Various Impacts on Beer Color

[TexasWine]

I’m currently reading Ray Daniels’ Designing Great Beers and have come across some very, very interesting things that I wanted to throw out there to you fine folks to see if the general consensus is that they still hold true today. All these items concern beer color.

A quote from Chapter 7, concerning the malt husk and grinding - “Color-producing polyphenols come primarily from the husk. Thus, the quantity of husk is obviously important. Also, the release of polyphenols from the husk is increased by breaking and grinding.” Daniels goes on to say that a brewer can select base malts with thinner, lighter husks and also utilize a coarser grind where color reduction is desired.

This raises a very interesting question. We often tout the advantage of using a fine grind with BIAB. Have any of you all noticed darker than expected beer using a very fine grind? I know that my beers will often be slightly darker than the commercial beer I am trying to emulate. But I have not narrowed it down to fine grind because there are other issues impacting color, addressed below.

Again, Chapter 7, how beer color is impacted by mash time – “As mash time increases, polyphenol extraction will rise. This indicates that mashes should be kept to a minimum schedule when color is critical.”

So maybe I’m offsetting the impacts of a fine grind with a short mash! For you folks that have recently swapped to a short mash, have your beers turned out any lighter?

Other quotes from Chapter 7, this time how oxidation impacts color – “…you must begin to worry about oxidizing those polyphenols that have been extracted into their color-producing form. This issue involves what is commonly referred to as hot-side aeration.” Daniels goes on to say that we should take care in exposing the mash or wort to excess air while it is hot, minimizing splashing while stirring the mash. “Aerating the hot mash and wort is an acknowledged source of color and staling compounds in beer.” “In advanced setups, pumps can be a source of unwanted aeration if they generate frothing in the hot wort or introduce air by cavitation.”

I’ve always heard HSA referenced in terms of off-flavors. Never have I heard anyone mention it could be causing darkening of my beer. If any of y’all no chill and generally get a good splashing about when transferring to the fermenter, do you notice your beer is any darker than one that might be comparable?

And also in Chapter 7, the standing time of the finished but hot wort and the presence of break material in the fermenter all impact color as well, darker with a longer stand and also if break material is present.

I know it’s a lot of info, but all these things were news to me. I’d love to hear what you all think.

 

[pricelessbrewing]

I can't said I've experienced any of those issues. I've found that the color of the mash changes rapidly, long before the mash is done. However I've always crushed fine as I have only done biab with a fine crush.

I've agitated my mash and boiling wort quite a lot to do I'll effect, I can't really get behind the idea of hsa at all. Pretty sure it's either a myth at the homebrew level, or else the amount of additional oxygen needed is difficult to reach at our level.

tldr; sounda like out of date information to me.

 

[botigol]

In regards to the fourth point: For my blonde ale, I did a hop stand for 30 mins in my boil kettle and then dumped the entire contents (break and all) into my fermenting bucket and kept it there for a month. I hit all three 'negative' aspects and it came out nice and light. So, although just one experience, I have a hard time believing that how long it sits hot on or off the break material or having break material in the fermenter, no matter how long, have any effect.

 

[TexasWine]

In regards to the fourth point: For my blonde ale, I did a hop stand for 30 mins in my boil kettle and then dumped the entire contents (break and all) into my fermenting bucket and kept it there for a month. I hit all three 'negative' aspects and it came out nice and light. So, although just one experience, I have a hard time believing that how long it sits hot on or off the break material or having break material in the fermenter, no matter how long, have any effect.

Thanks for the data point! I think before we can say whether your experience is one that would help disprove what Daniels says, or at least put it in the category of things we don't need to concern ourselves with, we'd have to do a side by side comparison with a batch that avoided these things. If the two beers came out the same color then we'd go in that direction. However if they were different colors, then what he says has merit.

I think Brulosopher did an HSA experiment not too long ago. I'll look to see if he noticed any color differences.

 

[Gavin C]

Interesting stuff TW. Might have to get a copy of that book. Sounds like a great read.

I reckon the aspects you mention will be subtle if present at all. Perhaps theoretical rather than detrimental on a home-brew scale.

Without side by side comparison or repeatedly hearing the same kind of thing from competition judges it would be hard to say. Color difference certainly makes sense in theory. Greater surface area of husks in the grist perhaps leading to that.

HSA. I think on a home-brew scale everything that has been looked at suggests it's bunk. I have seen posts by some old hands that kind of express a sigh of exasperation anytime HSA is mentioned.

Trub is certainly a point of debate and again one where there is likely a huge difference between commercial and home-brew concerns.

As a BIABer myself I make no effort to contain the cold break. I have recently started skimming hot break. It's easy and adds no time, also makes cleaning the pot a little easier at the end. Hops are taken care of with a spider. I use a double bag for my process so get minimal grain particulate in the brew it would seem.

Hot break

Hot Break Removed

Entering a few comps in the coming months with some recent brews. A Kolsch and a Munich Helles I brewed this am. I will be interested to see if I get hit for color, or other errors you mention. Will in all likelihood be useful feedback regardless. I will report back once I get some useful info.

Thanks again for sharing the points raised.

 

[TexasWine]

Interesting stuff TW. Might have to get a copy of that book. Sounds like a great read.

I reckon the aspects you mention will be subtle if present at all. Perhaps theoretical rather than detrimental on a home-brew scale.

Without side by side comparison or repeatedly hearing the same kind of thing from competition judges it would be hard to say. Color difference certainly makes sense in theory. Greater surface area of husks in the grist perhaps leading to that.

HSA. I think on a home-brew scale everything that has been looked at suggests it's bunk. I have seen posts by some old hands that kind of express a sigh of exasperation anytime HSA is mentioned.

Trub is certainly a point of debate and again one where there is likely a huge difference between commercial and home-brew concerns.

As a BIABer myself I make no effort to contain the cold break. I have recently started skimming hot break. It's easy and adds no time, also makes cleaning the pot a little easier at the end. Hops are taken care of with a spider. I use a double bag for my process so get minimal grain particulate in the brew it would seem.

Hot breakView attachment 287147

Hot Break RemovedView attachment 287148View attachment 287149

Entering a few comps in the coming months with some recent brews. A Kolsch and a Munich Helles I brewed this am. I will be interested to see if I get hit for color, or other errors you mention. Will in all likelihood be useful feedback regardless. I will report back once I get some useful info.

Thanks again for sharing the points raised.

Thanks for chiming in! Honestly, I doubt any one of these causes enough darkening of the beer to throw it out of spec for any particular category.

On the HSA thing, I totally agree it's probably bunk when it comes to impacting taste, at least on our scale. I had just never heard any conversation on its impact to color. But still, like I said, I doubt it's enough impact to throw it out of spec.