Victory Brewing is dead to me.

[brewrangerx]

My homebrew club organized a 25-person visit (about an hour away) to Victory and an "exclusive" brewer's tour, followed by lunch on our own. We arrived in a school bus about 30 minutes before opening and waited in the parking lot.

Several members brought some of their beer to share with the group and sample. Since we couldn't get in the brewery right away, about 5-6 members had their samples in Solo cups and were discussing beer on the bus in the parking lot.

At about 11:30, we were "greeted" by a manager who immediately said no one was allowed in because he saw people drinking on the bus and they don't allow "pregaming". In particular myself and another club officer "smelled like beer". Was I drinking yes, were we drunk at 11am, no. Not to mention I was cleaning up a carboy explosion minutes before leaving on the trip. But I digress, our arguments that we won't be driving (see rented bus) or asking if there was a "cool down" period were shot down. Alas, when the floor manager came out to back up her cohort, she realized that we hadn't yet paid for our tour so they begrudgingly let us in...but absolutely NO drinking once inside.

We paid for the exclusive brewers tour, but our tour guide wasn't a brewer at all. In fact the first words out of the tour guides mouth were "I work in the gift shop, so I don't know about brewing. I do know the ABV and prices!"

After our lackluster tour we were escorted to the dining area, although the place was largely empty, they refused to let us use more than 4 tables...which we did not all fit at. So a few of us had to sit at the bar....oh yeah they said we are allowed to drink now. About half way through lunch, one of our more sober members was ejected. We were never given an explained. At that time we cut our visit to victory about 3 hours short without filling our ~30 growlers, packed up and headed to Iron Hill West Chester. Upon arrival they were more than happy to take care of our entire group. In fact the bartender at IH's response to Victory was "Those guy's are dicks".

We already had somewhat of a bad impression of Victory based on a few members previous trips to the brewery and the fact that they refused to donate to our clubs homebrew day (not saying because they didn't we dont like them, but every other brewery in the area had no problem) Overall, the staff was discourteous and flat out rude at some points and at no time did we feel welcomed or even like customers. The best business decision Victory made of late was to curtail brewery tours (effective July 4) -- that will significantly reduce the public's exposure to perhaps the worst customer service and we're-better-than-you attitudes that I've encountered in quite some time.

 

[509inc]

I'd be interested to hear their side of the story. However the last thing I would want is to lead a group of 25 people who have been drinking around on a tour.

Pregaming at 11am outside of a brewery which has legal liabilities with people drinking on the property is not a judgement call I would've made.

 

[bh10]

I'd be interested to hear their side of the story. However the last thing I would want is to lead a group of 25 people who have been drinking around on a tour.

Pregaming at 11am outside of a brewery which has legal liabilities with people drinking on the property is not a judgement call I would've made.

You cant be serious.

 

[Mermaid]

Sorry you had such a crummy experience. I think you have to frame your experience from the perspective of the "business" that is Victory. The vast majority of people who go on brewery tours are likely tourists and/or folks who like Victory brews and want to see all the "stuff" in the brewery but don't care so much for the science.

As far as the sharing brews before the tour, while it was probably "harmless" from your point of view, it's an incredible liability for Victory who would have had to explain to their insurance company why they let (a tour participant who fell on the premises) on a tour after they had been drinking. It's about trying to protect their business, not squelching your enjoyment of the day. Compare the enlightened homebrewer who had just sampled a bottle of someone's IPA pre-tour to a guy who was 3/4 in the bag (obviously in the "not sober" category). They have to treat both situations the same.

You got the person who works in the "gift shop" as tour guide because that's part of their job. I would suspect you would get the same at Sam Adams, Rogue, or Stone.

I used to be the club president of a local aquarium hobbyist group. We had an "insider" who helped out with the club from the New England Aquarium, who helped to get us a "back stage" tour after hours. It took a lot of string pulling, but we didn't go through the normal tourist channels. It got us a look at the "behind the scenes" of the Aquarium but again it was after hours and the tour was done by a someone other than the person who normally works the NEAQ tourist "tours". We had to make a donation to the NEAQ as our "fee" for getting this special tour.

Don't hate the brewery. Maybe there is a way for the club to pool together money to pay one of the brewers to come and speak to the club (as something separate from the brewery tours).
Also, don't be too sour at them for not donating to your club. Again, Victory is a business - they may have some policy about what kind of time/swag/etc they can donate and to whom.

 

[509inc]

Yeah I was serious. Out of respect (to law and Brewer/Tour Guide) I would not show up to a brewery and start drinking in the parking lot while I wait for them to open for a tour.

I should add that I have been picked up for pregaming in the parking lot outside a concert.

 

[wildwest450]

I have a feeling there's more to this story.....



-

 

[Misfit]

I also have a feeling there is more to the story. When did this happen. I have a few friends who work there and ill ask to see if they know anything more. But I really can see from their point of view about the drinking before the tour. The floors there tend to have water on them. There is low hanging things everywhere in that place. Metal stairs. It really is NOT the place you want to go with a group of people you don't know nor know how much any of them have drank. You don't know if they had two 3.5% beer or two 18% beers. One you can be sober the other flat out drunk.

 

[bryanjints]

I have a feeling there's more to this story.....



-

The story above is very accurate. The only things left out are the specific details that don't in any way paint the picture any different than described above.

You're right the guy who initially told those 3 guys who had solo cups in the parking lot to "You can't drink in the parking lot, if you wanna drink you need to go back on the bus!"

His tone was not nice. He was not reasonable he was flat out a dickhead. I have never been treated so poorly on any brewery tour I have ever gone on.


Look I understand the liability aspect of it fine. But if it is that much of a problem why say you need to get back on the bus if you want to drink. Then 20 minutes later he says if you were on the bus or smell like beer you are not coming inside. No one was visibly intoxicated I would say the majority of our members TASTED less than 8 beers. Not full beers or full cups but a few ounces to get a sample of someone else's brew. So lets say someone had 3 ounces of 8 beers in the 2 hours leading up to the above situation. That is the equivalent of 2 12oz beers in 2 hours. That might be enough to make some 100lb 15 year old girl VISIBLY INTOXICATED but for the majority of our members who are all homebrewers we were fine. Would I recommend driving after drinking that much NO but we had a driver and were going on a brewery tour. No one had so much to drink they couldn't walk through the brewery. I am willing to bet a good amount of people on this forum have had more to drink and gotten behind the wheel.

As for the tour guide not knowing anything. We paid for a BREWERS TOUR! Victory offers free tours that last for 15 minutes and a $10 BREWERS TOUR that is supposed to last an hour. We were given three 4oz samples on the tour but that was hardly worth $10.

Within 5 minutes of the beginning of our tour the guide stated they import Kent Goldings MALT from the UK. I am sorry but if you are going to try to teach anyone about brewing you should know what ingredients you use and what their names are.


As for the member who was thrown out. All I will say is he was far from being visibly intoxicated there was 2 other guys within 5 feet of said member that were visibly intoxicated. The manager rather than do it discretely and quietly ripped a beer glass out of his hand while he was in mid sentence. She used enough force to spill the beer and then proceeded to YELL at him to get out.



In addition to cornering us to the 4 tables we had. They gave us 1 server for our 30+ people looking to eat lunch. I felt bad for the guy and he APOLOGIZED for the treatment of management. He is the one who really suffered yesterday as he missed out on a lot of tips as we left long before most of us had spent as much money as we intended to.



If you like breweries that are in it for the beer and customer find someone else to support Victory is in it solely for the money.

One of our members said "I got better treatment from the tour at the Budweiser brewery"

 

[the_trout]

Of course there is more to the story. I'm sure this would not be the account you got if you asked the manager at Victory what happened. However, if this is how your customers feel after they have left your tour you have done a poor job. If you are going to offer a retail product of any sort part of the job is ensuing your customers satisfaction, even if they are wrong.

Regardless of what happened, if I left this tour with the same impression of the OP I probably would be done with them too. Or at least come here and let people know what happened.

FWIW I just had a nice customer service expirence with them. I email the QC department about a carbonation problem with a beer I had gotten from them. They apologised, aid they couldnt replace the beer by law but offered me choice of a few items. I took a tshirt. 3 days later, it showed up at my door along with a few decals and a handwritten letter of apology. I was satisfied and later that day bought a sixer of Hop Wallop.

 

[Scruffy1207]

It's obvious that the management handled the situation wrong. I do agree that drinking tasters is in a bit of taste (pun intended). But just because your club indulged in taters did not give justification to the horrible customer service you encountered. If you're going to serve someone, customer service is top priority over all else. They should have told you politely to stop then have you excellent service as long as the rules were followed from then on, and if they weren't kindly ask your group to leave. Management was wrong, end of story.

 

[dwarven_stout]

A lot of you guys responding are being silly. There are plenty of production breweries out there that not only allow "pregaming" but encourage you to bring a beer along on the FREE tour. Examples that I have been a part of include Deschutes in Bend, OR (great tour) and Great Divide in Denver, CO (also a great tour- got to try an apricot mead made by one of the brewers from homegrown fruit). I preceded both those tours with a glass of one or another Imperial beer brewed at the establishment.


Bottom line: If there were specific rules to the "Exclusive Tour" regarding pre-tour conduct, Victory should have made those clear ahead of time.

 

[doctorRobert]

So they wouldnt let you drink until you got to the bar? A**holes!

 

[Haputanlas]

You got the person who works in the "gift shop" as tour guide because that's part of their job. I would suspect you would get the same at Sam Adams, Rogue, or Stone.

Poor examples. I've been on two of those three and each had very experienced tour guides with a wealth of knowledge.

I haven't been on a brewery tour yet where the guide couldn't answer some pretty hardcore questions. Not saying they aren't out there, just saying that this should be considered the exception.

 

[Zamial]

The "tail gating" (That's what we call drinking in a parking lot before X event around here) was WAY out of line IMO. You guys were going to a brewery and were going to be sampling the beer inside. Do you bring your own steak to Red Lobster? No...There is a time and place for "tastings and socials". I personally would have been insulted if you guys showed up at my brewery and were drinking homebrews in the parking lot BEFORE the tour...After the tour, no problems. If you felt the urge to pull a beer bong out and shotgun whiskey in it that would be up to you...IMO you guys were WAY in the wrong and your club needs to put some guidelines/rules in place for your club "road trips and brewery tours" even if it is on a per trip deal. My club sends emails out to everyone and talks about issues just like this for when it is right or wrong to bring/drink homebrews so no one is "out of line" or feels that way.

Step back and look at it from the manager's perspective not only are you guys being "yahoo's" one of you may be a potential liability. I am not sure what was said specifically but I can imagine the talk when they said no one that has been drinking or smells like they have can come in. All the "but, but, but what if we" would also not have been good to listen to...I am sure they fully understand you guys came a long ways, as a big group on a bus it was right there...and why on earth did you not put on clean clothes before you left on said trip? have you no self respect or respect for the other people on the bus that will be smelling your stench? yuck!

This is where I change to "your side" they should have not given you the gift store employee when you paid for something more. This and this alone is the only thing that is working in your favor, IMO.

So now the tour is over, and you are still being scrutinized against/watched because of what has happened before the tour. In the manager's mind(s) you guys are "trouble". I have no idea what your club member said or did. I would bet it was a snide comment or one that was interpreted that way by an already agitated manager. The instant removal of said drink and yelling to get this person to leave may have not been handled quite right but most people do not react well when "being asked nicely to leave" this is why there are "bouncers".

The last thing to add is you did not tip your food server well because why? you guys were mad at the brewery. That person busted there hump, tried to make you happy and you slap him in the face. That is uncalled for.

I do not drink much of this breweries beers and this does not effect me in either direction. I am sorry you felt you had a bad experience but IMO 95% of this could have been avoided with some basic rules from the club. I hope you try to learn from this and not have a chip on your shoulder.

 

[milldoggy]

Do you bring your own steak to Red Lobster?

steak, red lobster, now that is funny

 

[petep1980]

They make Helios. They can do whatever they want as far as I am concerned.

Seriously though, I'm sure there was more sharing than a few sampler sips beforehand. Come on, it's us.

 

[JetSmooth]

About half way through lunch, one of our more sober members was ejected.

"One of our more sober members"?

So y'all were tanked. Sounds like a good call on Victory's part.

Of course, I would have turned around and walked out the moment I got the "I'm from the gift shop" line.

Edit to add: Also, I'm sure there's some serious legal implications of drinking in an establishment's parking lot. You want to jeopardize their operation?

 

[petep1980]

The lady doth protest too much, methinks

 

[Beerrific]

I think a lot of homebrewers need to get rid of the notion that pro/craft brewers/breweries should/can/will bend over backwards to do anything for them that they would not do for any other customer. You are the customer they are the business.

I guess you can stop buying their beer, what do they care? You are just 1 customer.

Speaking of, anyone had the Victory Summer Love? Pretty good and too easy to put a way about 3-4.

 

[Teromous]

I'm surprised you guys were allowed to drink on the bus.

 

[StunnedMonkey]

They make Helios. They can do whatever they want as far as I am concerned.

And Prima Pils. They could kill, grill, and eat kidnapped babies on the premises and I'd still buy their stuff.

 

[chriswilkes33]

BS, the brewery should bend over backward for every customer, and to suggest not drinking on a brewery tour is out and out dumb. I am willing to bet that "especially if the brewery expects a homebrew club to show up" the brewers of breweries here in Austin would expect you to bring homebrew to share with them.

 

[lastsecondapex]

I guess you can stop buying their beer, what do they care? You are just 1 customer.

That philosophy will kill any business. Its even slowly eroding a number of very large companies (BMC will be 50/50 in distributing their own and other's craft beers (New Belgium, Southern Tier, Great Divide) in less than 5 years). It will KILL smaller operations.

 

[broadbill]

In essence, you were asking the Victory manager(s) to literally put their careers on the line in order to let 30 or so people of questionable sobriety into their OSHA-approved facility. There is any number of ways this could have gone wrong....I'm with the Victory people on this one.

 

[broadbill]

BS, the brewery should bend over backward for every customer, and to suggest not drinking on a brewery tour is out and out dumb. I am willing to bet that "especially if the brewery expects a homebrew club to show up" the brewers of breweries here in Austin would expect you to bring homebrew to share with them.

Yeah, but when the manager walks out, sees a bus full of people drinking in the parking lot, what is the first thing he is going to think?

 

[realjd]

In many jurisdictions it's illegal to consume alcohol in the parking lot of a place that has a license to sell or serve. At least it is here in Florida. He may have been strict because his license was on the line if you all were caught.

 

[rico567]

Week before last, we took the tour of New Belgium's brewery in Fort Collins, CO. The beer flowed beginning pre-tour when we checked in about 15 minutes early (you must have a reservation) we were given a token and invited to go into the tasting room and have a beer before the tour started. When we entered the room where the introductory talk was given, there was a glass of dubbel in front of each chair. When we left there 10-15 minutes later, we were told to leave our glasses on a tray and pick up our "walking around" beer from a tray by the exit- which consisted of a 10% Imperial Fat Tire. And so it went. By the end of the hour and a half tour, we had been fed about two pints, the grand finale being a glass of their Folie wood-aged sour ale. It almost goes without saying that we thoroughly enjoyed the tour.

So it would appear that New Belgium is very "drink while touring" -friendly. However, things are not always as they appear, which is why I'm not commenting on the experience at Victory. (I've learned a lot about anecdotes on the Internet over the years.)

First: The amount of beer we were given WAS limited. Two pints in 90 minutes isn't a great deal.

Second: The New Belguim physical plant is extremely tour-friendly.....I suspect by a great deal of careful design and planning. There's really no way to get near anything that could hurt you, and they have a glassed-in gallery above their bottling facility.

Third: There were a ton of people in the tasting room, drinking beer, having their growlers filled, etc. But these people couldn't take the tour- structure of segregating the reservations-only tour from those people was, after reading the OP, a very good plan.

Fourth: This tour didn't even pretend to be about a seminar on beer science. The tour guide was extremely knowledgeable, but no questions about that were either asked nor information volunteered.

Fifth: I would be fascinated to transplant the Victory tour group magically transplanted and given the New Belgium tour and see what happened......but I'll comment no more on that.

ALMOST COMPLETELY I will comment on drinking on the bus. During my working years, I was faculty at a small midwestern high school. One night (obviously in a year before the age of rent-a-cop security) I was staffing a football game, and some forty or so visiting fans had rented a bus to come the 30 miles or so, which they had provisioned with a couple of kegs of beer. The fights started almost as soon as they arrived, and continued off and on throughout the game. At one point, the high school players had to break up a fight. The next Monday morning, the organizers of the kegger bus were tracked down by the state police and told that if they ever started out on that kind of an expedition again, none of them would reach their intended destination. I still have a kind of sore spot for people drinking on a bus........

 

[dwarven_stout]

BS, the brewery should bend over backward for every customer, and to suggest not drinking on a brewery tour is out and out dumb. I am willing to bet that "especially if the brewery expects a homebrew club to show up" the brewers of breweries here in Austin would expect you to bring homebrew to share with them.

This.

 

[bryanjints]

I'm surprised you guys were allowed to drink on the bus.

This is legal. Drinking on a train or a bus is legal as long as the driver is not drinking.

 

[MBasile]

This is legal. Drinking on a train or a bus is legal as long as the driver is not drinking.

Negative, at least in CA there must be a partition between the driver and main cabin. This is why it is legal in limos but not shuttle busses.

 

[chrisdb]

I met this group at the brewery. I'd have to say they were definately NOT tailgating in the parking lot. Sure some folks brought a growler of a special brew to sample but the pours were 2 oz in a cup... much less than we were served on the tour itself.
And once on the tour, the employees- including one of our guides- were walking around sipping from pint glasses while on duty.
My impression was much like the original post. My wife who was drinking a cup of coffee from a convenience store paper cup was pointed out by an employee as and example of a person "walking around with a cup". She was/is my designated driver and it was obvious that she was not drinking alcholic beverages. As for the school bus, I have to say that it is evidence that the club that organised this outing was being sensible and responsible in keeping it's members and the general public safe from inebriated drivers. Kudos to the club for acting responsibly.
I've been to many wineries and breweries... including brew pubs and I have never been so disrespected by the proprietors as I had in this situation. My take is similar to the original poster who surmised that the PAID brew tour was being DENIED access was the factor that changed the managements mind. They weren't budging until that little fact was presented.
So much for their principles.
BTW- the main reason I wanted the tour was to see and hear about their decoction mash for Prima Pils. Unfortunately the tour guide was completely unprepared to answer questions from real brewers as she was not a brewer but in sales.
Sorry I missed the Iron Hill leg of the tour as Iron Hill as Iron Hill has had brewmasters come to address our club and have bent over backwards to support our club.
As for Victory I'm not the best judge. I know their Prima Pils is highly regarded but I'm not a big Pils fan. I think they caught the trend for highly hopped IPA style beers, but I find there beers lacking in the sublety found in European and really good craft brews. I'm not going to boycott their beer because we were treated poorly at their brewery, but I doubt I'll be buying Victory because it's just not good enough.
the best beer I had all day... 2 oz of german witbier on the bus.
It was all downhill from there.

 

[IffyG]

I met this group at the brewery. I'd have to say they were definately NOT tailgating in the parking lot. Sure some folks brought a growler of a special brew to sample but the pours were 2 oz in a cup... much less than we were served on the tour itself.

The amount poured is immaterial, they were drinking in the parking lot of a brewery which is frowned upon in most jurisdictions. This was enough to label the group troublemakers and the management acted as such for the duration of their visit.

 

[bryanjints]

Negative, at least in CA there must be a partition between the driver and main cabin. This is why it is legal in limos but not shuttle busses.

Good thing we didn't go to CA then.

 

[ericd]

Ugh, this is why I never go on these things.

I hate most people's idea of a "vacation": bull**** plane trip, bull**** hotel, bull**** relatives, bull**** food, bull**** itinerary, the list goes on....

Just give me a week at home with nothing to worry about and I'll be happy

 

[dwarven_stout]

The amount poured is immaterial, they were drinking in the parking lot of a brewery which is frowned upon in most jurisdictions

[citation needed]

 

[WhiskeyR]

Well damn. I do the Saint Arnold tour here in Houston all the time and they always let you drink first. In fact, their beer hall if half the facility! I didn't realize other tours were so different.

 

[emjay]

[citation needed]

Victory really has no idea how much people have had to drink, so of course it's immaterial.

Beyond that, it just seems like an extremely rude and immature thing to do. There's a time and a place for everything... I guess I just don't understand the apparent NEED to be sharing each other's brews in a brewery's parking lot.

 

[HolyFirkins]

of course management's story will not match up..they are the ones who have everything to lose from this ordeal. it IS a business in that sense, so of course they will say "this man needed to be kicked out and we handled it professionally". it was an utter joke. nobody was given an explanation for that. even when the club president approached the management calmly and in a professional manner, there were no answers. i hate to reiterate everything that was said, but seriously, TASTINGS of beer is by no means disorderly, and no one WAS disorderly. the parking lot incident happened IMMEDIATELY. there was no time to be "drinking" quantities of beer, he saw cups and was severely rude. rather than just say "guys we cant permit this. please stop tasting your beers and when we open in a half hour we will go from there"..this guy was a complete nazi, on a power trip. he looked like he was the head chef.

as far as "liabilities" for drinking before a tour, im not really a business man, but i have common sense. when the tour itself provides beer...MULTIPLE TASTINGS (totalling in 12oz)..IN THE MIDDLE OF THE TOUR..then what difference does it make if we sampled before? the "liability" you speak of in not wanting intoxicated people to be falling into equipment during the tour, that could very well happen if they are encouraging a group of people to drink DURING the tour. so RIDDLE ME THAT? a brewpub will serve multiple beers to people eating and drinking there every day, and then send them on their way to their cars to drive home. so how is THAT not a liability? the same thing is happening.

i have been on MANY tours in different environments. museums, aquariums, fenway park, and many breweries..even the free ones the people KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT. "Gift Shop" salesmen are not the ones doing it. It may not be one of the head honchos in charge, but it IS someone who is severely versed in the history and knowledge of the establishment. and when a homebrewers club PAYS for a BREWER'S TOUR, thats what they should get. this lady was not able to answer any questions whatsoever. she passed around a bowl of hop flowers, as most brewery tours do and i asked her "what kinda hops are these"..she rudely and snippishly (yeah thats a word) said "i dunno, whatever they were using last, they were probably swept off the floor"..i felt horrible, as if i were wrong for asking..her whole demeanor was negative.

i was thoroughly disappointed. what we paid for is not what we got. relations were very unprofessional, as even our officers tried to sensibly ask the reasoning for what went on and there were no answers. what victory has seemed to forget over time is that making good beer is a great thing, but the relationships/interactions/reputation is WAY more important. the bottom line is, Victory DOES make some pretty good beers, but so does about 50 breweries/brewpubs in our area alone, and hundreds all over our nation and hundreds imported (all at about 20 stores in our own town)..so we can get good beer anywhere. its the experience and the reputation of the establishment that i think is whats important. i'll have no problem replacing my fridge with beer from a better establishment.

To Victory: "Everyone in the room is now dumber because of your response, I award you no points..and may God have mercy on your soul" -Billy Madison

 

[mrduna01]

I second the comment that if the customer service was sub par, than shame on victory... And one or 30 lost customers is a big deal, or should be a big deal to any business. If not, than it's a crap business.

As for drinking on the bus, or sampling as I believe it was, so what. It's a brewery tour with a homebrew club who's members gather to drink and enjoy beer while learning about it. In my state it's completely legal to rent a bus and drive around while chugging 30 kegs if that's what you wish to do. Many people would do the same without a driver so kudos to them.

I would venture to say that most brewery and even winery tours serve alcohol, before during and after tours so I don't see the issue unless someone in the group was acting belligerent and we have two attendees from supposedly different groups now commenting that the group was acting responsible.

I'm on the clubs side here.

 

[mrduna01]

I'd also like to add that said red lobster (or any business for that matter wouldn't refuse you entry if you had a couple beers on the way and were acting reasonable.