Using Weihenstephan 3068 without Wheat

[TenaciousJ]

Odd question, but has anyone ever used Weihenstephan for any other beer styles that don't include wheat or wheat malt? I'm thinking about using it for a beer with pilsner as the base malt and I'm wondering what it would yield.

Interested to hear any positive experiences.

Thanks!

 

[passedpawn]

Good question. A friend was just telling me that wheat is necessary to get the banana aroma (something like formic acid that is present in wheat). So, if he is right, then you might not get the same esters if you don't use wheat.

I would guess he's wrong, and you'll still get cloves and/or bubblegum and/or banana.

 

[TenaciousJ]

Good question. A friend was just telling me that wheat is necessary to get the banana aroma (something like formic acid that is present in wheat). So, if he is right, then you might not get the same esters if you don't use wheat.

I would guess he's wrong, and you'll still get cloves and/or bubblegum and/or banana.

thinking out loud, but maybe i could steep some flaked wheat to incorporate some wheat in the recipe....

 

[remilard]

He is wrong but what he probably meant is that ferulic acid is required for 4VG which is the clove component. Contrary to popular belief barley has more ferulic acid than wheat on average.

 

[eastoak]

Good question. A friend was just telling me that wheat is necessary to get the banana aroma (something like formic acid that is present in wheat). So, if he is right, then you might not get the same esters if you don't use wheat.

I would guess he's wrong, and you'll still get cloves and/or bubblegum and/or banana.

formic acid is made by ants, bees and other insects.

 

[passedpawn]

He is wrong but what he probably meant is that ferulic acid is required for 4VG which is the clove component. Contrary to popular belief barley has more ferulic acid than wheat on average.

Thanks Rem. That's what he said... I got it wrong.

Now that my memory is getting clearer, I think he was told this by a woman from the Seibel Institute. I guess someone is wrong here. Do you have reference for the ferulic content of wheat and barley? (I just looked and couldn't find numbers). Thanks.

 

[QuaffableQuips]

I can't speak for the Weihenstephan 3068 strain, but I accidentally made an amber ale with 3638 Bavarian Wheat. I ordered some wheat LME, but once I brewed it up, it was clear that I was accidentally shipped amber LME instead. The banana is definitely there, along with a little bubblegum. Little to nothing in the way of cloves, though this might be my own fault because I tend to ferment my hefes a little warmer than most.

I don't love the amber ale I made with 3638, but a lot of my friends like it a lot.

 

[johnpreuss]

You would be looking at a Damfbier. Check this Link: http://www.germanbeerinstitute.com/Dampfbier.html

Hope it helps

 

[TenaciousJ]

You would be looking at a Damfbier. Check this Link: http://www.germanbeerinstitute.com/Dampfbier.html

Hope it helps

funny, i just stumbled across this page moments ago. this is exactly what i was looking for. Thanks!

 

[TyTanium]

Reviving an old thread in the interest of results. Did you guys ever try this?

I want to brew:
100% Munich malt ~1.050
Hallertau or Tettenang to ~15IBU
3068 @66-68°

 

[Bosh]

Another necro. Am currently brewing up an American dampfbier with Hefeweizen yeast, pale malt and simcoe (bittering/flavor/aroma) and hallertau (flavor/aroma) hops. It's still very very green but tastes absolutely wonderful so far with the hops taking the lead. Not tasting too phenolic at all and having edible yeast that I don't have to worry about when I'm pouring the beer later.

 

[KatoBaggins]

Another necro. Am currently brewing up an American dampfbier with Hefeweizen yeast, pale malt and simcoe (bittering/flavor/aroma) and hallertau (flavor/aroma) hops. It's still very very green but tastes absolutely wonderful so far with the hops taking the lead. Not tasting too phenolic at all and having edible yeast that I don't have to worry about when I'm pouring the beer later.

Please post tasting notes!

 

[Bosh]

Please post tasting notes!

Will keep you posted. I life in an apartment and don`t really have a good system of temp control besides filling up w big kimchi bucket with water and bottles full of ice and floating the carboy in that so I`ll see how high temp-wise I can go with the yeast. So far so good.

 

[Qhrumphf]

Good question. A friend was just telling me that wheat is necessary to get the banana aroma (something like formic acid that is present in wheat). So, if he is right, then you might not get the same esters if you don't use wheat.

I would guess he's wrong, and you'll still get cloves and/or bubblegum and/or banana.

What you're thinking of is ferulic acid, and it's used to metabolize the clove phenol. Which is still present in barley.

And yes, Dampfbier.

Edit: whoops already covered years ago.

 

[Bosh]

Wait, looks like I was in slight error. I'm using Brewferm Blanche Wheat Yeast, which is not as similar as the yeast described upthread as I thought and is more of a white ale yeast than a hefeweizen yeast. Sorry, still working the rust off of the brewing bits of my brain after not having brewed anything for years and years due to kids.

But in any case, it's been cooler than expected but the yeast is eating its way through the barley malt very very well and I'm not really tasting much in the way of phenols at all. The simcoe hops seem to be masking anything that's there and is smells and tastes wonderful despite only having been fermenting for five days.

Apparently Brewferm Blanche Wheat Yeast has a cleaner taste than most other wheat ale yeasts and if it keeps on like this it's going to become my go-to yeast since it's taking the back seat to the hops in a very pleasant way and I don't have to deal with getting people who haven't had HB before drinking the yeast at the bottoms of the bottle since this yeast doesn't taste bitter.

Not sure about other wheat beer yeasts, but I couldn't be happier with this one. Still only five days until primary fermentation so too early to say for sure, but so far so good.

Next up I'll try a red ale and then a black ale with the same yeast and keep on trucking until it gets so hot that the heat ****s up my beer.

 

[Bosh]

OK, that'll teach me to judge beer based on fermenter samples. Stupid. Tastes utterly different than I was expecting, but not in a bad way.

Recipe:
20 liters (minus the precious liters younger son managed to dump on the floor thinking it was "orange juice")
3 kilos Light DME
No steeping grains (wanted something simple since I'm working off the rust from a long baby-induced brewing hiatus)
.4 oz Simcoe 60 min
.3 oz Simcoe 20 min
.3 oz Simcoe 10 min
.5 oz Hallertau 20 min
.5 oz Hallertau 10 min
Brewferm Blanche Wheat Yeast (not hefe, so a bit off topic for this thread but still a wheat beer yeast in a recipe with no wheat)

While in the fermenter the simcoe hops were utterly dominant and had a pretty strong bitter bite just days before I drank it that seemed to fade away almost completely in the last few days (or I was tasting yeast bitterness and being dumb and confusing it was bittering hop bitterness, really hard to tell with fermentor samples).

So for taste it comes across as kind of a summer wit. Phenols are dominant but not overpowering with a lot of sweetness (low attenuation from the yeast) with spice and a hint of citrus on the aftertaste. Not anywhere close to crisp but doesn't have the waxy mouth feel I sometimes get from Hoegaarden, doesn't have the weird flavors of Blue Moon or the black pepper (which I HATE, can't stand rye beers, so personal preference speaking here) I got from Allagash White. Kind of a wit beer for people who don't like wit beer. No off tastes or flaws that I could detect. Goes down real easy.

Only problem is I didn't carb it enough. Used priming guidelines for blond ales when apparently wit beers are generally carbed more than that which leaves the head a bit weak and the beer tasting just a bit flat.

SWMBO loved it and this one will go into the rotation with some recipe tweaks because:
-It's cheap and easy to make.
-Ready for drinking in 23 days, might even be able to drop down a bit.
-Wit yeast being much less bitter than standard ale yeasts it's good for giving away without having to give off-putting warning against "drinking the stuff at the bottom."
-Really easy to get BMC drinkers to try. For any parties or whatever I could serve people this can keep something with MOAR HOPS for myself.

I'd recommend tweaking the recipe a bit and filing in the "gotta brew something FAST for a wedding" binder.

 

[beersk]

Good question. A friend was just telling me that wheat is necessary to get the banana aroma (something like formic acid that is present in wheat). So, if he is right, then you might not get the same esters if you don't use wheat.

I would guess he's wrong, and you'll still get cloves and/or bubblegum and/or banana.

I think he meant Ferulic acid. But either way, no, he's wrong. I've brewed Dampfbier with hefe yeast and it's good. Nice refreshing style for late summer. Definitely don't be afraid to do it.

EDIT: damn, I just saw how old this post was that I responded to...oh well.