Traveling with kegs?

[Borneogoat]

I'm new to kegging and making 4x cornies worth of APA for a wedding. I'm brewing in 2x batches, because I have a system that can only make 10gal at a time. Then the kegs will travel in my pickup to the wedding, a multi-day drive away. Therefore the beer will travel warm and be kegged a few weeks to a month in advance. The beer will be served by jockey box on the big day.

My questions concern carbonation. My normal procedure is: beer goes in keg, keg goes in kegerator, CO2 is put at 30psi for a few days, and then turned down down to serving at 6psi. Mmm, cold bubbly beer!

In this wedding situation, should I just chill and carbonate the beer as normal? This would mean traveling with warm over-carbonated kegs. I presume when the kegs warm up in the truck (not hot, I have A/C, but maybe 70F/21C) the head space CO2 pressure will increase over 6pis, because warm beer = lower CO2 in solution. Also I can only carb 3x kegs at a time due to fridge capacity, so 2x kegs carbed and then removed to room temp and then carb the other 2x. The other option is to just keg the beer, flush with CO2, and then shake/force-carb at the destination. I worry about foamy beer with this scenario...

I'm probably over-thinking this, but I don't have any easy way to test my options and a wedding is big pressure for a good result!

 

[mjdonnelly68]

For what it's worth, I've been using Marhsall Schott's Brulosophy quick carbonation method for my last 12 or so kegs and it works great. You can see the blog post here: http://brulosophy.com/2016/05/12/sparkle-fizz-methods-for-carbonation/

I usually chill to 40 degrees and then set the keg under 40 PSI for 24 hours. Bingo - nicely carbonated beer. Not sure how far in advance you are traveling, but it would seem to me that you could adjust the PSI to account for the temp of your beer and use the same 1 day carbonation method on site. That way you wouldn't have to worry about the transport.

Good luck.

 

[jerbrew]

You'll have you Co2 with you so why dont you just adjust the headspace pressure of the kegs periodically according to the temp. For example, at 65F around 30 PSI will settle in around 2.5 volumes. If you hook up your CO2 and you're over purge a bit and settle in around 30. If you're under put some pressure on it. Your kegs should be pressure rated far greater than anything you'll see at reasonable temperatures.

 

[wilserbrewer]

If a keg is properly carbonated, warming it during travel and chilling it upon arrival will have zero effect on the carbonation, it will be the same as when it left your home brewery.

What concerns me most is that sediment in the keg will be kicked back up into the beer without time to settle when you get to your destination.

The best thing to do if traveling with kegs is to transfer the clear beer to a fresh clean keg before you hit the road.

It's pretty simple to do, attach liquid out lines together and reduce pressure in receiving clean keg while maintaining pressure in keg being transferred from.

Nice clear beer when you arrive.....priceless

 

[pigroaster]

I suggest going to a wine brew shop and purchasing wine kit plastic pails. Simply put kegs in pails and add ice if you are worried. I take beer to Az from my igloo in Canada so I leave at 20 below zero and drive 2600 miles south west to the heat. I put my kegs in plastic garbage bags over the pails (no icve) in case pressure blows the relief valve. At the destination leave alone and on the magic day put in pails with ice to pre-chill before beer goes in jockey box, relieve the head pressure on each keg and set C02 to 10. Should pour perfect. Sometimes I go to 12 PSI.

 

[akthor]

What he said.

If a keg is properly carbonated, warming it during travel and chilling it upon arrival will have zero effect on the carbonation, it will be the same as when it left your home brewery.

What concerns me most is that sediment in the keg will be kicked back up into the beer without time to settle when you get to your destination.

The best thing to do if traveling with kegs is to transfer the clear beer to a fresh clean keg before you hit the road.

It's pretty simple to do, attach liquid out lines together and reduce pressure in receiving clean keg while maintaining pressure in receiving keg.

Nice clear beer when you arrive.....priceless

 

[Borneogoat]

If a keg is properly carbonated, warming it during travel and chilling it upon arrival will have zero effect on the carbonation, it will be the same as when it left your home brewery.

What concerns me most is that sediment in the keg will be kicked back up into the beer without time to settle when you get to your destination.

The best thing to do if traveling with kegs is to transfer the clear beer to a fresh clean keg before you hit the road.

It's pretty simple to do, attach liquid out lines together and reduce pressure in receiving clean keg while maintaining pressure in keg being transferred from.

Nice clear beer when you arrive.....priceless

Thanks everyone for the advice. Regarding the sediment, I should have about 3 days for the sediment to resettle after traveling. I was already planning to transport the kegs standing up and snugly packed. But I may look into this transfer to a clean keg idea, if I have enough extra kegs to try it.

So it sounds like my plan should be: chill and carbonate the kegs as normal in kegerator, travel as discussed, don't worry that they warm up, and then chill before serving.

 

[wilserbrewer]

3 days to settle at your destination is about 10 too few IMO if you want to serve bright clear beer....jmo

 

[akthor]

Yeah transfer to clean kegs before you travel and leave that sediment behind. You only need 1 extra keg. Just clean the keg you transferred out of for your next clean keg.

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

ive done just what your taking about, first fill all your kegs to the top, keep the same carbonation that you want to serve with then its best to take your keezer and fill it with ice during the trip, warm beer will carbonate too high at the end of your trip so if thats the case just pull the release valves every 10 minutes to release the pressure and your set

 

[SGTSparty]

perhaps slightly off topic here but can someone explain the transfer to a clean keg logistics. I understand that at the end of a keg there is a bit of gunk on the bottom, below the dip tube, and that if you were transporting the keg that's going to get stirred up and cloud the beer. What I don't really understand is that, I fill a keg from primary and the first beer or two are full of gunk. Wont that same gunk get transferred to the clean keg too? sure that last bit may not but the first pints' worth of stuff will still be in the clean keg via the jumper and will still get stirred up during transport right?. What am I missing?

 

[wilserbrewer]

Transfer clean beer only to the clean keg.

Toss the first pint or two if that's murky. Also, all the sediment is not cleared with the first pint, just enough to suck clear beer at the dip tube, much more sediment is still in the keg that needs to be removed if you are going to travel and have clear beer at your destination.

The alternative is to try and clear your beer, cold crash the fermenter or secondary. While this will help, it will likely not be as effective as transferring clear beer keg to keg.

 

[akthor]

To me if you have that much gunk in your keg to begin with something is wrong with your process. Once my keg is cold and properly carbed I pour clear beer from the first pull. When I clean the keg when its empty there is a film on the bottom of the keg that only moves when disturbed.

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

perhaps slightly off topic here but can someone explain the transfer to a clean keg logistics. I understand that at the end of a keg there is a bit of gunk on the bottom, below the dip tube, and that if you were transporting the keg that's going to get stirred up and cloud the beer. What I don't really understand is that, I fill a keg from primary and the first beer or two are full of gunk. Wont that same gunk get transferred to the clean keg too? sure that last bit may not but the first pints' worth of stuff will still be in the clean keg via the jumper and will still get stirred up during transport right?. What am I missing?

first its best to have a conditioning vessel before your drinking keg, not always possible I know but its best so transfer to that keg or container, chill it for a week at 34 then pull that beer off the top into a drinking keg, that will almost eliminate any yeast or sludge in the bottom and make it a clearer beer for transport

also if your transporting a keg its best to have no head space, completely full to prevent splashing and creating oxidation so if that isn't possible, bleed out your head space several times before and after transporting

 

[wilserbrewer]

first its best to have a conditioning vessel before your drinking keg

Agreed, in my situation that is a keg if I plan to transport the beer.

Everyone's situations at a bit different, I keg in sanke kegs and there is a fair amount of volume under the dip tube which allows good settlement and clear beer if you don't move the keg much.

Always using a clearing vessel seems excessive to me, and unless your transfers are textbook perfect, there may be more to lose than gain by another transfer.

This is kinda like the secondary fermenter debate we've all heard.

Many ways to clear beer cheers!

 

[akthor]

If your keg is gonna sit in a kegetator/keezer and not get jostled around AND you didn't put a ton of trub into the keg to start with transferring to a clean keg is not necessary.

 

[Borneogoat]

Looks like I've fired up a good conversation!

The suggestions to keep the keg cold the whole trip are good, but not logistically feasible for this trip. I drive 4hrs, wait several hours to board a ferry, truck inaccessible for 12-14hrs on ferry, drive around for another 2-6hrs, and then arrive. Doesn't include packing/unpacking time and not owning fridge space at either end big enough for 4x cornies. It's also a little late to aim for no headspace, first batch is bubbling and will leave about 2L space per keg.

I'll look into the clean keg transfer. However, I'm already need to buy at least 3x new kegs for this operation, a 4th is pushing it. Especially since I don't generally need this many kegs. But maybe I can borrow an extra from somebody.

** Anyone got a good website clearly explaining the transfer operation? **

I think I should aim for clear beer from the start. Minimal trub into kegs, but that will add a little more headspace. Maybe I should waste a cloudy pint or two prior to traveling to reduce the yeast available for re-suspension on the road...

 

[doug293cz]

Looks like I've fired up a good conversation!

The suggestions to keep the keg cold the whole trip are good, but not logistically feasible for this trip. I drive 4hrs, wait several hours to board a ferry, truck inaccessible for 12-14hrs on ferry, drive around for another 2-6hrs, and then arrive. Doesn't include packing/unpacking time and not owning fridge space at either end big enough for 4x cornies. It's also a little late to aim for no headspace, first batch is bubbling and will leave about 2L space per keg.

I'll look into the clean keg transfer. However, I'm already need to buy at least 3x new kegs for this operation, a 4th is pushing it. Especially since I don't generally need this many kegs. But maybe I can borrow an extra from somebody.

** Anyone got a good website clearly explaining the transfer operation? **

I think I should aim for clear beer from the start. Minimal trub into kegs, but that will add a little more headspace. Maybe I should waste a cloudy pint or two prior to traveling to reduce the yeast available for re-suspension on the road...

I explained the transfer operation in this post.

Brew on

 

[Borneogoat]

I explained the transfer operation in this post.

Brew on

Thanks, that's very helpful! Just a couple questions, do I transfer flat beer or carbonated beer? Flat to avoid foamy issues, I think...

And I assume you chill for a couple weeks to settle the yeast, then transfer. Correct?

 

[Borneogoat]

Maybe this is a tangent, but should I consider using gelatin fining? Heard it works great on chilled beer, but never tried it. Prior to transfer, post transfer, or instead of transferring?

 

[The_Bishop]

I'm a firm believer in cold crashing and gelatin fining in primary, then racking clear beer into the keg. It makes things a lot easier down the line; moving kegs is no problem, serving lines and taps stay cleaner, cleaning kegs is much easier.

Fermenting gunk and residue should stay where it comes from, the fermenter.

 

[doug293cz]

Thanks, that's very helpful! Just a couple questions, do I transfer flat beer or carbonated beer? Flat to avoid foamy issues, I think...

And I assume you chill for a couple weeks to settle the yeast, then transfer. Correct?

I transfer carbonated beer, haven't had any foaming issues. The time to carbonate allows for some settling. The transfers I have done were after the keg was already pouring clear. Absolutely clear beer after transfer and transportation.

Maybe this is a tangent, but should I consider using gelatin fining? Heard it works great on chilled beer, but never tried it. Prior to transfer, post transfer, or instead of transferring?

Always do the fining before transfer, and transfer after the keg pours clear. I have done fining both in primary (before kegging), and in the keg. Both seem to work. I add the gelatin after chilling. Gelatin is not instead of transferring. I always have a little sludge in the bottom of the keg, and have found that just repositioning the keg in the keezer is enough to stir up enough of the sludge to cloud the beer.

Brew on

 

[Shawn0522]

I cold crash and then put into keg with gelatin so i can carb while it clears.

This is what i do to trasnfer clear carbonated beer to a serving keg. I only do this when i need to travel or move a keg prior to serving. I did not come up with this. Read it somewhere, maybe here. Take a clean keg and preasurize it to same psi as carbed beer. Then make sure full keg is above new keg (usually set full keg in table and new keg on floor). Hook up gas to gas on both kegs. This ensure head preasure on both kegs stays constant (no foaming at all). Then hook up liquid to liquid if beer doesnt start flowing on its own pull release on new keg real quick. It should start the siphon and keg will slowly flow to new keg. It does take like 20 min or so. I watch and if liquid line starts to run cloudy (very last little bit) then pull liquid line to stop transfer. No foam at all.

 

[Borneogoat]

Thank you all for the help. Wedding went off as smoothly as these things do and much fun was had. 80L of homebrew was the perfect amount, combined with commercial beer & other firewater, and nobody went home unintentionally sober! It took half way through the reception for most people to realize it was homebrew rather than commercial beer and I took that as a complement.

I never got around to clean keg transferring, time constraints. However, the beer was fairly clear with 3-days settling. Chill haze of course, but no excessive sediment and everyone thought the slight cloudiness was part of the craft-beer charm.

 

[jerbrew]

Good to hear. Glad it all worked out for ya and that the people liked it.