Trying to Determine Partial Mash Proportions

[escalante88]

I'm a newbie (started a month ago) and I've been trying to determine the correct ingredient proportions for a 5 gallon batch of partial mash honey wheat beer. I listed what my tentative recipe and the ingredients I have below, but I'm curious to see if anyone has any favorites, corrections, or suggestions. Here is what I am thinking, although I could be terribly off the mark:

Mash or steep (?) 2 lbs milled malted wheat, add 5 lbs. (?) Munton's wheat DME (55%/45%), 1 oz of Hallertau @ 60 minutes, and 1 oz of Hallertau @ 5-10 minutes, and pitch the W3638. Would this be too sweet? Should I also steep or mash the honey malt - or just add 1 lb. honey at flame-out? Holler at me with any suggestions or preferred proportions. Great to be a part of the forum!

Josh

*5 lbs Munton's Wheat DME (55%/45%), 5 lbs milled malted wheat, 2 oz Hallertau hop pellets, 1 lb. Gambrinus honey malt, 1 packet Wyeast 3638 Bavarian Wheat*

 

[phatuna]

Escalante, you might take a glance through the recipe database here https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f70/?daysprune=-1&order=desc&sort=replycount

You will see that it can be searched by # of replies. I figure the more action on the thread, the more times it's been tried and vetted out.

Take a look through the threads, notice some of the ingredients and percentages that tried and true recipes are using, then tweak them a little bit to make them your own. Then post them in the database if you make a really great one!

 

[Ichthy]

YOur DME is probably half 2row and half wheat. So, you probably don't want to try and mash 5 lbs of wheat, it needs 2 row to convert. Drop the wheat malt to 2.5 and add 2.5 lbs of 2 row.

 

[escalante88]

Awesome - I looked through the recipe database for quite a bit and found only one recipe but its numbers and ingredients were different then what I am looking for unfortunately - 3 gallon batch size, LME, and so forth. I'm not sure if I'm experienced enough to significantly alter the recipe, but I will definitely search by number of replies - a great idea.

Ichthy, the Muntons (if this is 2-row, doesn't English 2 row have less diastatic activity?) DME is 55% wheat, 45% barley. So could I mash 2.5 lbs of wheat malt and 2.5 lbs of the 55/45 DME or would that be too much wheat and not enough diastatic activity? Do you suggest 2.5 lbs wheat malt and straight up 100% 2 row barley DME?

Will that make for enough fermentable sugars to hit 5% alcohol by volume? Would 6 row barley have more diastatic power and be more effective in converting the wheat starch to fermentable sugars? Sorry for all the questions - I want this batch to turn out tasty...

 

[escalante88]

2.5 lbs. of straight up 100% 2 row barley DME - I forgot to say 2.5 lbs.

 

[Ichthy]

You can't mash with the DME, or at least I've never heard of anyone doing so. You would need to mash your 2.5lbs of wheat with actual 2row barley. A lot of hefe recipes are 50/50 wheat and 2row, so I think you'd be fine dropping the wheat to 2.5 and adding 2.5 lbs 2row. It shouldn't matter whether you use 2 or 6 row.

Also, go ahead and throw the honey malt in the mash.

I don't have my software in front of me, but do a search on google for "brewtarget" it's free and you can plug in all your numbers to calculate IBUs, OG, FG, etc. But you should be pretty close to 5% ABV.

 

[phatuna]

Awesome - I looked through the recipe database for quite a bit and found only one recipe but its numbers and ingredients were different then what I am looking for unfortunately - 3 gallon batch size, LME, and so forth. I'm not sure if I'm experienced enough to significantly alter the recipe, but I will definitely search by number of replies - a great idea. ..

Escalante, the conversions are really fairly simple. some folks (like me) use software like http://www.beersmith.com/. You can also read up on converting in many articles like this one: http://home.roadrunner.com/~brewbeer/extract/pres.pdf

I think that you will find that being able to do the conversion will help you greatly as most recipe's are posted in all-grain, 5 and 10 gallons - assuming you will PM for a while.

 

[escalante88]

Oh OK I was confused although I know you can't mash DME! Thanks guys I am downloading the software as I write this...

 

[DeathBrewer]

Hey, escalante88...your mailbox is full, so I'm posting my hefeweizen recipe here for ya:

3 lbs Wheat Malt
1-2 lbs Pilsner Malt (depends on how high in alcohol you want and your mash efficiency)
2 oz Aromatic Malt
3 lbs Wheat Dry Malt Extract
~10 IBUs of Tettnanger hops (or Hallertau, Saaz or even Fuggle) for 60 minutes of the boil
WLP300 in a 1L starter (or wyeast alternative)

Do a 90 minute total boil. Ferment in the low 60s.

Cold-crashing for a week or two after fermentation or filtering will give it the Kristall-weizen appearance and flavor by dropping out the yeast.

One of my favorites, I've made it many times.

 

[escalante88]

Thanks DeathBrewer - Your recipe has inspired me to do a few more hours of much-needed research! I still have a few questions, however. Why the aromatic malts? I haven't seen these in any other recipes and was curious about them.

Also, why the 90 minute total boil time? Lastly, do you cold-crash in the secondary or in bottles, and at what temperature? This is my third batch and I really want it to come out well (Hence all the questions)! Here is my recipe as it stands right now:

5.5 Gallon Batch of Kristall Pistol:

3.30 lb Wheat DME
4.00 lb Wheat Malt
1.55 lb German Pilsner (2 row)
1.57 oz Hallertau (3% AA)
W3068 (with starter?)

OG = 1.055
FG = 1.013
Alc by Vol = 5.4%
IBUs = 15
CO2 = 3.0 % with 5.9 oz corn sugar

Upgraded my membership by the way, so inbox is no longer 5 deep... Thanks for all your help!

 

[DeathBrewer]

German Hefeweizens are traditionally done with nothing but pilsner and wheat and a decoction mash is used to give it a bit of maltiness. Decoction mashes were also used because grains were not highly modified and because it was easy to gauge temperature, etc.

Anyway, a small amount of aromatic malt will give it a malty backbone with using a decoction. I've also tried using a maltier grain, such as Vienna, in place of the Pilsner, but then it isn't as light and crisp as a hefeweizen should be. I enjoy doing decoction mashes, too, but with a partial mash it's a a waste of time...you won't get enough out of it with such a small amount of grain.

Check out the bjcp guidelines: http://www.bjcp.org/2008styles/style15.php#1a

Your OG of 1.055 is pretty high for a weissbier, although I've made this same recipe as a weizenbock before and it was amazing, so a higher gravity is certainly possible.

I make it a rule to do a 90 minute boil whenever I'm using pilsner malt because it produces DMS (dimethyl sulfide.) This will ensure you don't get that vegetative aroma.

I would cold-crash in secondary to make it nice and clear, but that means you will have to add more yeast at bottling. Perhaps do like the breweries do and use a lager yeast for bottling

You could certainly just cold crash the bottles for a few weeks after they are done carbonating, however, and skip the secondary...but I think it will be less clear.

I would definitely make a starter and be sure to ferment cool...this will make a nice, clean beer with the ester banana and clove flavors being pleasant and smooth, not overpowering and wild.

Good call on the membership...this forum is worth it!

 

[DeathBrewer]

I'm calculating about 20 IBUs for 1.57 oz of 3.0%AA hops. A partial boil will cut this down a little bit, but I would still cut it down to about 1 oz.

 

[mullenite]

YOur DME is probably half 2row and half wheat. So, you probably don't want to try and mash 5 lbs of wheat, it needs 2 row to convert. Drop the wheat malt to 2.5 and add 2.5 lbs of 2 row.

Malted wheat can self convert and then some. It has the same diastatic power as 6-row (Briess anyway.) You should still use some other malt in the mash though to keep it from turning in to a gooey mess and getting stuck.

 

[DeathBrewer]

Good point...wheat malt generally has very high diastatic power. If you're using a bag, getting stuck is not as much of a concern.

 

[escalante88]

OK, so I have adjusted my recipe thanks to everyone's suggestions, reducing the IBUs to 10, going to hold off the aromatic malts since this is partial mash, also I reduced the wheat/pilsner ratio to 50/50 based off what I read on Northern Brewer (I still remain a loyal supporter of HomeBrewTalk!) My OG is still 1.055, but I am holding on it to maintain the 5.4 % Alc by Volume, same as Weihenstephaner. And I will definitely cold-crash in the secondary, and filter everything as well.

I will be using a grain bag per DeathBrewers partial mash write-up so I'm not overly concerned with sticky bad-bad, and I just mixed the W3068 starter, to the tune of a Sweetwater IPA (no good homebrews yet!). By the way, what temperature do yall cold-crash at, and, also, do you smack/use yeast and nutrient from the Wyeast Activator Packs to make the starter? Will definitely ferment in the low 60's with a bootlegged swamp cooler.

You guys are seriously awesome, I have learned more in the last week than I could have figured out on my own in the last month! I will let yall know how it goes!

Kristall Pistol:

3.19 lb Wheat DME
2.87 lb Wheat Malt
2.87 lb German Pilsner (2 row)
1.03 oz Hallertau (3% AA)
W3068 (with 1 qt starter)

OG = 1.055
FG = 1.013
Alc by Vol = 5.4%
IBUs = 9.9
CO2 = 3.0 % with 5.9 oz corn sugar

 

[DeathBrewer]

Colder the better (faster, at least) for cold crashing. Don't go below freezing

I generally use close to 70% wheat in my all-grain and partial mashes, but 50% will work fine.

Yep, smack the pack and it should bulge at least a little bit, so you'll know it's ready for the starter.

 

[escalante88]

Just finished brewing the weissbier clone - seems like there were constant hot breaks rather than one, even at the 90 minute mark! I assume this is because wheat is about 15% protein, but luckily I avoided any boil-overs. Pitched the starter and am waiting for signs of fermentation, as you can see below. Fingers crossed...

 

[DeathBrewer]

yummy!