uh oh..flattie :-(

[mrchicken]

Experimental Dunkel recipe.
3 Lbs of Briess Barvarian Wheat DME
2 Lbs of Rahr White Wheat Malt (cracked)
1 Lb Weyerman Dark Wheat Malt (Cracked)
½ Lb Weyerman Chocolate Wheat Malt (Cracked)
1 Oz Hallertau Hops for 60 minute boil

Sg 1.049 FG 1.016
Used the priming calculator for a dunkelweiss. Said use .88 cup or 14 tablespoons corn sugar for a priming carbonation of 3.2 vols.

Its been sitting between 69 and 74 Since January 21. just under 3 weeks (edit). Chilled and Cracked two tonight and both are almost flat. No head when pouring. Only a whisker of bubbles around the edges of the glass. This is my second wheat beer that is undercarbed with poor carbonation.
Any suggestions on what I am doing wrong?

 

[shortyz]

keep em at room temp for another week, see what happens.

 

[BeerAddikt]

Are you sure the priming sugar got mixed in evenly? I had a batch once where I did a poor job of mixing in the priming sugar, 2/3 of the batch was flat and 1/3 was over-carbed, borderline gushers.

 

[Kent88]

So both low carbonation and poor foam retention. I believe those problems can be independent of each other, unless it is completely flat, then you wont have any foam to retain.

Try some carbonation tabs and see if you can at least make it work that way. I remember when I first started I had a really tough time with foam retention, but bottle carbonation should just be a matter of adding sugar and waiting. I still use carb tabs/drops and unless I start kegging I don't really see a reason to change that.

Maybe this could help (podcast featuring Bamforth)? Here is another BeerSmith blurb about foam.

I'm not sure if this would have anything to do with it, but that looks like kind of a high FG. Are you just using the wheat as a steeping grain? Someone with more experience brewing with wheat, should those be mashed properly with a base malt? I usually have base malt with wheat.

Only other thing I can think of is are you sure the caps are sealing on well enough? I really doubt that would be the problem, though.

 

[tgolanos]

What kind of bottles are you using? All of the beers I have in my swing tops have very little head, but my crown seal bottles carb up fine. Also, how are you priming? Are you adding sugar to each bottle or are you batch priming? If batch priming, I usually wait at least an hour before beginning to bottle to allow the sugar to disperse. This seems to give me the best results.

@kent88 I'm pretty sure wheat has enough diastatic power to self convert. I've never steeped it, but mash it frequently with pils malt. Most of my weizens are 70-30% wheat/pils and they seem to convert fine.

 

[mrchicken]

From my notes.
Grains Mashed for 60 minutes at 170 strike temp. Added bag of grains then checked temp...166' Lid on at 164' and timer started. Ending temp 153'
Added DME brought to a boil, added Hops and boiled for 60 minutes.
Beginning SG 1.049 Yeast added at 62' f.

I batch primed by boiling the sugar in a cup of water let cool to about 78' and put in bottling bucket. Racked beer from primary into bottling bucket making sure that the flow of beer created a circular current to help mix in the priming sugar.

 

[frozengator]

Question on this. If you use carb drops, how do you sanatize them? I saw a different post where someone said they used domino sugar cubes.

 

[oceanic_brew]

From my notes.
Grains Mashed for 60 minutes at 170 strike temp. Added bag of grains then checked temp...166' Lid on at 164' and timer started. Ending temp 153'
Added DME brought to a boil, added Hops and boiled for 60 minutes.
Beginning SG 1.049 Yeast added at 62' f.

I batch primed by boiling the sugar in a cup of water let cool to about 78' and put in bottling bucket. Racked beer from primary into bottling bucket making sure that the flow of beer created a circular current to help mix in the priming sugar.

Hold on a sec... not related to carbonation (maybe) but you mashed at 164?

 

[MSUCatBrewer]

Hold on a sec... not related to carbonation (maybe) but you mashed at 164?

What's the correct mash temp?

 

[RM-MN]

What's the correct mash temp?

Conversion starts (slowly) at 145 and continues up to about 160. Above 160 the enzymes are quickly denatured so you get little conversion or conversion from starch to unfermentable sugars. The recommended range is 148 to 160.

That has little to do with carbonation. When you add pure sugar the yeast will eat it up and give off CO2. That happens quickly and if your bottles seal you should have carbonation within 24 hours. The compounds that create the head on your beer take longer to form. Expect heading to be starting at about a week and improving from there on out for the next 2 to 3 weeks.

When you pop the top on your bottles you should hear the sound of the carbonation. If not, your bottles aren't sealed.

 

[mrchicken]

Thanks for the info.

I was following a recipe that said to use a strike temp of 170 (flame out), dump the grains in, stir/agitate to make sure they are all good and wet then measure temp again as it will drop. Recipe said to try and keep temp at or slightly above 150'. Is that wrong? I figured if I put the lid on the pot at 160 it would help hold temp and keep me at or above 150'.

Bottles are sealed with a little carbonation but not much and even if I goofed the mash, it should be carbonated watery beer from the priming sugar.....Right???

Another ?.... If I goofed the mash, then it makes sense not to have a good head on the beer since the grain didn't do what it was supposed to do...??

 

[RM-MN]

Thanks for the info.

I was following a recipe that said to use a strike temp of 170 (flame out), dump the grains in, stir/agitate to make sure they are all good and wet then measure temp again as it will drop. Recipe said to try and keep temp at or slightly above 150'. Is that wrong? I figured if I put the lid on the pot at 160 it would help hold temp and keep me at or above 150'.

Bottles are sealed with a little carbonation but not much and even if I goofed the mash, it should be carbonated watery beer from the priming sugar.....Right???

Another ?.... If I goofed the mash, then it makes sense not to have a good head on the beer since the grain didn't do what it was supposed to do...??

I'm going to guess that the recipe you used was designed for a conventional mash tun which would have used a lower ratio of water to grain and thus would require the higher strike temp. You cannot just use the temperature someone else used because how the grains lower the strike temp to the mash temp depends on the quantitiy of the water, the weight of the grains, and the desired mash temp. With my system, I often have a strike temp of about 161 but that probably would not be correct for your batch. Use a strike temp calculator and be precise as possible on the quantity of water and the weight and temperature of the grains. I often use this one but there are others available too. http://www.tastybrew.com/calculators/infusion.html

When you add the correct amount of priming sugar and have it mixed in well, if the bottles seal you get the proper amount of carbonation. If the temperature is stable in the low 70's the bottles will have pressure within a day or 2. If not it is a problem with the seal.

Lack of heading on your beer has two possible causes. First is not enough time in the bottles. Often you will see a recommendation to wait 3 weeks before opening a bottle. It takes about this amount of time for the heading compounds to form so opening one too soon gets you a beer that doesn't form a head. The second cause is soap residue in the glassware. That can happen with too much soap when washing the bottles and not rinsing them thoroughly or it can be in your serving glassware. Quite often the culprit is the anti-spotting agent in a dishwasher as it is applied right at the end of the wash to keep from getting water spots and it is a detergent. Wash your glassware by hand very well and rinse it 2 or 3 times to see if this is the problem area. The heading on the beer is caused by the proteins and shouldn't be affected by your too high mash temp.

 

[mrchicken]

RM-MN thanks for a really excellent reply. I learned a lot and will add your suggestions to my notes for last time.

So, to be clear, I should try and keep my mash temp right around 150'. Is that for all grains? or do you use different temps for Wheat and Barley ? Is it ok to turn the flame back on if your mash temp gets too low?

I want to get my next one right.

 

[RM-MN]

RM-MN thanks for a really excellent reply. I learned a lot and will add your suggestions to my notes for last time.

So, to be clear, I should try and keep my mash temp right around 150'. Is that for all grains? or do you use different temps for Wheat and Barley ? Is it ok to turn the flame back on if your mash temp gets too low?

I want to get my next one right.

The mash temperature you choose within the range of 148 to 160F will change the beer you eventually get as the low temperature favors beta amylase which makes more fermentable wort which in turn gets you thinner beer. The higher temperature is advantageous to alpha amylase which then gets you a beer with more body. For the bulk of my beers I tend to use 152 to 155 as my mash temp as this is a compromise and makes beer I like.

The enzymes that do the conversion from starch to sugar are the same for all the grains. If you like a crisp wheat beer you would choose a low mash temp. If you like your beers to be "chewy" you mash high regardless of the grains.

If your grains are milled well the bulk of the conversion will happen quickly enough that you probably don't need to add heat. If you do add heat the mash must be stirred continuously to avoid getting part of the mash too warm and denaturing the enzymes you need for conversion. I don't recommend it.

 

[mrchicken]

Wow. Im learning a lot from my mistakes. For most beers I like some body but I can see doing a crisp summer brew would be better with a lower mash temp. Thanks again for the excellent info. This is slowly starting to make sense.