Understanding AG a little better

[Bootleg_rick]

So I've done maybe 6 or 7 AG mashes in the last year and I always get minimal fermentation and I could never understand why because my ABV would read 7% but I would only get 3% fermentation, I think I figured out why. The first mistake I made was oven drying, my oven only goes to 170 F and even with the door open the grain would get to 130 which isn't preferable when drying I'll assume, maybe for kilning but that seems to high for drying. The second was I didn't kiln the grain, just partially dried it and got it really hot. the next was hitting it with to high of a strike temp being 160 I think to get a 156 temp range I forget didn't wright down the exact recipe in a easy to find place, after some extensive reading I found that beta amylase make's more fermentable sugars then alpha, so any fermentable sugars were quickly formed from the quick heat then the beta was denatured and I think that's where my problem was. the very last thing was I never actually geletanized the starches and was using a full malt grain bill, I will mention again I never actually kilned the malt and from what I read the starches pre-geletanise during kilning, I could be wrong but this is the information I have gathered. I have better equipment now I have a box fan to properly dry the grain with, I have a electric smoker to kiln it if I chose and I may take some non malted grain and geletanize the starches, cool to 139 F add the barley malt, then maintain the temperature till the mash thins and I'm happy with the iodine test results.

My goal is for a dry ferment with absolutely no sugars, the recipe shouldn't matter for my situation since it really comes down to my method. ph however would change alot but i can't get my hands on any acids for quite some time.

 

[RPh_Guy]

You know you don't need to malt/dry/kiln the grain yourself, right?

Almost everyone buys grain malted and leaves the malting to the professionals. All you need to do is "mash" it.

You said your goal is a dry beer. You don't need to make your own malt to do that.

You can't get your hands on lactic acid, phosphoric acid, or acidulated malt? Do you live in a country that prohibits alcohol?

 

[Bootleg_rick]

I live in Canada and we still need to figure out how the hell shipping works up here. malt is 5 bucks a pound in my town and grain is 10 bucks for 50 pounds right from my cousin. I don't mind the work of malting and I'm not paying the price for so little malt. I posted this because i want to know if my processes is correct. I have gotten full conversion with my own malt just little ferment-ability. I blame my drying methods but it could be my mash temp

 

[RPh_Guy]

That sucks man.

156°F should produce moderate fermentability. 150 would be more fermentable.
BTW, a negative iodine test doesn't mean the enzymes are done working. Extending the mash time would almost definitely help.

I know there are other threads here about malting but it's not something I've done.

 

[Bootleg_rick]

I'm doing this in 20 gallon batches on the grain, I figure I'm only going to let it hover around the temp for alpha wrap the fermenter and let it cool to pitching temp. I don't use the iodine to see if the enzymes are done working I use it to check for starch content. I tried 156 and it didn't net me much ferment-ability but a little more then my older strategy

 

[yeahfairly]

Sorry....maybe a silly question but you don't mention this process above.... How are you germinating prior to drying?

 

[RPh_Guy]

As a single infusion, 149-150 should give the most fermentable wort. Mashing higher reduces fermentability.
Extending mash time increases fermentability but after 2-3 hours the enzymes fully denature so extending beyond 3 hours probably isn't beneficial.

 

[Bootleg_rick]

I first take my grain and rinse it to remove dirt and what not, cold water around 10 C is preferred. then i soak it for 7 hours pour off the water. Ltet it breath for 5 hours, soak it again for another 7 (this is for barley other grains may differ is different) you want to let it sit dry every so often because like us grains like oxygen and give of C02, I usually lay them out on my malting trays when letting them breath so it gets consistent oxygen and it may be wise to stir a few times while breathing this will ensure a more consistent germination and you may want to improve it. After its done swelling I put it in the malting tray or you could put it on the floor on top of a large plastic sheet (do this only if your single) then maintain a temperature lower then 25 C or it will go bad if you don't stir enough; a good ideal is to keep it between 10-20 C. after you lay it out no more then one inch high put a damp sheet towel or pillowcase on it and keep it viodant of the sun. You must stir it every so often to disburse heat build up and keep the roots from tangleing, check the length of the acrospire after 2 days commonly after stirring the grain and once the average is 2/3 of the length of the grain begin drying by setting it out in the sun or make a wooden frame with a screen to hold the grain after some hours and the outside of the grain feels dry take your grain and put it in a garbage bag and press all the air out of it before tieing it off let that sit for a while(take a nap and put it under the covers with you it sounds weird but it makes the grain dry more evenly) after some time pour it back in the drying tray. once you can chew a grain and its dry and has a crispiness or a crunch its ready for kilning or it can be ground up for pure use as malt.

 

[Bootleg_rick]

One very important thing I forgot. Before you kiln it put it in a dry fabric bag and shake the damn thing like your Elvis then pour it from container to container on a windy day. This gets rid of the sprouts and chaff may even dehusk it. you will want to do it after kilning but instead hit it on something to dehusk it as good as possible. This is for barley for corn and other grains you only need to shake/smack it once.

 

[shoengine]

I would have to be single and childless to afford that much time. Good on you, though. I always found malting to be really interesting, just isn't anything I would be able to do.

 

[yeahfairly]

Tough Topic..... It sounds like your germination process is spot on...... Drying time could be excessive and lead to degradation..... Pale Malts are usually kilned to 170 or higher..... Like everything else in this hobby.... it's a matter of dialing in your process.... Hopefully some of the more experienced maltsters will chime in with their 2 cents!

 

[Bootleg_rick]

I only do a 24 hour drying period for 5 pounds of barley, once I get my setup all done I'll be able to do a 50 pound bag at a time. The reason I plan this is because its hot in the summer but perfect in the winter

 

[RM-MN]

Interested in an experiment? Malted barley (commercially malted) should contain enough enzymes to convert the starches in nearly double its weight in non-malted barley. Try a batch with half your malted barley with half commercially malted and see what your results are.