trying to fix my S'mores beer

[macewank]

Hey folks!

So I recently created a s'mores beer that I was hoping to have ready for Thanksgiving, but it has some problems. I think the problems are fixable, but wanted to get some opinions.

I used a jar of Kraft Marshmallow Fluff in the recipe and did not do a very good job with it. In hindsight, I would have fermented with Amylase, but I didn't.

So what I'm left with is a pretty good tasting beer, but it's a bit.... viscous due to the polysaccharides in the fluff.

I've talked with a few brewers locally here, one of which works for a commercial brewery in town, and they had a couple of suggestions of things to try:

1) Convertase AG-300 -- This will be a bit difficult to get my hands on, but I'm told this will break those polysaccharides down and thin the beer.

2) Kieselsol -- My LHBS sells this in a dual pack with Chitosan. I was told that using the Kieselsol and discarding the Chitosan would probably take care of the viscosity issue, as the negative particles would bind to the proteins in the polysaccharides and allow them to drop out of solution. The gent who told me about this is far more of a beer chemist than I, but what do you guys think?

3) Amylase -- Add some Amylase to the keg and re-start fermentation.. The Amylase should, in theory anyway, break those poly's into simple sugars which the yeast would then eat. This would obviously lower my FG a bit, but that's not an issue. This is already a huge beer.

I believe all 3 options will require me to re-pitch yeast into the keg, which isn't a big deal. I don't mind fermenting in it. There was discussion about what yeast to actually pitch, and I think I've settled on creating a starter of Wyeast 1084 (Irish Ale) which is what I used in the original recipe, and using that. One suggestion was to use distillers yeast, but I think that would probably dry it out a bit too much.

What do you think? Are we crazy?

 

[MalFet]

The internet seems to suggest that Kraft marshmallow fluff is mostly corn syrup, sugar, water, and egg whites. The corn syrup will have some polysaccharides, but I suspect that it's actually the egg protein that's giving you trouble. I hope others with more chemistry knowledge will chime in, but if I were in your shoes I'd probably start by trying some gelatin and a hard cold crash.

Let us know how things end up!

 

[Oaney]

Interesting that you used a jar of Fluff. I don't have any advice really for fixing this beer but I would say that if I had brewed it, I would have looked at the ingredients list in the fluff and tried to break it down. For example fluff is mostly sugar with air whipped in and flavored with vanilla. So if I wanted a Fluff taste in my beer I would probably go with a bit of vanilla bean and a larger amount of sugar that isn't fully fermentable.

I haven't ever used it, but IIRC lactose is only partially fermentable and will create a smooth almost creamy mouthfeel. Maybe someone can verify/correct me on this. This in combination with the vanilla bean might get you close to what you are looking for without all the other additives present in a jar of Fluff.

 

[macewank]

The internet seems to suggest that Kraft marshmallow fluff is mostly corn syrup, sugar, water, and egg whites. The corn syrup will have some polysaccharides, but I suspect that it's actually the egg protein that's giving you trouble. I hope others with more chemistry knowledge will chime in, but if I were in your shoes I'd probably start by trying some gelatin and a hard cold crash.

Let us know how things end up!

Gelatin is an interesting idea.. I hadn't thought of that. I think I'll pull some beer out of the keg and test it out on small scale to see what happens. Good suggestion!

 

[macewank]

So, I tried the gelatin.. Used a 1/2 packet into the cold crashed keg (depressurized). It cleaned up a little bit, but not nearly enough. At this point, I'm not sure adding more gelatin is going to do anything, though. Seems that most of the "funk" is still in solution.

 

[PDX_T]

I have an idea for you. I've done this in a lab before, and it's not uncommon in commercial practice. Gelatin is a protein used to precipitate an excess of polyphenols from hops. What you have is an excess of protein. You need tannic acid. It's a polyphenol that will help precipitate the extra protein.

Do some small scale trials on samples of your beer to find the right concentration. Chill the beer as cold as you can get it and add the tannic acid while stirring until you see it clearing. You may see precipitate falling out of solution. Add just enough to get it to clear, then calculate what you'd need for your whole batch.