Venting about Utah's Sharia State

[OldHamlet]

So what's the situation with homebrewing? Are you limited to buying from internet sources only?

Probably not. I was going to say become a homebrewer.

 

[Saxon]

...uh... I live in AL. We were only beat by our progressive neighbors - MS - as the last state to make homebrew legal. ...but we can get a beer from a bartender we can see.

Yup, those two, Kentucky, and Oklahoma were the only states that hadn't legalized it yet when Utah did.

 

[bobeer]

I couldn't do it man... I'd move in a second to somewhere that I could function and live the way I want to live my life. Once someone else's beliefs start to impede on my own personal way of life is when I'm out. Life is too short to have to deal with this kind of stuff.

 

[oceanic_brew]

I just wanna add here that the law and legislation in regards to state or spirituality of a process using a force of nature by one organism to transform liquid extracted by another organism is 100% "general beer discussion"

We also must expect that given the general nature of such a topic we should expect participants to deviate from the main focus in order to give context!

It is our right, regardless of law, to process sweet wort into alcohol. Any person, or spiritual/legal entity that tells you to do otherwise is helplessly arguing with the laws of nature that will inevitably ferment away at will!!

 

[microbusbrewery]

So they released the details of another bill this week, HB442. This is the one that is supposed to be the "compromise" that does away with the "Zion Curtain" which is the requirement that a wall/partition/ divider be in place so that children can't see drinks being prepared, beers poured, etc. In recent polls 70+% including a majority of Mormons favor doing away with the law. KSL, the local church-owned television station and news source broke the news on Friday that Lawmakers and the restaurant association came to an agreement... and the bill was 120 pages long. It doesn't take 120 pages to declare "Zion Curtain no longer applies". Here's an excerpt from Mike Riedel at utahbeer.blogspot.com that recaps the "compromise":

"Only in Utah can you take a sh*tty law that 70% of the people hate and find a way to make it even worse. That's happened to the newly unveiled Zion Curtain bill. After being revealed yesterday, the specifics of*HB442, a bill that was supposed to bring sanity back to the restaurant industry was revealed to have an insane amount of modifications that turned the bill into a massive steaming pile of sh*t. Included in this petty and spiteful piece of legislation is:

A restructuring of the licenses for restaurants and bars, further separating the two.

Shrinking the distance restaurants that serve liquor must be from community locations like churches and schools.

Mandatory ID checks for anyone who sits in a "dispensary area" where alcohol is poured.

No more than two drinks before a patron at a time.

Beer labels must comply to a state standard, including making sure there is no confusion between a malted beverage and a soda pop.

Creates a pair of anti-underage drinking programs in eighth and 10th grades.

More training for waiters, bartenders and restaurants.

The Utah Department of Public Safety will do more to track sales to underage people.

"Booze carts" are forbidden.

Beer in grocery and convenience stores*will be limited in where it can be displayed (to one or two areas).

A hike of 2% in the cost of liquor.

*Some of the major sticking point with those in the restaurant industry would be the newly conceived "Zion Zone" that would that would protrude 20 plus feet away from the restaurant's bar, compromising the size of the main dining area. The other bullsh*t is that "restructuring of the licenses" that would dismantle the gray area's that separate bars and restaurants. This would force places like Red Rock and Squatters to choose between their liquor licences and their customer's children.

As it stands, this bullsh*t compromise is no compromise. It's a reminder to you normal adults that those (Latter Day Saints) in the legislature are still in charge and you are nothing more than a guest in your own home. Don't let this pass as it's currently written - it could still change. Please keep your eyes on this closely and act appropriately.*

If that not enough to send you over the edge, we must also work to defeat*HB155*the 0.05 BAC bill, which is of great concern as it would make criminals out of responsible restaurant patrons who enjoy an alcoholic beverage with their meal, negatively impact the restaurant industry and image of our state."

 

[microbusbrewery]

The BA and AHA sent out a call to action email tonight re HB155. Any homebrewers out there with a few moments to spare, help a brother out and please email the members of the Senate Transportation, Public Utilities, Energy, and Technology Committee. Let them know you won't be bringing your out-of-state-dollars to Utah if this bill is enacted into law. Member email addresses are:
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]

Below is the communication from the BA/AHA:

Support Your Local Brewery
Please Take Action to Stop House Bill 155
Feb. 28, 2017

The Utah Brewers' Guild is asking you to contact state senators (email addresses below) on the Senate Transportation, Public Utilities, Energy, and Technology Committee immediately and ask them to STOP House Bill 155 before their hearing at 8:00 AM tomorrow, March 1.

Please read the following information provided by the Utah Brewers' Guild.
House Bill 155 makes fundamental changes to Utah law, and it should not be considered with only a few days left in the 2017 legislative session.

This detrimental bill contains some very troubling language by Rep. Norman K Thurston and Sen. J. Stuart Adams, proposing a reduction of Utah’s definition of drunk driving from .08 BAC (currently recognized by all 50 states as the definition of intoxicated driving) to .05 BAC.

HB 155 criminalizes responsible drinkers - Instead of deterring dangerous drivers from getting behind the wheel while heavily intoxicated, a change to a .05 legal limit criminalizes responsible drinkers, as some people can reach the proposed .05 legal limit with as little as one drink. This dramatic change in Utah law should not be rushed through the Legislature in the closing days of the session without careful scrutiny.

HB 155 will damage our tourism industry - Following years of study and legislative debate, the federal government and all 50 states have agreed on .08 as the appropriate standard for drunk driving. Educated consumers of alcohol understand how much they can consume based on that limit. A change to .05 in Utah would be confusing to tourists (and our citizens) as they would not know their limits under this unique law. How would they react? Would they avoid coming to Utah altogether, limit consumption or break our limit law (due to a lack of education)? Any of these three outcomes would have a negative impact on our economy.

HB 155 won’t reduce alcohol related fatalities - Research has shown a move from .08 to .05 would do little to reduce risk—the numbers show that most drunk driving-associated deaths involve hardcore/high-BAC (.15 and above) and repeat offenders.

HB 155 would stretch limited police resources away from dealing with real crime, including working to remove hardcore offenders from the roads.

The Utah Brewers' Guild needs your immediate help.

Please email senators on the Senate Transportation, Public Utilities, Energy, and Technology Committee to request they stop this bill before their hearing at 8:00 AM tomorrow, March 1.

Let’s make sure it doesn’t get out of committee. Please contact committee members today!

 

[Paps]

Another example, medical marijuana. My disclaimer, I've never used any illegal drug in my life and I have been very skeptical of the medical benefits of marijuana. .

IMHO if weed is medically beneficial or not (it is)
that shouldn't even come into question.
Why? you ask.
Because people whom are adults own their own bodies.
It is morally wrong to force prohibitive views upon others at the threat of a cage/kidnapping you (arrest) and the point of a gun (cops WILL shoot and kill you if you resist arrest)
No victim, no crime.
No, you cannot claim that "They are harming themselves,therefore they are the victim." You are not your brothers keeper and going by that logic they could arrest you for eating a Big-Mac.
If some John/Jane Doe wants to inject Ajax or window cleaner into their own arm....lettem. It's none of your business. (not singling you out personally as this applies to everyone,including govt officials,police, and clergy)
Just an FYI to all, I do not partake in any illegal "drugs" myself.
I just beleive in freedom....Life,Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness.
-rant over. we now return to your regularly scheduled programming.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

I highly doubt this statement. I strongly suspect their "recreational drug use" started with nicotine and/or alcohol. These days it tends to be the various assortment of drugs found in pharmaceutical pills.

I disagree. Illeagal marijuana is easier to get than a prescription.

 

[JonM]

Kinda like what they said in the Ken Burns documentary "Prohibition:" The day after Prohibition ended it was much, much harder to get a drink than it was during.

 

[stpug]

I disagree. Illegal marijuana is easier to get than a prescription.

I didn't say "to get a prescription" <---that can be down-right impossible at times

 

[tgmartin000]

Separation of church and state is absolutely not a myth. Just because something isn't spelled out in the Constitution doesn't mean it's not a right. State established religion will never be constitutional, ihave no idea where you get that concept.

Regardless, utah's beer laws are ridiculous, to say the least. Are you an AHA member? I'm sure they're working to change the state's beer laws. If your not, you should join. One of their missions is to help with legislation.

 

[bleme]

Separation of church and state is absolutely not a myth. Just because something isn't spelled out in the Constitution doesn't mean it's not a right. State established religion will never be constitutional, ihave no idea where you get that concept.

Read it again. The Constitution is only about protecting the church from the State. There is no 'protection' of the State from the church.

 

[tgmartin000]

Sure there is, it cuts both ways. We have freedom from religion as well.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion" is pretty cut and dry. State establishment of religion is not constitutional.

Regardless, the laws in Utah are ridiculous and non-sensical. I know one major brewer used to refuse to distribute there since they couldn't keep the beer cold. Not sure if that's still the case, though.

 

[shortyz]

haha, sounds like canada.

 

[Weezy]

There's a reason the Mormons ended up in Utah. It's a barren wasteland and nobody else cared. Even the local Indians just let them settle there. They can have it.

 

[Murphys_Law]

There's a reason the Mormons ended up in Utah. It's a barren wasteland and nobody else cared. Even the local Indians just let them settle there. They can have it.

Ever been? The parks are amazing, Park City is a beautiful town.

 

[GPP33]

There's a reason the Mormons ended up in Utah. It's a barren wasteland and nobody else cared. Even the local Indians just let them settle there. They can have it.

About a third of Utah is a blah desert. The other two thirds is absolutely amazing desert and mountains. Utah probably has more variety than any other state including some of the best skiing, canyoniering, 4 wheeling, hiking and river running. The thought of someone from Pittsburg suggesting Utah is a wasteland blows my mind. You need to get out more bro. Utah is so good that I'll go there despite the silly booze laws.

 

[Weezy]

Oh the central mountain ridge area is beautiful, in a creepy 'I think this 16-year old girl is hot so maybe God said I can take another wife" kinda way.

 

[mashinary]

I like it here. I've lived in a few large cities around the world, and Salt Lake is nice place. I wouldn't say the liquor laws here are any weirder than the ones in Dublin Ireland or something like that. This is the view out of my office window...

 

[Weezy]

Sorry gang. I'm just being facetious....I just couldn't resist.

 

[Azbrewboy77]

Good new Utah ! I couldn't upload the url but here's a pic from ksl news

 

[MaryB]

You may be buzzed at .08, others are not. I participated in a test where we drank a beer then did reaction tests. I was fine up to .12 Why? Because alcohol doesn't react in my body like it does yours. I was considered safe to drive well past legal limit and it was .24 before they said I was impaired... Highway cops doing the test kept rechecking me on different meters because they didn't believe it. 2 others tested high also. My body processes alcohol into the waste stream very fast, that is why it doesn't affect me unless I hammer down beer fast.

You know a lot about Utah's alcohol laws, are you getting into the brewery/restaurant business? How easy are liquor license to acquire? Most of those are pretty dumb laws for sure. Too bad you have such a prominent religious presence in your state's political system; that seems to be the driving force. Separation of church and state?

Aside from the obvious flight-of-samplers, or those times when I was hammered in my 20s, I can't ever think of a time when I needed more than two beers in front of me. I guess that means that triangle tests are out

As far as I know, and I may be wrong, it's my understanding that the .08 alcohol limit is just a cutoff from being "innocent until proven..." to "guilty until proven...". Below that number, your are innocent first; above that number and you are guilty first. Since our brains should never be compromised while driving, the lowering to .05 seems like it should help to discourage "buzzed driving" and seems fair from the sense that we don't want to take lives because we HAD to drive after drinking. Quality public transportation is a savior here; I guess Uber/Lyft are also good options.

To me, this somehow feels soooo small and unimportant compared to other happenings taking place across the Divided States of America. It's like going on a boat with two leaks: one the size of a nail, the other the size of a basketball. While plugging both is important to avoid sinking, one should demand primary attention and focus while just ensuring the other doesn't get bigger. I guess that's what you're driving at in regards to contacting senators.

 

[Chesterbelloc]

restrictive laws changed despite Baptist pressures to keep us in the middle ages.

I thought it was Baptist pressures that took us out of the beer loving, knuckle dragging Middle Ages, and made us and gave us...

https://youtu.be/idLQ26P9dpQ

 

[Pantherjon]

You may be buzzed at .08, others are not. I participated in a test where we drank a beer then did reaction tests. I was fine up to .12 Why? Because alcohol doesn't react in my body like it does yours. I was considered safe to drive well past legal limit and it was .24 before they said I was impaired... Highway cops doing the test kept rechecking me on different meters because they didn't believe it. 2 others tested high also. My body processes alcohol into the waste stream very fast, that is why it doesn't affect me unless I hammer down beer fast.

Wow..And you were still able to function at .24?? In my 10 years of law enforcement the highest B.A. percentage I EVER saw was .22 and this man was falling down, etc..We were led to believe that anything approaching .25 and the person would more then likely be comatose..

I will have to remember that if I should ever meet you, to not challenge you to a drinking duel! LOL

Back on topic..Glad to see that Utah is finally making some changes in their alcohol laws!

 

[Thorsbrew]

Wow..And you were still able to function at .24?? In my 10 years of law enforcement the highest B.A. percentage I EVER saw was .22 and this man was falling down, etc..We were led to believe that anything approaching .25 and the person would more then likely be comatose..

I will have to remember that if I should ever meet you, to not challenge you to a drinking duel! LOL

Back on topic..Glad to see that Utah is finally making some changes in their alcohol laws!

That .08 always seemed very low to me as well considering thats only 2-3 beers. I certainly don't drink this way anymore but for a few years around age 20 i drank A LOT with friends. I wouldnt even begin to feel a buzz until my 5th to 6th beer and it was common for me to drink 10-12 in a party night. I think my max i had was probably around 18 and i was pretty **** faced drunk at that point but even then it wasnt to the point of passing out, just the world spinning

So i think that had to be well over a .25 considering each beer should be .03.

My brother in law is even more tolerant than i used to be. He tells me he doesnt drink beer anymore because itd take him 10 beers before he even felt anything, i only needed 5-6 hehe.

 

[MaryB]

Drink a beer, pee a beer... goes straight through lol yes I could function just fine, still walked a straight line, could touch my nose etc etc. I drive my doctor nuts because meds do not react like they are supposed to in me either...

Wow..And you were still able to function at .24?? In my 10 years of law enforcement the highest B.A. percentage I EVER saw was .22 and this man was falling down, etc..We were led to believe that anything approaching .25 and the person would more then likely be comatose..

I will have to remember that if I should ever meet you, to not challenge you to a drinking duel! LOL

Back on topic..Glad to see that Utah is finally making some changes in their alcohol laws!