US-05 vs WY1056

[freisste]

First off, I've never used White Labs yeast, but I understand WLP001 is also identical...

I've heard a bunch of times that these three yeasts are the same strain and can be used interchangeably. As far as flavor goes, I've never noticed a difference, but I've also never done a true taste test.

What I really want to know is if anybody has ever used both and been disappointed in one or the other?

My story:
I used US-05 on my first batch and the beer was fantastic but gave severe headaches - I chalked it up to poor temp control leading to fusels. This first batch was "repeated" albeit a little differently (it was a slightly different all grain recipe instead of extract and I used WY1056).

Later I did two very similar pale ales and the US-05 version gave headaches where the WY1056 did not. In this case, I pitched two packs of rehydrated 05 because I didn't have time to do a starter (which I have used per yeastcalculator since early in my brewing career - about 2 years).

I just brewed another IPA (which I had REALLY high hopes for - lots of hops, interesting grain bill, water chemistry adjustments), but didn't plan well and didn't have time for a starter. Used rehydrated US-05 instead. Beer is great, headaches suck.

Why does US-05 give me headaches? I get that I didn't treat it correctly and I likely would have gotten fusels on that first batch no matter what yeast I used. But since then I have been pretty good to my yeast: good starters or I rehydrated and used cellcounts according to calculators, pitched just below fermentation temp and then slowly warmed into the fermentation range and then slowly warmed again to the top of the range when fermentation died down, used nutrient, shook and stirred a lot (no O2 system).

Does US-05 give anybody else headaches?? Is it just sensitive to something I am overlooking? Something that the "identical" WY1056 is less sensitive to? I'm at a loss.

Sorry for writing a novel.

 

[MikePote]

I brew half or more of my beers with US-05 and I can definitely say that I get no headaches from it. Although I have only been brewing about 9 months/20ish batches it is my favorite yeast. Super clean all the way up to 68+ degrees, fast, and cheap.

Although I have never done a side by side if you use the search at the top you will find that the general consensus is that there is no difference between 05, 001, and 1056.

 

[pablosbrewing]

pitched just below fermentation temp and then slowly warmed into the fermentation range

Mid 60's is the best temp for US-05, in my opinion. I shoot for 65F fermenter temp and have had good luck from 60-65F.

Edit - ideal range is listed as 59F to 71.6F on the Fermentis site. Outside of that all bets are off.

 

[freisste]

I brew half or more of my beers with US-05 and I can definitely say that I get no headaches from it. Although I have only been brewing about 9 months/20ish batches it is my favorite yeast. Super clean all the way up to 68+ degrees, fast, and cheap.



Although I have never done a side by side if you use the search at the top you will find that the general consensus is that there is no difference between 05, 001, and 1056.

Thanks for the post. I agree that it is clean, fast and cheap. All attributes I was looking for. In fact, it's great in every way, except that it has given me headaches

And I agree it is the consensus, I just wondered if anybody else has had the same experience as me, even if they thought they treated the yeast right.

 

[freisste]

Mid 60's is the best temp for US-05, in my opinion. I shoot for 65F fermenter temp and have had good luck from 60-65F.

Edit - ideal range is listed as 59F to 71.6F on the Fermentis site. Outside of that all bets are off.

Right. I cooled from boiling to 58-59 and pitched rehydrated yeast at the same (approximately) temp. Then I held at about 62 until activity slowed at which point I stopped tending to the swamp cooler and moved the beer upstairs to hit high 60s to low 70s. Maybe I moved it upstairs too soon and it only appeared fermentation had stopped. Didn't notice any further signs after moving it, though (not that "signs" mean much...).

 

[pablosbrewing]

Right. I cooled from boiling to 58-59 and pitched rehydrated yeast at the same (approximately) temp. Then I held at about 62 until activity slowed at which point I stopped tending to the swamp cooler and moved the beer upstairs to hit high 60s to low 70s. Maybe I moved it upstairs too soon and it only appeared fermentation had stopped. Didn't notice any further signs after moving it, though (not that "signs" mean much...).

Sounds like you had good ferment temps, higher temp rest at the end shouldn't be an issue I do that as well.

I'm sorry to hear it's giving you headaches.

 

[Conan]

S-05 is more or less my go-to strain as well, though I am starting to branch out. I very rarely make a starter for any yeast, and while I firmly believe in ferm-temp control I don't have the means for a good system, so I'm of the swamp cooler in the basement type. That said, I never get headaches from S-05 or any of my beer. I do get an almost splitting, short-term headache from a local brewery. It comes on as I drink the beer and nobody around me has gotten it. It's been a mystery to me, but may be the same thing causing your problems. Helpful, right? Haha. Kyle

 

[freisste]

S-05 is more or less my go-to strain as well, though I am starting to branch out. I very rarely make a starter for any yeast, and while I firmly believe in ferm-temp control I don't have the means for a good system, so I'm of the swamp cooler in the basement type. That said, I never get headaches from S-05 or any of my beer. I do get an almost splitting, short-term headache from a local brewery. It comes on as I drink the beer and nobody around me has gotten it. It's been a mystery to me, but may be the same thing causing your problems. Helpful, right? Haha. Kyle

That's exactly it! It feels like a hangover (in that if I shake my head as if to say 'no' I feel like my brain is going to fall out) but doesn't last nearly as long. It comes on about halfway through the first beer, so it's more like a reaction than an issue with dehydration.

Maybe blood sugar? But why with that yeast? Idk...totally at a loss.

And while you weren't particularly helpful in nailing down a cause, I feel great that someone has gone through what I've gone through. (But sorry about the headaches )

 

[KeninMN]

I just brewed an IPA with WY1056 and I let the fermentation temperature hit 76 F for the first three days, then dropped to 70 F for the last 11 days I left it in primary. (I don't have a temperature control chamber, and we just experienced the first prolonged stretch of higher temperature weather here in the Great State of Minnesota.) When I transferred to secondary in preparation for dry hopping I sampled it for FG, color, clarity and flavor. This yeast attenuated properly and fermented cleanly, with no off flavors and no indication of fusel alcohols ("hot" alcohol taste.) In fact, it tasted so good I drank the entire gravity sample! (I use a hydrometer to measure gravity.) One note is that I did make a yeast starter 36 hours prior to pitching, as the yeast had been harvested from a previous batch of Cream Ale and had been in my refrigerator for two months.

 

[bobeer]

I love American ales so I pretty much only use sa05 and I've never had any headache issues. I've used washed yeast, with/without starters, fresh new yeast, slurry, etc... all with no headaches.

Hopefully you'll find out what the deal asap!

 

[Reno_eNVy]

I love American ales so I pretty much only use sa05 and I've never had any headache issues. I've used washed yeast, with/without starters, fresh new yeast, slurry, etc... all with no headaches.

Hopefully you'll find out what the deal asap!

I've also used it in all forms with no headaches. That is a real mystery.

Actually about to use this on a Cascadian Dark Ale. Grain bill is modeled after New Belgiums Snow Day (god I miss that one) and the hop schedule is modeled after Green Flash West Coast IPA.

I might call it "Green Flash in the Dark"



But yeah, point of the story is I like US-05

 

[teleplucker]

Hmm...I've had a couple headaches in the last two weeks after drinking home brew w/US-05. I almost never get headaches and chalked it up to seasonal allergies. I'm going to pay attention next time I drink a bottle from these batches. OTOH, that was two bottles out of twelve (although, perhaps they were bottles were I didn't pour as carefully and had more yeast in the glass).

More research is needed...I may have to drink beer!

 

[Reno_eNVy]

More research is needed...I may have to drink beer!

Collecting more data is never a bad call.

TO SCIENCE!

 

[freisste]

I may need to repeat some of my own experiments

Honestly, though - that may not be a bad idea. After reading everyone's responses, I'm wondering how scientific my conclusion is. I certainly didn't set up a DOE of any sort, it's really just anecdotal evidence.

And for the record, I never meant to bash US-05. If anything, the issue is with me, not the yeast. I really just wondered if anybody had some little known piece of information. Something like "US-05 is identical to WY1056 and WLP001 aside from its tendency to throw fusels if XYZ unlikely situation occurs." And that XYZ happens to be part of my process.

 

[Weezy]

Sounds like an acute allergic reaction to something in the beer. It could be something created by the yeast, as well as any number of other things.

I get flush from Brett beers occasionally.

 

[Ramitt]

Have you tried other dry yeast and not gotten HAs?

 

[Calichusetts]

I'd go with allergies or possibly dehydration? How much water are you drinking each day vs. beer or coffee?

 

[dand]

I have never noticed headaches from 05 specifically, but there are a few beers that are popular here locally that i can't drink more than 1 or 2 of without getting a headache, and these were all commercial beers, so accidently mixing in yest from the bottle weren't the issue.
I wasn't too worried about it since they are terrible beers, even for commercial stuff, but i guess just skip US-05 and continue on.

 

[freisste]

Have you tried other dry yeast and not gotten HAs?

Actually, I have not. Does anybody know of anything specifically used in dry yeast vs liquid? I never thought about it, but if they are processed with something to ensure viability after drying, maybe one of those stabilizers affects me?

 

[freisste]

I'd go with allergies or possibly dehydration? How much water are you drinking each day vs. beer or coffee?

Probably not enough. But I drink other beers without issue, so I didn't put too much thought into it. I'll try to get good and hydrated before trying one again. We'll see what happens.

And this isn't specific to you, Cali. Really just in general. Sorry to everyone about my vague answers. I'm realizing more and more that I am probably incorrectly blaming US-05 based on evidence that is anecdotal at best.

A colleague just told me about his favorite quote from War and Peace which he loves from an engineering/problem solving point of view:

The human mind cannot grasp the causes of phenomena in the aggregate, but the desire to find those causes is implanted in man's soul. And without considering the multiplicity and complexity of the conditions any one of which taken separately may seem to be the cause, he snatches at the first approximation to a cause that seems to him intelligible and says: "This is the cause!"
-Tolstoy

(Now I don't have to read a book for at least a year or two.)

 

[bobeer]

I've also used it in all forms with no headaches. That is a real mystery.

Actually about to use this on a Cascadian Dark Ale. Grain bill is modeled after New Belgiums Snow Day (god I miss that one) and the hop schedule is modeled after Green Flash West Coast IPA.

I might call it "Green Flash in the Dark"



But yeah, point of the story is I like US-05

I dig that name man! Hope it turns out.

 

[YeastFeast]

The human mind cannot grasp the causes of phenomena in the aggregate, but the desire to find those causes is implanted in man's soul. And without considering the multiplicity and complexity of the conditions any one of which taken separately may seem to be the cause, he snatches at the first approximation to a cause that seems to him intelligible and says: "This is the cause!"
-Tolstoy

Nice, I like it!

 

[Setesh]

One thing I noticed is that pitching 2 packs of properly hydrated US-05 into a pale ale is definitely over pitching. Over pitching will stress the yeast. Maybe that is causing the US-05 to produce some compound that your proper pitch rate WY1056 starter did not. If you are sensitive to said compound then you would have a problem with the US-05 beer but not the WY1056 one. Thoughts?

 

[freisste]

One thing I noticed is that pitching 2 packs of properly hydrated US-05 into a pale ale is definitely over pitching. Over pitching will stress the yeast. Maybe that is causing the US-05 to produce some compound that your proper pitch rate WY1056 starter did not. If you are sensitive to said compound then you would have a problem with the US-05 beer but not the WY1056 one. Thoughts?

Makes sense. I'll keep this in mind when using dry yeast and be more careful about over pitching. I've been a little cavalier in my "the risk of over pitching is smaller than the risk of under pitching" attitude. Obviously I need an attitude adjustment.

Thanks for the comment. I knew coming here would get a good discussion going and generate ideas I haven't thought of.

 

[rodwha]

I have not noticed headaches either.

I used WLP 001 for nearly 2 years, but have since used US-05 a few times and like it. What I notice as the difference is that US-05 sits more compacted on the bottom of the bottle vs 001. I get more of my beer into my glass using 05. So there does seem to be some difference in them.