Very slow fermentation

[simontja]

5th October I brewed a "triple" IPA with a OG of 1.098.

I'm using WLP009 Australian Ale Yeast, with a 1.2 liter starter of 2 days, made with a 1.040 extract in a 2 liter pet bottle.

I mashed at 147 for 90 minutes, mashed out at 178.

The problem with this beer is that it's fermenting very very slowly. the gravity at the moment is 1038, as of 22nd Oct, 16 Oct it was 1.046. Airlock activity is around 1 bubble every 35 seconds.

I've shaken the BetterBottle and whirled up the yeast cake almost daily for the last week, but that seemed to have no to very little impact on the air lock activity, and provenly so in the fermentation in general.

I brewed this beer especially for the upcomming weekend, and would very very much like to get to keg it before saturday night.

Would this be possible? And how? Would using a bunch of yeast nutrients and using WLP099 work?

Fermentation has taken place at around 64-66 f.

 

[CA_Mouse]

Your temp is too low. Raise the temp to 66-68°F to get the yeast to wake up.

Fermentation temp per White Labs is:
Attenuation: 70-75%
Flocculation: High
Optimum Ferment Temp: 65-70°F (18-21°C)
Alcohol Tolerance: Medium

http://www.whitelabs.com/yeast/wlp009-australian-ale-yeast?s=homebrew

 

[Singletrack]

The problem with this beer is that it's fermenting very very slowly. the gravity at the moment is 1038, as of 22nd Oct...

Time is relative. Your time may be moving faster than normal, causing you (the observer) to see a slow ferment that is actually on track. For example, you have a gravity reading from Oct 22, when it is only Oct 21 (here). You must try to experience time the way your yeast do.

And besides all that bull, I think you are going to have to wait it out. I do not have experience with WLP099, so no comment about that. Agree about increasing ferm temp if you can.

Good luck!

 

[simontja]

1 week later, 1.029. Pitched another bag of US-04 with yeast nutrition. Fermentation speed doesn't seem to have changed...

 

[kstiglich]

If your Original Gravity was 1.098, it was a very high gravity wort. Liquid yeast has very low viable cells, therefore when used you need to propagate large starters... Im using Beersmith and using an OG of 1.098, It recommends me an starter size of 6.33liters for your gravity.
When you create an starter you must consider a quantity of DME for each liter in a ratio aprox of 1 to 10. In that case you would need such 650gr of DME for your starter. The idea is that your yeast will be propagating itself while it found sugars on your starter, and you expect to growth until you reach 431 billions cells aprox.

In the other hand, you need oxygen to let yeast to propagate, so if you use your yeast in your beer, probably it already consume all the oxygen that it have on your wort and it is not propagating anymore. For that reason you prefer to propagate in a starter with a stir plate that is oxygenating your wort all time.

Now, you need to use more yeast, but I would recommend using more us-04, enough yeast to complete your fermentation because you will not propagate more yeast in your beer because your yeast probably already consume all the oxygen. Rehydrate your US-04 and continue fermenting...probably you found a new recipe to produce a great beer! Good luck

 

[simontja]

If your Original Gravity was 1.098, it was a very high gravity wort. Liquid yeast has very low viable cells, therefore when used you need to propagate large starters... Im using Beersmith and using an OG of 1.098, It recommends me an starter size of 6.33liters for your gravity.
When you create an starter you must consider a quantity of DME for each liter in a ratio aprox of 1 to 10. In that case you would need such 650gr of DME for your starter. The idea is that your yeast will be propagating itself while it found sugars on your starter, and you expect to growth until you reach 431 billions cells aprox.

In the other hand, you need oxygen to let yeast to propagate, so if you use your yeast in your beer, probably it already consume all the oxygen that it have on your wort and it is not propagating anymore. For that reason you prefer to propagate in a starter with a stir plate that is oxygenating your wort all time.

Now, you need to use more yeast, but I would recommend using more us-04, enough yeast to complete your fermentation because you will not propagate more yeast in your beer because your yeast probably already consume all the oxygen. Rehydrate your US-04 and continue fermenting...probably you found a new recipe to produce a great beer! Good luck

I believe the problem was serious underpitching.

It started out pretty vigorously, though.

I've repitched US-04 1 week ago, but no difference whatsoever since.

Should I rehydrate/make a us-04 starter and repitch another pack to make sure it will be viable? I'm actually leaning towards buying a WLP099 to really just get it going.

 

[jfr1111]

I believe the problem was serious underpitching.

It started out pretty vigorously, though.

I've repitched US-04 1 week ago, but no difference whatsoever since.

Should I rehydrate/make a us-04 starter and repitch another pack to make sure it will be viable? I'm actually leaning towards buying a WLP099 to really just get it going.

I'm thinking you are probably done: anything you pitch in such a hostile environment (alcohol, CO2, etc.) likely will not ferment. Appreciate your beer for what is. 1.029 for such a high OG is not in worrisome territory.

Next time, pitch the appropriate number of cells if doing a starter or just use dry yeast. That was some world class underpitching.

 

[Yooper]

Are you 100% sure of your reading? You've made sure the hydrometer reads 1.000 in water, and are not using refractometer I assume, but it's always good to double check.

 

[simontja]

Are you 100% sure of your reading? You've made sure the hydrometer reads 1.000 in water, and are not using refractometer I assume, but it's always good to double check.

Using hydrometer, shows 1.000 in water.

I'm thinking you are probably done: anything you pitch in such a hostile environment (alcohol, CO2, etc.) likely will not ferment. Appreciate your beer for what is. 1.029 for such a high OG is not in worrisome territory.

Next time, pitch the appropriate number of cells if doing a starter or just use dry yeast. That was some world class underpitching.

Might be correct, the newly pitched us 0-5 activated with yeast nutrient did nothing, 1.028 as of today.

Maybe worth give it a last shot with WLP099?

 

[jfr1111]

Using hydrometer, shows 1.000 in water.



Might be correct, the newly pitched us 0-5 activated with yeast nutrient did nothing, 1.028 as of today.

Maybe worth give it a last shot with WLP099?

You are welcome to try, but I wouldn't bother: you still hit 68% apparent attenuation and about 9% ABV. Live and learn.

Any yeast you pitch in that is going to croak and possibly give off flavours and take up more beer volume when racking, or shave off a few points at best. There is a lot of precedent for high FG beers (1.040 + is not unheard of now and was common in the old days).

 

[simontja]

You are welcome to try, but I wouldn't bother: you still hit 68% apparent attenuation and about 9% ABV. Live and learn.

Any yeast you pitch in that is going to croak and possibly give off flavours and take up more beer volume when racking, or shave off a few points at best. There is a lot of precedent for high FG beers (1.040 + is not unheard of now and was common in the old days).

Just that I'm not a huge fan of sweet IPAs, like them as dry as possible really... I purchased wlp099, but with your comment I haven't decided if I should use it yet, what I would do ismake a starter for 2 days with the WLP099, in a 1.5 gallon carboy, and then discard and add siphon 1.5 gallon of the beer to the smaller carboy, if it starts to ferment, siphon back the whole 1.5 gallon after a few days.

Do you think this wouldn't work?

 

[ScrewyBrewer]

I use a very simple rule of thumb for doubling cell counts when using a starter, it's one vial of liquid yeast = 100 billion cells when mixed in a 2 liter starter on a stir plate = 220 billion cells.

Right after calculating the original gravity of the recipe the very next thing I do is calculate the number of cells needed to ferment that into beer. Yeast nutrient and oxygenation are important in any beer whose gravity is 1.060 or higher in my mind.

 

[trentm]

Just that I'm not a huge fan of sweet IPAs, like them as dry as possible really... I purchased wlp099, but with your comment I haven't decided if I should use it yet, what I would do ismake a starter for 2 days with the WLP099, in a 1.5 gallon carboy, and then discard and add siphon 1.5 gallon of the beer to the smaller carboy, if it starts to ferment, siphon back the whole 1.5 gallon after a few days.

Do you think this wouldn't work?

Like you, I don't like sweet beer so I understand your dilemma. However, as other post have stated, it will be a real challenge to restart a fermentation with that much alcohol present. If you decide to try it with your WLP099, my suggestion would be to create your starter with as much continuous oxygen as possible and pitch the whole thing at high krausen. This way the yeast are already in fermentation mode and will have good quality cell membranes that will help with the high EtOH level (the latter being the result of lots of oxygen in your starter). If you let the starter go to completion, the yeast will have to go through lag phase and may not be able to reach fermentation in the hostile environment.

If you were willing to give it a couple of months, Brettanomyces could be an option.