Trouble reaching OG. HELP!

[Traz1986]

13.25 lbs of grain +1lb corn sugar in boil was called for in my IPA recipe. I worked backward to a certain extent to start, figured 13 lbs x 1.5 quarts per lb = 5 gallons +/- to start the mash.

Warmed the 10 gallon igloo cooler, added 4.5 gallons of water at 165 degrees, stirred in the grain well. Took 2 temp readings 148 degrees. I then took the remaining 2.25 quarts and raised it from 167 degrees to boiling. Added to cooler while stirring vigorously, took temp with 2 thermometers, 152.5 degrees. Perfect, seeled the lid and left it alone for the 45 minute mash. (plus the 10 while the 2 quarts was being boiled) it was 152 at the end of the 45 minutes.

After 45 minutes, I vourloff roughly 2 quarts. And start a slow runoff into the boil kettle. Just as the grain is almost exposed, I start to pour in the remaining 3 gallons of water heated to 167 degrees. I would like to say it was gently sprayed on top, but it was not. I was pouring from a pot and given it was running down the side of the pot when I was pouring I probably poured closer to the side of the cooler wall. I continued to let that run off into the boil kettle until dry. (left about a quart behind under the false bottom) Gravity 1.036 (Still had the lb of sugar to add at that point).

On to the Boil, collected 6.5 gallons boiled for an hour, only lost a quart to evaporation. I have a Blichmann 7.5 gallon with a boil coil. It runs wide open all the time It manages a gentle boil throughout the boil (without a controller) 1lb corn sugar added, .5lb of pellet hops per the schedule. Final Gravity: 1.047 (Target 1.074 per recipe and Beersmith) I’m going to buy a second hydrometer today, but I don’t expect that to be the root of my problem.

I frustratedly ( not sure if that’s a word) chilled the wort, hosed down the kitchen, when one of the hoses broke, and pitched the WLP001 at 68 degrees. That was midnight last night, although early, fermenter had a very slow bubble this morning at 6:30am (And the sample on the counter with the Hydrometer is fermenting as well)

So – Where would you improve my process. One more tid bit, while cleaning out the mash tun, I tasted the spent grain, and it was good – It had nice sweetness to it. I ate a bowl for dinner. But that’s an issue for another day. However the remaining sweetness tells me something is not right. I have only made a few batches, but they have all been thin.

Stir up the second 3 gallons of water, wait 15 minutes, vourloff, and runoff? If so, target 152 degrees or the 167 “mashout temp”

Same process but split the water evenly 4 gal/4gal?

Somehow compensate for the lack of evaporation from the boil?

Punt?

Thank you.
Jim


View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1472134067.449168.jpg

 

[meridianomrebel]

What temperature was the wort when you took your gravity reading?

 

[dstockwell]

Either going to need to split batch to get a more vigorous boil, or find another way to boil off more.. What was your BG?

 

[Traz1986]

What temperature was the wort when you took your gravity reading?

Room temp- 70 degrees

 

[kh54s10]

Low OG is most often traced back to a poor crush on the grain. Second is incorrect volume into the fermenter.

In Beersmith what do you have the BH efficiency set for? If it is not close to the efficiency you actually achieve it is adjusting your grainbill incorrectly. For instance if your usual efficiency is only 60% and you have it set for 80% it will give you less grain than you actually need for the recipe.

The other thing that might be happening is when you pour the sparge water in it is channeling, taking the path of least resistance, thus not washing all the sugars out. You could use a pie plate with a lot of holes in it to force the water to disperse across the entire grainbed. Or you could batch sparge.

 

[Traz1986]

Either going to need to split batch to get a more vigorous boil, or find another way to boil off more.. What was your BG?

I.035 pre boil ( and pre pound of corn sugar)

 

[kh54s10]

Either going to need to split batch to get a more vigorous boil, or find another way to boil off more.. What was your BG?

This is only a problem if the final volume was too much. If you have a boil and end up with the proper volume the OG should be at least very close. If you boil off more and end up low on volume you would have the opposite problem - too high a gravity.

 

[Traz1986]

A reputable homebrew shop crushed the grain, it looked good based on what I know.

By batch Sparge, do you mean this?

After running off the whole firs 5 gallons after the mash time.
Stir up the second 3 gallons of water, wait 15 minutes, vourloff, and runoff? If so, target 152 degrees or the 167 “mashout temp”

Low OG is most often traced back to a poor crush on the grain. Second is incorrect volume into the fermenter.

In Beersmith what do you have the BH efficiency set for? If it is not close to the efficiency you actually achieve it is adjusting your grainbill incorrectly. For instance if your usual efficiency is only 60% and you have it set for 80% it will give you less grain than you actually need for the recipe.

The other thing that might be happening is when you pour the sparge water in it is channeling, taking the path of least resistance, thus not washing all the sugars out. You could use a pie plate with a lot of holes in it to force the water to disperse across the entire grainbed. Or you could batch sparge.

 

[Aristotelian]

Is this your first time brewing with this system? I would guess grain crush is the main culprit. You are better off crushing your own grain or ask the shop to double crush. Regardless, next time monitor gravity carefully when you are adding your sparge water

 

[Traz1986]

I'm collecting more wort post boil than the recipe or Beersmith calls for. It said I would collect 5.5 into the fermenter, I am 6+ gallons.

This is only a problem if the final volume was too much. If you have a boil and end up with the proper volume the OG should be at least very close. If you boil off more and end up low on volume you would have the opposite problem - too high a gravity.

 

[Traz1986]

4th brew, problems have been consistent. I'll try to have them double crush. Thanks!

Is this your first time brewing with this system? I would guess grain crush is the main culprit. You are better off crushing your own grain or ask the shop to double crush. Regardless, next time monitor gravity carefully when you are adding your sparge water

 

[Chanoc]

My opinion is that you had some channeling during sparging...
The sweet taste of your spent grains point to incomplete/inefficient removal of sugars from them.
The cause may be crush size or channeling which you describe in your sparging procedure...
Have you tried batch sparging?
In batch sparging you can stir and do a second vorlauf...
HTH

 

[Aristotelian]

4th brew, problems have been consistent. I'll try to have them double crush. Thanks!

I'm collecting more wort post boil than the recipe or Beersmith calls for. It said I would collect 5.5 into the fermenter, I am 6+ gallons.

Sounds like you are definitely not boiling off the expected amount and ending up with about 10% too much water. Combined with grain crush, that can definitely cause the low gravity you are seeing.

 

[kh54s10]

A reputable homebrew shop crushed the grain, it looked good based on what I know.

By batch Sparge, do you mean this?

After running off the whole firs 5 gallons after the mash time.
Stir up the second 3 gallons of water, wait 15 minutes, vourloff, and runoff? If so, target 152 degrees or the 167 “mashout temp”

You have 5 gallons for the mash, you will not get all 5 gallons out. There are equations for grain absorption. The sparge temperature is not critical. You don't need a mashout when batch sparging. That is a technique to stop the conversion when fly sparging at 45 minutes or longer. Then you have to bring the grainbed to 170 degrees.

Collect your first runnings, measure the volume, add what you need to get to your preboil amount. There is no need to wait 15 minutes, add the water, stir well, vorlauf then drain.

I'm collecting more wort post boil than the recipe or Beersmith calls for. It said I would collect 5.5 into the fermenter, I am 6+ gallons.

You now know that you do not boil off as much as described. Go into your BS equipment profile and lower the rate. You need this to get any accuracy.

My rig boils off 2 gallons per hour so I have to collect just over 7 gallons to end up with just over 5 gallons into the fermenter.

This is a large part of your problem.

 

[kh54s10]

Again, look at pictures on here showing grain crush. Almost all of your grains need to at least have the husk cracked open. If you have many whole grains the crush is adding to your problem.

Work on your volumes. You need to adjust this within Beersmith so it knows that you are using the right amount of water, then it will give you the proper amount of grain to get the results you want. If you just change the amount of water used without changing BS it will not adjust your grainbill accordingly.

 

[Gameface]

I'm kind of hazy on the sparge technique here.

But if the grain still tastes sweet then you did not thoroughly collect all of the sugars into the boil kettle. Those are OG points being left behind.

What is the efficiency set at in beersmith? 1.047 vs an expected 1.074 is pretty enormous. I'd start with a finer crush but also either do a batch sparge or improve the way you're fly sparging. I'll add details in a separate post.

 

[Gameface]

Batch sparging is pretty simple.

Perform your mash as normal.

When the mash is complete vorlauf like you did, then drain wide open into the boil kettle.

Once fully drained close the valve and add your sparge water to the mash tun.

Stir vigorously for a minute or two.

Vorlauf again and then go wide open again and let drain into the boil kettle.


That's it for a single sparge but some people sparge twice. Obviously you want enough water per sparge to have a mash that can be stirred and you don't want to end up with more in your boil kettle than you can reasonably boil down to your target volume, so a single sparge might be the only way to go.

For your current set-up I'd recommend that over the fly-sparge technique you've been using.

Once you've done a couple batches like that take the actual efficiency number beersmith gives you and plug that into your brewhouse efficiency number at the top for future recipes. That way you'll at least know what to expect based on your equipment and process.

If, over time, your efficiency goes up and stays up just adjust the brewhouse efficiency number to match your typical results.

 

[J187]

Whether you collected the proper amount of sugar from the grain depends of what your expected BH efficiency was in your recipe calculations. Your crush may or may not be an issue, but man, start with the obvious problem staring you in the face... as others have said, boil off. It is important to come close to predicted volumes. If you are boiling for an hour and only boiling off 1 quart, I would think not only is that an obvious issue in terms of not concentrating enough for gravity measurements to be accurate, but also I would wonder if you are boiling off any DMS precursors etc. Most brewers boil off 5 or 6 times more than that. I boil off 1.25 gallons in a 60 min boil using a rolling boil which isn't close to jumping out of the pot.