True Traditional German Hefeweizen

[BeirKaiser]

Hallo! I am seeking the advice of people who have experience with Hefeweizens. I am looking to make my second 5gallon extract batch of beer. I originally made an American Amber ale for a friend from a kit. Now I would like to make a Hefeweizen for myself. I would like it to follow the german purity law. Meaning it can only have water, malts, and hops. The Reinheitsgebot also says that the malts have to have 50-70% wheat. I've done some research and I would love some opinions to help me narrow done a recipe that fits me.

Hops (0.5-1oz and must be Noble Hops)
-tettnang, hallertau, Spalt seem to be the most popular
-perle, magnum, tradition and hallertau mittfruh were other suggestions

Yeast (major factor)
-danstar Munich german wheat beer dry yeast
-wyeast 3068 (Germany) or WL 300 (banana)
-german wheat 3333 or Bavarian 351 (clove)
-dry yeast fermentis WB-06 suftbrew Munich
(There are so many recipes that I wasn't sure to get the dry, or rehydrate or have it shipped with an ice pack)
-decided against Bavarian wheat 3638 and hefeweizen IV 380

Extract (50-70% wheat & rest either barley or rye, no pilsner)
-CBW Bavarian wheat (65/35 barley) LME or DME
-Munton's wheat DME (65/35 barley)
- Mr Beer Bavarian Weissbeir HME
(Most recipes lean toward LME but I know some call for both)

Grains in Muslim bag
-0.5lb flacked wheat & 0.5 flacked oats
- Weyermann pale wheat
-2row pale malt
(I don't prefer the taste of pilsners and I don't want "French" grains and pilsners beers are a fairly modern lager)

I would also like a slightly more ABV% but i can't add more sugar like most recipes because of the Purity Law

Temp
-Most recipes say 62F (Brewing Class Styles)
-64-75F
-60-65F (lower temp= cleaner flavor)
-above 72F banana or lower (clove)
-68-76F (mr beer)
-52F
-Fluctuating temp during each process comes up a few times: pitch at 55, 4 days later 62, 2 weeks later 32 for 7-10 days

Any advice or suggestions would be very appreciated

 

[sudndeth]

I just brewed one yesterday. I have a solid recipe that I've been using for some time and it's great! pretty close to Paulaner . I've tried several varieties, but thus one was my favorite. Mash at 150-152. I shoot for 151. I use Wyeast 3068 with a starter and well oxygenated wort. Ferm at 64-66

 

[Qhrumphf]

Given that you're looking for an extract recipe, most extracts are 50% wheat, 50% barley. Since wheat will require mashing and any steepable grains would push you under the 50% wheat limit you're looking for, you're going to be limited to 100% extract, no steeping grains for an extract batch. If you want to do a partial mash, I would consider a small amount of wheat malt, pilsner malt, and a bit of melanoidin malt to simulate the character of a decoction mash, and mash that on the lower side, 149-150 or so.

That said, I would go with simply one brand of wheat extract, and no grains (or I'd go with 60% wheat malt and 40% pils malt, and do a proper all grain decoction mash). I would go with the CBW of the choices that you have. I would target an OG of 1.048-1.050 or so for a traditional version. If you want to go stronger, up it to 1.055-1.060

In my German beers, I like both Hallertau and Tettenang. I think either one would be just fine. I would use exactly one small hop addition at 60 minutes, for 10-15 IBUs. If you're going stronger, I'd go up to maybe 15-18 IBUs.

As far as yeast, I would emphatically recommend the Wyeast 3068. I've tried a number of Weizen yeasts, and that's the only one I think provides the right balance of character. I would reduce your pitching rate slightly compared to other beers, and ferment on the cool side, 62-64. A lot of folks say to ferment these beers warm, which I find gives too much banana, and not enough clove. The slight underpitch and cool fermentation allow you to get a balance of both.

 

[Brewmex41]

Wheat and rye were the very reason for the purity law, so it won't conform to those stipulations.
I like the white labs weihenstephener weizen yeast. At least, I think thats what it is called. Wpl320 I believe

 

[BeirKaiser]

Thank you everyone for the great advice. As much as I would like to do a full grain batch, I think I'm going to do an extract batch with partial grain to increase the ABV without using table sugar. Plus, I'm not experienced yet for full grain but I'm probably going to try after this batch.

You've been a great help and definitely helped me narrow things down and formulate a good recipe

 

[BeirKaiser]

Brewmex41, did you mean WLP300Hefeweizen Ale, Weihenstephan 68?

 

[W0rthog]

This was a really good recipe.

http://www.northernbrewer.com/documentation/beerkits/BavarianHefeweizen.pdf

As for purity, I've gone that route with bottle priming with DME, but found it adds to much and doesn't ferment out in the bottle that well. The other option is krausening, which takes some additional coordination.

http://www.northernbrewer.com/documentation/AdvancedBottleConditioning.pdf

I found using table sugar is quick and effective.


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[W0rthog]

Also pitch rate makes a difference. I found under pitching produces more banana-clove, while over pitching produces less of these flavors.

Also Wyeast 3333 produces very little flavor contributions.

I think I've settled on 3068, since it produces the 'hefe' flavor I like.



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[helibrewer]

I used WLP300, all grain, 50/50 grain bill with a ferulic acid rest at 113F for 20 minutes. Fermented at 62F and this beer is all clove, no banana at all.

 

[BeirKaiser]

Danke W0rthog! The krausening is precisely what I am looking for! Much more traditional.

It's seems like a lot of people lean toward 3068 and the WLP300 because they are similar.

And the temp seems to be around 62 for fermenting. Since my apartment's A/C only goes to 68F and I don't have a spare fridge, would I be okay with a storage bin of water and adding ice every once in a while?

 

[Qhrumphf]

Danke W0rthog! The krausening is precisely what I am looking for! Much more traditional.

It's seems like a lot of people lean toward 3068 and the WLP300 because they are similar.

And the temp seems to be around 62 for fermenting. Since my apartment's A/C only goes to 68F and I don't have a spare fridge, would I be okay with a storage bin of water and adding ice every once in a while?

Storage bin of water + ice is exactly how I do it.

Just keep in mind that the "traditional" methods like krausening are because of law, not necessarily quality of beer. The purity law was more about food prices than beer quality initially, and then presumably because Germans are a very stubborn bunch, despite some changes over time they more or less stuck to it. Although I do believe that ales in Germany are allowed to use sugar now. Meaning that priming it with dextrose like everyone else would be just fine. If you want to stick to the original without sugar, then you can't brew a Hefe anyway. So either way, it's splitting hairs as to which version you're following.

 

[BeirKaiser]

Storage bin of water + ice is exactly how I do it.



Just keep in mind that the "traditional" methods like krausening are because of law, not necessarily quality of beer. The purity law was more about food prices than beer quality initially, and then presumably because Germans are a very stubborn bunch, despite some changes over time they more or less stuck to it. Although I do believe that ales in Germany are allowed to use sugar now. Meaning that priming it with dextrose like everyone else would be just fine. If you want to stick to the original without sugar, then you can't brew a Hefe anyway. So either way, it's splitting hairs as to which version you're following.

Very good point and I shouldn't be splitting hairs. If I truly wanted to follow it, I could have chosen another style. I'm glad to hear that the storage bin method works

 

[BeirKaiser]

I suppose this is where some of my confusion started:

It's from Paulaner's Hefeweizen

 

[BeirKaiser]

And Ayinger's Hefeweizen

 

[Qhrumphf]

Nothing wrong with following it, or at least following the spirit. Point I'm making is that German pros exploit loopholes in it but still proudly comply. And the brewers above are complying with a newer version once wheat was technically allowed again, but are still following the general spirit of it.

I'm just saying, don't hang yourself up on the technicalities of it.

 

[Qhrumphf]

I used WLP300, all grain, 50/50 grain bill with a ferulic acid rest at 113F for 20 minutes. Fermented at 62F and this beer is all clove, no banana at all.

What's your pitching rate? I do almost the exact same. I find following Mr. Malty's rate for this style and that ferm temp means zero banana, and I reduce the rate substantially, to about 0.375 mil cells per ml per °P (about half the rate from Mr. Malty).

 

[W0rthog]

And the temp seems to be around 62 for fermenting. Since my apartment's A/C only goes to 68F and I don't have a spare fridge, would I be okay with a storage bin of water and adding ice every once in a while?

I typically ferment at 68, because my family doesn't like it too cold in the house. They always turn out good for me at that temp.

The yeast range for Wyeast 3068 is 64 to 75. I think the warmer you go, the more banana your going to get. The lower temps should give you more clove. But this yeast is well balanced. That's why I hit 68, a happy balance for me.

Hope this helps, Prost

Du bist Welkommen


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[W0rthog]

If you want a cleaner finish (ie. no banana/clove), use Wyeast 3333, pitch high and ferment low.




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[Malty_Dog]

I think this fits your bill: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f70/bee-cave-brewery-bavarian-hefeweizen-35679/

I love mine!