topping off after primary

[Papagayo]

If you don't have any reserve cider (fully fermented), what do you use to top off when you rack after primary fermentation? I'm referring to filling up the space that is left in the new carboy after having left the lees behind. Given the amount of lees I have, there will be a significant amount of air space. I'm guessing water would dilute the must too much. If I add fresh cider (I have some frozen), another round of primary starts up again.

Any ideas?

 

[roadymi]

I've heard of people using apple juice concentrate. It will still ferment out but it is a pretty clear products so you shouldn't add to your lees much. You are likely going to be aging this for awhile so the little bit you add now shouldn't matter much in several months.

 

[oldmate]

You can use apple juice, although I never bother with a secondary.

 

[gratus fermentatio]

I just put a little more than I'll need into primary. An extra quart (or 2) in primary will allow you to rack exactly the right amount without needing to top up. In the meantime, you could add some sanitized marbles to your secondary vessel, they'll take up space without altering your brew. Or you could top up with juice. You could also rack to a smaller vessel, or 2 smaller vessels; that'll leave you less space to fill if you have too much headspace. Regards, GF.

 

[Papagayo]

I love the marbles idea.

I think in the future, I will just make more in the primary to account for some loss when racking.

Thanks.

 

[nickdanger0479]

I'm very new to making cider, so forgive my ignorance. I'm testing gallon batches at a time, but what happens if there is air in the secondary? After racking, it's a little over 3/4 full - I never thought the excess space would affect it...

 

[JLem]

I'm very new to making cider, so forgive my ignorance. I'm testing gallon batches at a time, but what happens if there is air in the secondary? After racking, it's a little over 3/4 full - I never thought the excess space would affect it...

To oversimplify:
A lot of airspace = a lot of oxygen
Oxygen + alcohol = oxidized alcohol
Oxidized alcohol = not very tasty

 

[Kshock]

Is toping off with a commercial cider beer acceptable?

 

[excitingcidering]

I top off with whatever spare bit of apple juice I have sitting around. There always seems to be some as I prepare for my next batches. On the off chance that I'm brewing something with no apple in it (pear, berries, ginger) I try to keep or make some of the original juice. I do 1 gallon batches, so it's not a big deal to keep an extra pint or quart around. The volume and sugar content is such that it doesn't really start off another primary, just gives it a little kick to get a good CO2 barrier as it sits. Alternatively, i rack my gallons into a 3-quart and get a good glass of the flat brew to sample.

 

[Chalkyt]

I had the same problem this year. There was a lot of apple pulp (we juice our own fresh apples) in the primary which left quite a few inches of airspace after transferring to secondary. The brew is in one gallon carboys and is low enough for the exposed area to be about half the diameter of the carboy (there are some pics on a recent post of mine). I have given this a blast of argon (available in pressure pack cans from the liquor store and sold as a wine saver). Argon is heavier than air inert gas and so forms a barrier against the oxygen. It is commonly used as an "insulating" gas in double and triple glazed windows.

We will see how it goes but on future occasions (soon to do another batch) with these apples, I will do an extra pint or two of juice and keep it in the refrigerator for topping up. This might generate a bit of yeast muck in the bottom of the carboy once the new sugars have been gobbled up, so a tertiary racking might be called for once it has dropped to around 1.000 again.

Others may be able to tell you how long cider can sit in secondary before oxygen exposure will cause a problem.

I have to stress that this isn't an expert opinion by any means. Like you I am finding my way through the mysterious art of cider making.

 

[Chalkyt]

Just a thought... I like GF's idea of using sanitised marbles as this should also help avoid sucking up any sediment when racking again or bottling. Man, this forum is awsome!

 

[Harambe]

Others may be able to tell you how long cider can sit in secondary before oxygen exposure will cause a problem.

i just got done letting a 2ndary carboy sit only 3/4 full for like 2-3 weeks and had no problem with any negative flavor effect once i did bottle it. so i don't know how long it would have to sit for this oxygen thing to be a real problem.