Victory Hop Bill

[polkbar]

I may be losing it, but it seems like Victory found some magic hop combo and is using it in a number of their beers. A few weeks ago, my last Hop Wallop caught me off guard. It was different than I remembered and really seemed like a dry IPA version of Prima Pils. Now, I'm sipping on a Helios (the reformulated Saison) and I get the same hop profile, but with some saison character. I don't remember noticing the Prima Pils similarities in the past with Helios and Hop Wallop.

Has anyone else experienced this? I'm getting a very similar spicy, somewhat floral hop character that pairs perfectly with the dry finish of these three beers.

I'm posting this in the recipe forum because I want to replicate the hop profile. This post suggests Prima is all noble (at least for flavor/aroma) - Tett, Mittelfruh, and Saaz:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f5/victory-prima-pilsner-126541/

I'm leaning toward a saison with Wyeast's newly year-round 3711 French Saison yeast. Maybe some rye because I've had good luck with rye in saisons. And I figured I'd try a late hop technique to really bring out the hop flavors without harshness. My holdup is I've never done a saison without some American citrusy hops (usually Amarillo). I want to make sure I'm not clashing flavors here.

I got a gift certificate to Austin Homebrew recently and would like to use it for this batch. So the following recipe is tweaked a little based on what they offer. Any comments/suggestions are greatly appreciated:

Extract:
• 4 lbs Pils DME
• 2 lbs Wheat DME
• 1 lb Corn Sugar

Partial Mash:
• 1.5 lbs Flaked Rye
• .5 lbs Vienna
• 2 lbs Pils

Hops:
• 3 oz Tettnanger 30 min
• 2 oz Tradition (instead of Mittelfruh) 20 min
• 4 oz Sterling (instead of Czech Saaz) 10 min

Thanks for the help.

 

[Oldsock]

Not sure on the Victory front, I haven't noticed the similarities in those beers (that said I haven't had any of them in a couple months).

I think your recipe is pushing the complexity more than it needs to; 6 malts and 3 hops is a bit excessive for a saison. For example I just did a saison with 3711, pils, wheat, and saaz. Having a simple recipe really lets the yeast shine through (and 3711 has a great character). I would probably go pils DME, pils malt, and rye malt(it has enzymes so you can be sure it will convert and it gives more rye flavor than flaked). 3711 is a beast so you may not need the corn sugar, with that said I've never used it on an extract recipe.

Sterling does have some of that citrusy "American" character, and with 4 oz that close to the end of the boil it will be the dominant flavor. I would probably put the sterling at 30 (reducing the amount to hit your IBUs), and split the tradition and tett between 20 and 10 to give it a more European hop character. I believe Victory is big on hop back additions, since you probably can't do that at home adding some of the tett/tradition at flameout is as close you can get.

Hope that helps.