no worries, assuming your depth is good. the inside of a buried conduit is considered a wet environment per code so with the properly rated conductors, all good, your electrician week let you know what you need to do.
Upgrading the brew shed - adding 240v - go 30amps or 50amps?
- Thread starter cannman
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no worries, assuming your depth is good. the inside of a buried conduit is considered a wet environment per code so with the properly rated conductors, all good, your electrician week let you know what you need to do.
Beernip
Well-Known Member
You're just going to have to do a bunch more hand digging around the irrigation pipes.
The electrician came over and we have a game plan!
We will be running 125amps to the brewshed.
We will be going 50 amps 240 GFCI (although he was worried that the heating element which pulls about 46 amps (so I read) tripping the GFCI...).
There will be at least 4 isolated 120v 20amp ports inside, 2 isolated 120v 20 amp ports in the ceiling (for the negative pressure room, swamp, cooler, and lighting), 1 120v outdoor (greenhouse), and 1 30 amp 120v outdoor (RV).
I've got a shopping list that I will begin pricing tonight, a 90' trench to dig, irrigation to bypass, oh and summer is right around the corner... lol Anyone want to help me dig for $10 an hour and beer??
We will be running 125amps to the brewshed.
We will be going 50 amps 240 GFCI (although he was worried that the heating element which pulls about 46 amps (so I read) tripping the GFCI...).
There will be at least 4 isolated 120v 20amp ports inside, 2 isolated 120v 20 amp ports in the ceiling (for the negative pressure room, swamp, cooler, and lighting), 1 120v outdoor (greenhouse), and 1 30 amp 120v outdoor (RV).
I've got a shopping list that I will begin pricing tonight, a 90' trench to dig, irrigation to bypass, oh and summer is right around the corner... lol Anyone want to help me dig for $10 an hour and beer??
You can calculate it from your power bill. Find the total kWh usage for the month. Multiply that by 1000 to convert to Wh. Divide that number by 720h in a month. That is your average connected load in Watts. Now divide by 240V and you have your average current draw. I bet it's way less than 10A. I am drinking beer so my maths may not be at optimum but it's something like that.
The electrician came over and we have a game plan!
We will be running 125amps to the brewshed.
We will be going 50 amps 240 GFCI (although he was worried that the heating element which pulls about 46 amps (so I read) tripping the GFCI...).
There will be at least 4 isolated 120v 20amp ports inside, 2 isolated 120v 20 amp ports in the ceiling (for the negative pressure room, swamp, cooler, and lighting), 1 120v outdoor (greenhouse), and 1 30 amp 120v outdoor (RV).
I've got a shopping list that I will begin pricing tonight, a 90' trench to dig, irrigation to bypass, oh and summer is right around the corner... lol Anyone want to help me dig for $10 an hour and beer??
Sounds like a good plan. I'm an electrician. I only have 100A to my brewshop. I'm kinda jealous now
. Consider aluminum wire for the panel feeder. I did mine direct burial aluminum. No conduit and much cheaper than copper.@lschiavo can you show me a product on Homedepot.com that would cover the 125 amp feed from the main box in aluminum? Racking up the bill here, need to consider some costs...
I'm wondering is 2/0 copper matched amp for amp with AL 2/0
Racking up the bill here, need to consider some costs...I'm wondering is 2/0 copper matched amp for amp with AL 2/0
@lschiavo can you show me a product on Homedepot.com that would cover the 125 amp feed from the main box in aluminum?
I'm wondering is 2/0 copper matched amp for amp with AL 2/0
This would work: http://m.homedepot.com/p/Southwire-500-ft-2-0-2-0-2-0-1-Balck-Stranded-Al-USE-MHF-Cable-28713601/202316460
The 4-wire cable is called URD. You could also use individual USE conductors which can be easier to pull through conduit. Home depot pricing is usually pretty good but it wouldn't hurt to see if your electrician can do better.
No. the ampacity of copper and aluminum are different. Aluminum generally needs to be a size or two bigger.
On the topic of USE:
I found this listing for USE Al 2/0
And this chart that shows amperage based on material
So if I buy the 500ft big spool (I need to cover a distance of about 90'), I could use this one wire to made the proper connections...? I'm sold if this is the case. CU was in the $700s....
Results
1 conductors per phase utilizing a #2/0 Aluminum conductor will limit the voltage drop to 3.06% or less when supplying 125.0 amps for 90 feet on a 120 volt system.
For Engineering Information Only:
135.0 Amps Rated ampacity of selected conductor
0.16 Ohms Resistance (Ohms per 1000 feet)
0.043 Ohms Reactance (Ohms per 1000 feet)
6.0 volts maximum allowable voltage drop at 5%
3.662. Actual voltage drop loss at 3.06% for the circuit
0.9 Power Factor
That should work although the ground can be smaller. I believe 4 aluminum. Not only makes the pull easier, it's much easier to terminate on the ground bar. You should be able to have the store make cuts for you.
This would be fine around here. I don't know your local codes. you may want to run everything past your electrician before you buy anything.
The thing is that this wire is a real deal at 500'. If I buy by the foot it becomes really expensive. So I figure that if I already have the 360' out of the spool, why buy another ground wire and just cut one from the 2/0 spool.
We're pulling through 1 1/2"
Everything will be run past the electrician. I was pricing the order last night and he listed #2 copper for the main load, but, thanks to you and Al, I'm happy to present to him this option. I just like to get my ducks in line and hit him hard with questions in one swoop. Makes his SWMBO also more tolerant of the "I wish you weren't working for beer!" discount.
One other small bit: I've never seen a plug with this shape: Will I ever in the US??
Be aware that aluminum wiring has some maintenance over time. It is more susceptible to thermal movement. You will want to have an electrician tighten the lugs in the box from time to time to avoid arcing from loose wires. I'm not sure the proper schedule. I believe there are special lugs with springs in them made for aluminum wire. This can help mitigate the need to tighten them as much.
The thing is that this wire is a real deal at 500'. If I buy by the foot it becomes really expensive. So I figure that if I already have the 360' out of the spool, why buy another ground wire and just cut one from the 2/0 spool.
We're pulling through 1 1/2"
Everything will be run past the electrician. I was pricing the order last night and he listed #2 copper for the main load, but, thanks to you and Al, I'm happy to present to him this option. I just like to get my ducks in line and hit him hard with questions in one swoop. Makes his SWMBO also more tolerant of the "I wish you weren't working for beer!" discount.
One other small bit: I've never seen a plug with this shape: Will I ever in the US??
The conduit can't be too big. USE Is a little sticky too. I would consider 2". Not much price difference probably.
That would be a 5-20 plug. I use some on a few of my woodworking tools.http://www.webstaurantstore.com/all-points-38-1317-plug-nema-5-20p/AP381317.html?utm_source=Google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=GoogleShopping&gclid=CjwKEAjwm8-6BRDgnb-Dk96UmRASJADbMycY2CbJjO2lUoFit6oOtdlJg5f4oZOPEfXGfvflRR8zlhoCXBLw_wcB
Good point. Make sure to use inhibitor on the connections. Small issue for the cost savings IMO.
These can help if your lugs are too small for 2/0: in the right size of course...
http://www.toolfetch.com/morris-products-90994-offset-solid-pin-terminal-connectors-750-mcm-to-500-mcm.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cse&utm_term=MO-90994&gclid=CjwKEAjwm8-6BRDgnb-Dk96UmRASJADbMycYCoNMzJNvuEoX-5iiTURYLgIpSq05PME5NjxtNm7OhxoCY2vw_wcB
http://www.toolfetch.com/morris-products-90994-offset-solid-pin-terminal-connectors-750-mcm-to-500-mcm.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cse&utm_term=MO-90994&gclid=CjwKEAjwm8-6BRDgnb-Dk96UmRASJADbMycYCoNMzJNvuEoX-5iiTURYLgIpSq05PME5NjxtNm7OhxoCY2vw_wcB
there should be no 'maintenance' with aluminum conductors. today's aluminum is not the shoddy stuff from the 70s. important thing is that the termination lugs are appropriate for aluminum. there should be some text somewhere on the terminal such as CU7AL or CU9AL, indicating the terminal is acceptable for use with copper or aluminum conductors, rated 75 degree C or 90 degree C, respectively. as others have noted, you need a larger aluminum conductor when compared to copper to safely carry the same amps so even though the termination may be rated to accept aluminum conductors, make sure it is large enough to accept the size you are using. this should all be listed on the breaker or lugs, whatever you are terminating the conductors on.
and absolutely ask your electrician about it, he/she should be able to let you know what you need.
and absolutely ask your electrician about it, he/she should be able to let you know what you need.
Just for reference, I checked my cost from the supply house this morning: $0.55 for 2/0, $0.20 for #4. That's cut to length.
So before I spend $$$ to electrify by brew day, how do I handle a scenario like this:
RIMS Rocket runs at 240v, 14.6 amps. The manufacturer recommends a 20amp GFCI
My electric port will be 240v with a 50 amp GFCI.
How do I run the RIMS Rocket within specifications?
RIMS Rocket runs at 240v, 14.6 amps. The manufacturer recommends a 20amp GFCI
My electric port will be 240v with a 50 amp GFCI.
How do I run the RIMS Rocket within specifications?
Are you planning to run it off of your control panel?
If I decide to go this route, it would be a Tower of Power... so yes?
If you plug it in to your control panel it will be gfci protected by your 50A gfci breaker. Otherwise, you could add a dedicated 20A gfci receptacle separate from the controller.
kal
Well-Known Member
When you say "port" I assume you mean wall receptacle.
When I did my basement and included my electric brewery and wanted to power my 30A panel, I had the electrician pull wire rated to 50A, just in case. The breaker is 30A as is the wall receptacle, but the wire is 50A because that can't be changed easily once drywall is up.
So for now I brew with my 30A panel on my 20 gallon kettles to make 10 gallons kegged.
If ever want to go to a 50A back to back setup or bigger kettles, the wiring in the walls can accommodate. I simply have to replace the 30A breaker with a 50A, and replace the 30A wall receptacle with a 50A. (And change the control panel, kettles, and so forth too of course).
Long story short: Pull 50A wire if you think you may want to one day use 50A *if* the wire's not easily accessible.
Kal
@kal
Blichmann Engineering was nice enough to write me back and confirmed that their RIMS Rocket would work on 30 or 50 amps. I was also educated to realize that the GFCI was tracking erroneous flows of electricity and this has no direct correlation to my question.
ANYhow. Priced out the electrical build to about $800 in parts and supplies, $900 if I'm a lazy ass and don't dig the 100' trench myself. With father's day just around the corner, I've already collected $430 in Home Depot gift cards so even if Sunday is not as fruitful, I think we can move forward immediately in August (scheduling) and finally start brewing.
I'm also thinking of installing necessary items make the entire building negative pressure with hepa filtering to play with some open fermentation fantasies of mine.
No one knows yet, but I'm BBQing tomorrow...
Blichmann Engineering was nice enough to write me back and confirmed that their RIMS Rocket would work on 30 or 50 amps. I was also educated to realize that the GFCI was tracking erroneous flows of electricity and this has no direct correlation to my question.
ANYhow. Priced out the electrical build to about $800 in parts and supplies, $900 if I'm a lazy ass and don't dig the 100' trench myself. With father's day just around the corner, I've already collected $430 in Home Depot gift cards so even if Sunday is not as fruitful, I think we can move forward immediately in August (scheduling) and finally start brewing.
I'm also thinking of installing necessary items make the entire building negative pressure with hepa filtering to play with some open fermentation fantasies of mine.
No one knows yet, but I'm BBQing tomorrow...
You can run a 15A appliance on a 50A circuit. But it won't be protected for overload faults below "50A". So I would suggest a 20A breaker to feed that device, and the 50A breaker upstream. The GFI is ground fault, so really only the 50A would need it.
i dug the trench out to our sauna, about 150 ft. no raceway so i had to go 24" deep. i debated renting a trencher but had 2 or 3 irrigation lines i would have had to cross. i opted to go the full hand route since our soil is pure sand. once i got through the top 10-12 inches of grass/topsoil, it couldn't have been easier. no roots, no rocks. nothing. it was 'polish the shovel and wheelbarrow' type of sand.
all that being said, i would have probably hired someone for $100. if you have roots, rocks, etc., hiring seems to be the way to go. one main reason i did it was i didn't want someone else tearing up the lawn and making a mess.
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