also be a problem in all bars so maybe doesn't get cold enough to matter.

B) is that in gph? Will that low a pump rating be able to get up 4 feet or so in addition to the distance and all the tight turns around the shanks?

C) will seek out what you suggest Option 1: EVAbarrier Option 2: Bev Seal Ultra 235

D) I will probably pump from the hump side of keezer which is the full 37" across the keezer, then up 2' insulated to box, 1' insulated in box up to shanks, 1' zig zag through the shanks, and then back back the 2' insulated + 37" inside kegerator is about 12' total with about <4' of rise from the top of the hump to the taps. I'm considering that a "short loop".

Appreciate the help. I hope this convo is also useful to others. I plan to have this built in the next few months if I can find any 7+cu chest freezer. They seem to be hoarded right now.

Cheers,
Swan