Trying Saflager for the first time

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Gunshowgreg

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Jul 8, 2017
Messages
278
Reaction score
106
Location
Lake Charles
Hello everyone. Thinking of getting a Oktoberfest beer going soon and I have stumbled upon an article emailed to me from home brew academy mentioning using saflager to make lagers at ale temps. Somethings were not mentioned in the article.

My questions are

1. How long do I let this ferment for? Months like a lager normally would?

2. Wnat would be the best Saflager for my Oktoberfest.

3. Is a starter necessary? I been reading that people are making starters with this type of dry yeast but I didn't think you needed to. Opinions? Thoughts?


Also any recipies welcome.

Screenshot_20190718-131304_Chrome.jpeg
Screenshot_20190718-131428_Chrome.jpeg
Screenshot_20190718-131510_Chrome.jpeg
 
S-189, or if your temp control is not as good, 34/70. No need for starter, dry pitch as per instructions and follow volume recommendations on packet.

Fermentation around a week, or longer if fermenting on the cool side, a little less on the warm side.

Generally it will improve lagering cold for 4 to 8 weeks after cold crash.
 
Yep, if you want to ferment at ale temps, 34/70 is the way to go.

Primary fermentation should be done within 1-2 weeks. After you hit FG, slowly ramp the temp down to lagering temps over the course of a few days, then lager for 4-8 weeks like @Dland said.
 
Generally it will improve lagering cold for 4 to 8 weeks after cold crash.
Ramp down is preferable to cold crash, if you can.
Unless you're doing a "fast lager".

And 34/70 is an incredibly versatile and robust yeast. I keep a packet or two on hand to restart stuck fermentations. It's only ever happened twice, but the 34/70 saved the day.
 
I prefer S-189 to w34/70, but have used both successfully around between 15-18C/59-64F. I don't think you can use S-23 that warm.

Ferment for about 10 days, lager for as long as you can hold out, at least 3 weeks. You shouldn't need a starter.
 
S-189 is very good.

W-34/70, meh.

S-23, I'm not sure exactly (yet).

You can ferment warm for quicker results, but I think a more traditional cool ferment for 3-6 weeks will turn out better.

No need for a yeast starter. This is another huge advantage of dried yeast vs. liquid yeast.
 
Ramp down is preferable to cold crash, if you can.
Unless you're doing a "fast lager"..

Agreed, ramp ups and ramp downs are for good lagers, regular procedure here. Making good lagers requires patience. Best way to stay patient is to have a good supply. Full "pipeline" and all that...

But one still cold crashes at end of whatever cellar steps one is taking. The yeast drops and lagering period begins. A good lager will start to come into its own at around 3-4 weeks in cold lager mode, some get better and better for 6-10 weeks depending on complexity of beer. (;
 
Ramp down is preferable to cold crash, if you can.
Unless you're doing a "fast lager".

And 34/70 is an incredibly versatile and robust yeast. I keep a packet or two on hand to restart stuck fermentations. It's only ever happened twice, but the 34/70 saved the day.
I guess I'm gonna be doing a fast lager. No layering equipment yet. I live in Louisiana so I can pretty much forget using the weather to cool my beer. (I hate the heat and hate living here. Trying to move) 2 weeks in the primary and then to bottling as with anything else? I'm basically doing an ale then
 
Do you have room for a chest freezer? You can get a good deal on a small one on Craig’s list and a 20 dollar Inkbird and you will be all good for lagers . It’s the best move I have made to make my beer better .
 
Hello everyone. Thinking of getting a Oktoberfest beer going soon and I have stumbled upon an article emailed to me from home brew academy mentioning using saflager to make lagers at ale temps. Somethings were not mentioned in the article.

My questions are

1. How long do I let this ferment for? Months like a lager normally would?

2. Wnat would be the best Saflager for my Oktoberfest.

3. Is a starter necessary? I been reading that people are making starters with this type of dry yeast but I didn't think you needed to.

You're best off reading the main warm-fermented lager thread.

Of the Fermentis yeasts, 34/70 and S-189 will both work, although people there like Californian lager yeasts like Mangrove Jack M54 because it flocculates better. Or if you really want to go hot, then the new Bootleg Biology Oslo strain will allegedly make lager at kveik-like temperatures.

The advantage of dry yeasts is that they don't need oxygen in the same way, but it can get expensive getting the cell count you want if you don't grow them up with a starter (after which they will need aeration).
 
Hello everyone. Thinking of getting a Oktoberfest beer going soon and I have stumbled upon an article emailed to me from home brew academy mentioning using saflager to make lagers at ale temps. Somethings were not mentioned in the article.

My questions are

1. How long do I let this ferment for? Months like a lager normally would?

2. Wnat would be the best Saflager for my Oktoberfest.

3. Is a starter necessary? I been reading that people are making starters with this type of dry yeast but I didn't think you needed to. Opinions? Thoughts?


Also any recipies welcome.

View attachment 636159View attachment 636160View attachment 636161
Check the "warm fermented lager thread" for detailed information.

Bottom line of yeast choices is that mangrove Jack California lager is the best dry yeast available for room temperature lager beer. Just treat it as an ale, no lagering required.

Edit: As usual, @Northern_Brewer gave already good advice.
 
But one still cold crashes at end of whatever cellar steps one is taking. The yeast drops and lagering period begins. A good lager will start to come into its own at around 3-4 weeks in cold lager mode, some get better and better for 6-10 weeks depending on complexity of beer. (;

Not ideally. A cold crash is common, but then you aren't benefiting from what the yeast can do during lagering. Ramping down to lager temp, like 5 degrees F a day or less, rather than cold crashing gives you better results (can you tell the difference? that's up to you). Why? ramp down from fermentation or D-rest (if you do one) allows them to adjust to the cooling temp and slow down rather than just get shocked and go dormant. Slow-moving, but still active yeast are a key part of classical lagering.

If you cold crash, you shock the yeast, and they go immediately dormant, fall out of suspension, and they don't do anything for you while you're lagering.

Most home brewers don't know this and they cold crash to get clarity faster, but a large part of what cleans up the beer in the lagering phase is the yeast, which go into a very slow metabolic state, but are still active to some degree, and THEY are what cleans up the fermentation byproducts in the beer and even help prevent oxidation during lagering.

This process is why traditional lagers are said to be "clean" tasting.

In lay terms, it is often said that yeast eat sugar, burp CO2 and piss alcohol. That's kinda true, but they also vomit, crap, and sit around in their own sweat and BO from all their work (in lay terms). This is where you get the other byproducts like diacetyl, acetaldehyde, sulfur, fruity esters, et cetera.

During lagering, the yeast have time to clean up their own messes, since they aren't working so hard at the easy stuff (eating and making alcohol). Those messes aren't always catastrophic, or even bad, but they're there.
If yo cold crash, all you are getting from that period is clarity, but not cleanup from the yeast.

Also, if you are going to take the time to do a proper long lagering period, don't add gelatin or any fining agents. That will drop the yeast out of suspension and, again, they will do nothing for you.

That is why there is a traditional lagering phase for German beers - it's not because they don't know how to get beer clear faster, it's because they know there are benefits beyond clarity.
 
I made a beer with S-23 the other day. It fermented quick, but ended very high (1.018 from 1.032). I'm not sure it's because of the yeast or because of a terrible mashing process though, so that's up for debate. The yeast flocculates like crazy, so at bottling day with just a gelatin addition my bottles where already pretty clear.

In terms of nose and flavour - the beer I got was pretty good. It's still carbonating so I can't comment on final product, but the tasters from the fermenter was good. A bit low on body, but that's to be expected with a 1.032 OG.

I don't think I'll use it again. I MUCH preferred Mangrove Jack's M54 Californian Lager yeast, specially since it can ferment warm without issues.
 
Not ideally. A cold crash is common, but then you aren't benefiting from what the yeast can do during lagering. Ramping down to lager temp, like 5 degrees F a day or less, rather than cold crashing.........there are benefits beyond clarity.

Maybe I use the wrong term, but I still refer to cold crash as the drop from cold cellar temp(high 40s-low 50sF) to lagering temp(33-34F) as cold crash. I am pretty sure there is no appreciable yeast activity below high 40sF. Especially after a two week primary, rack, ramp up, D rest/spunding period and ramp down.( Typically around 4 weeks from brew to crash.)

But if one wants to get complicated with temp control, and ramp from 50F to 35F also, I'm sure it will do no harm. I've done it and did not taste any benefit over simpler system I use now.
 
Maybe I use the wrong term, but I still refer to cold crash as the drop from cold cellar temp(high 40s-low 50sF) to lagering temp(33-34F) as cold crash. I am pretty sure there is no appreciable yeast activity below high 40sF. Especially after a two week primary, rack, ramp up, D rest/spunding period and ramp down.( Typically around 4 weeks from brew to crash.)

But if one wants to get complicated with temp control, and ramp from 50F to 35F also, I'm sure it will do no harm. I've done it and did not taste any benefit over simpler system I use now.

Cold Crash is usually considered a rapid drop to lagering temps (i.e. just putting the beer at that temp without ramp down).

Yes, there is yeast activity (slow due to the cold temps) during lagering IF they haven't been cold-shocked into dormancy.
I am pretty sure the reference to this is in Kunze. I am looking for it to provide the scientific reference, but it may take me a few minutes to find it (also I'm at work now, so that may add to the time). It's something most homebrewers don't know, because most don't read Kunze, Narziss, etc (foundational brewing science). THat's not a knock on you or anything - like I said, MOST don't bother and go off of collective communal knowledge, which isn't always correct or scientifically valid.
 
Yes, it is in Kunze (and likely elsewhere).
He makes numberous references in Chapter 4 to the yeast activity and the importance of a slow ramp down so as to not shock them. In particular, he mentions their ability to clean up diacetyl and absorb cold break particles in sections 4.3.5.2 and 4.3.7. Those are what I was able to find on a cursory glance.
FWIW, the big German breweries don't do diacetyl rests (raising the temp is detrimental to the beer, especially for shelf life, which is more important to them than to homebrewers), and D-rests aren't necessary if your fermentation temps are managed well.

Also, FWIW, ideal lagering temp is as close to 0C (32F) as possible, and even as low as -1C. Don't sell yourself short by stopping at 33-34F. Your beer won't freeze at 31-32F.
 
[emoji848] alright the mangrove jack. I'll look into that. Does that yeast give me the option to also ferment cold. I could always research that on my own but I figure I'd ask here.

I could very well get a chest to lager my beer. I'll look on let go or craigslist as was mentioned before. I guess I was looking to experiment with something like this warmer layering deal. I'm on time constraints as is. Also what does it look like for time to cold lager ? 6 to 8 weeks?
 
If you want a quick and dirty means of keeping ferm temps down, you can set up a "swamp cooler." It's just a large wash bucket or tub filled with cold water. Set the fermenter in it, cover with a towel that extends into the water. The towel wicks moisture upwards and evaporation does the cooling. You can toss in a few ice packs 2 or 3 times a day to help drop temps.

A few examples:

dscn3367-jpg.43510


swampcooler.jpg
 
It’s
[emoji848] alright the mangrove jack. I'll look into that. Does that yeast give me the option to also ferment cold. I could always research that on my own but I figure I'd ask here.

I could very well get a chest to lager my beer. I'll look on let go or craigslist as was mentioned before. I guess I was looking to experiment with something like this warmer layering deal. I'm on time constraints as is. Also what does it look like for time to cold lager ? 6 to 8 weeks?

I always take 2 weeks for fermentation and lager till clear . Usually 2-4 weeks for me
 
I'm going to chime in on S23 fermented warm - it's the only yeast I use for my lagers (warm or cold) and I've never had an issue with it, beyond using it past 4 generations (starts to throw some weird esters). I've used 34/70 in the past as well, but in my opinion the S23 gives a cleaner fermentation. Fresh it's got quite a lag when fermented cold (last one went almost 72 hours before krausen started forming, although there was some action prior to that, just no foam), but used in a 2nd or 3rd generation it takes off fast and ferments clean.
 
Back
Top