nukinfuts29
Well-Known Member
Did you read any of my posts?
Tom Hargrave and Kegkits.com (www.ic3.gov)
- Thread starter bigpal
- Start date
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Did you read any of my posts?
Yeah, I read the whole thread. I'm glad you're getting a consolation prize. Should I not post my disgust for this guys ploys? The more people that speak out, the more likely it is to be deleted; which it should be.
nukinfuts29
Well-Known Member
Consolation prize? I take personal offense to that. In any event, being so understandably angry how can you not acknowledge a step in the right direction? He will probably never make it all right, but if he tries than that should count for something.
How is that offensive? You're not getting what you paid for and he wasn't offering to make it right. You outed him publicly (which I'm glad you did) and he's playing along. This guy is a scumbag! Besides, I don't understand why you needed to ask if I read your posts, seems a bit condescending. A tracking number and a prompt email aren't going to change my mind about this scam artist.
Of course it makes sense to play ball with someone in a public forum. What about the hundreds of other victims who aren't around here to be the poster children for a redemption campaign?
thargrav
Well-Known Member
This is Tom again from kegkits.com.
I would love to give people I hurt what I owe them but I can't because sales are not nearly where they were when I failed. If I stopped today and gave everything I have in inventory to customers I hurt I would have nothing left and would settle with MAYBE 10% of them. And then I would have no business at all and I would still owe many thousands of dollars to suppliers and my landlord.
But sorry, I can't do that. I have a obligation to my suppliers, landlord and family to try and make this thing work.
Also you need to understand that the easiest path for me to take would have been to restart. Then many of you would be happily buying from that new company not knowing it was run by me. A accoutant friend of mine told me that thay's the only way to move on and I'm starting to believe him.
And as far as the BBB is concerned? Yes I have a F rating with them and I earned it. I'm not proud of the rating but it is what it is. But dig a little deeper into the report and you'll see that 106 complaints were filed in the last 3 years but only one complaint was filed in the last 12 months! And most of the others were filed between 1.75 and 2.5 years ago!
And as far as me using this thread to promote my business? The last thing I'd do is re-activate a old, ugly thread just to have list members beat me up. I only responded to try and explain what really happened to kegkits.com.
I know that I won't change the minds of many list members and that's OK with me. Those of you in business probably understand and those of you who have gone through tough times or have failed in business really understand.
I would love to give people I hurt what I owe them but I can't because sales are not nearly where they were when I failed. If I stopped today and gave everything I have in inventory to customers I hurt I would have nothing left and would settle with MAYBE 10% of them. And then I would have no business at all and I would still owe many thousands of dollars to suppliers and my landlord.
But sorry, I can't do that. I have a obligation to my suppliers, landlord and family to try and make this thing work.
Also you need to understand that the easiest path for me to take would have been to restart. Then many of you would be happily buying from that new company not knowing it was run by me. A accoutant friend of mine told me that thay's the only way to move on and I'm starting to believe him.
And as far as the BBB is concerned? Yes I have a F rating with them and I earned it. I'm not proud of the rating but it is what it is. But dig a little deeper into the report and you'll see that 106 complaints were filed in the last 3 years but only one complaint was filed in the last 12 months! And most of the others were filed between 1.75 and 2.5 years ago!
And as far as me using this thread to promote my business? The last thing I'd do is re-activate a old, ugly thread just to have list members beat me up. I only responded to try and explain what really happened to kegkits.com.
I know that I won't change the minds of many list members and that's OK with me. Those of you in business probably understand and those of you who have gone through tough times or have failed in business really understand.
Tom should be in jail for his criminal actions. Businesses fail every day. This guy deliberately continued taking orders even when he knew he could not fulfill them. We're supposed to feel sorry for him now? I work very hard for my money and I'm upset that some of it helped keep this criminal operation afloat, which for some reason has continued to exist without repercussions. I don't wish bad things on anyone, but I do expect people to be accountable for their actions.
Nukinfuts, you weren't a member during the thick of this incident. A ton of members got screwed, and although it appears you were one of them, him making it right by you for a relatively small order does not fix the CRIMINAL behavior this (guy) exhibited while the incident was ongoing. As was stated by Masonsjax, he continued to take orders and process payments long after he was not even attempting to ship product, communicate with or reimburse customers. If the "great" state of Alabama did its duty, he'd currently be in jail. I believe it is very likely that he made right by whatever customers he had within the state, which stopped the local authorities from prosecuting him.
You stated in another thread that you were "in law enforcement". I've been a police officer for ten years, and I'd jump at the chance to lock this guy up for what he did. By NY laws, he committed grand larceny many times over and deserves to be prosecuted for it.
You stated in another thread that you were "in law enforcement". I've been a police officer for ten years, and I'd jump at the chance to lock this guy up for what he did. By NY laws, he committed grand larceny many times over and deserves to be prosecuted for it.
thargrav
Well-Known Member
This is Tom again from kegkits.com.
Where in any of these posts did I ask anyone to feel sorry for me? None!
Where in any of these posts did I say I was not at fault? None!
Where in any of these posts did I come up with any excuses? None!
Grand Larceny is a very strong charge that also implies intent. If you knew the law you would understand this. The business failed and I am more than willing to admit that the failure was my fault but I did not intend to hurt anyone. I also did not intentionally steal from anyone - I stopped processing orders the day I ran out of money and ran out of options.
And as far as being accountable for my actions?
I could have easily been unaccountable for my actions by filing bankruptcy against my suppliers & landlord and walking out from under over $40,000 in dedt. But no, I'm trying to do the right thing and pay them off & I have at least a year to go. I'm trying to be accountable to the debts I've created.
Also, I would love to ship everything I owe to the customers I hurt but there is simply not enough to ship. But it's obviuos from your comments that you simply don't believe this so I won't bother explaining because you will just turn explinations into excuses.
I posted the link before, but here's why I failed - again:
NON VENDOR LINK REMOVED
Thanks, Tom
Where in any of these posts did I ask anyone to feel sorry for me? None!
Where in any of these posts did I say I was not at fault? None!
Where in any of these posts did I come up with any excuses? None!
Grand Larceny is a very strong charge that also implies intent. If you knew the law you would understand this. The business failed and I am more than willing to admit that the failure was my fault but I did not intend to hurt anyone. I also did not intentionally steal from anyone - I stopped processing orders the day I ran out of money and ran out of options.
And as far as being accountable for my actions?
I could have easily been unaccountable for my actions by filing bankruptcy against my suppliers & landlord and walking out from under over $40,000 in dedt. But no, I'm trying to do the right thing and pay them off & I have at least a year to go. I'm trying to be accountable to the debts I've created.
Also, I would love to ship everything I owe to the customers I hurt but there is simply not enough to ship. But it's obviuos from your comments that you simply don't believe this so I won't bother explaining because you will just turn explinations into excuses.
I posted the link before, but here's why I failed - again:
NON VENDOR LINK REMOVED
Thanks, Tom
You hurt? Weird description. You really mean the people you scammed, stole from, screwed over, conned, swindled, fooled, duped, cheated, tricked, defrauded, deceived, etc.
Seems to me that people are getting the idea and stopped ordering from you because YOU ARE A SCAMMER. The point being you won't have any BBB ratings if no one orders from you.
Uhh, Airborneguy is a police officer.
gunner65
Well-Known Member
Wow just saw this thread for the first time and read it entirely. How can you even come to this site and spew your excuses? Glad I stumbled onto this post so that I did not accidentally buy anything from you or should I say get scammed by your service.
I just did a cursory search through the Alabama penal code and it is much different than NY's. For us, what he did would easily be grand larceny, a felony, but it seems like it may be a misdemeanor in AL. I'd love for someone from NY to report an interaction with this criminal to me so I can file the charges 
. The beauty of internet transactions is that one can be charged in the state where the purchase was made, not just the state where the perp's business is based.
. The beauty of internet transactions is that one can be charged in the state where the purchase was made, not just the state where the perp's business is based.
I have removed any links to the "said" posters web sites. We are erring on the side of non-censorship and allowing the public to speak.
If I have missed any links, let me know. Otherwise, I believe this thread is a stark exception to the phrase "there's no such thing as bad publicity".
nukinfuts29
Well-Known Member
I was here during that time frame, just unaware of what was happening.
Agreed, I'm not trying to say it fixes, erases, or justifies any of his absolutely criminal and immoral actions. All I am saying is it showed, albeit not forthcoming, some willingness and ability to attempt to make some kind of restitution. I would rather have something, some positive effort, than to be ignored and forgotten. Any effort, no matter how big or small, should be recognized and encouraged in the hopes of a greater scale of restitution.
Agreed.
I completely agree, except that if I was the judge I would personally defer jail time one year with ankle monitoring with an order that some type of active restitution began for any and all victims, no matter how large or small the scale. People cannot do so from a jail cell. He deserves jail time and I will never disagree with that.
Go back and read my posts, i'm in no way this guys "poster child" as one member called me, or coming to his defense, i'm as angry and outraged as every one of you. All I am saying is that restitution to the members of the community should be the absolute ultimate goal of this discussion, and perhaps this can be seen as even some glimmer of hope that if others step forward maybe they will find some peace in the end as well.
We cannot be so quick to attack the gesture, otherwise we will negate it's meaning rather than encourage it. And if we are not here to facilitate positive solution, then we are only here to propagate flaming and pointless negative agitation of an already ugly mess.
OntarioBeerKegs
Well-Known Member
As a vendor, I would be upset if this was a vendor I was sharing space and a target audience with.
As a person and a consumer this thread is invaluable and should be displayed and accessible as a caveat.
As a HBT sponsor removing this thread would do more potential harm to the community than letting it remain.
As a person and a consumer this thread is invaluable and should be displayed and accessible as a caveat.
As a HBT sponsor removing this thread would do more potential harm to the community than letting it remain.
- Joined
- Sep 5, 2006
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- Reaction score
- 46
"Hurt" sounds like you broke up with a girl just before Homecoming. You didn't "hurt" anybody. You stole from them. You continued to take orders and money from customers that you had no intention of supplying or repaying.
Running a business isn't easy. I opened my business in 1995 so for 16 years I've had many struggles but I never allowed a customer to place an order that I thought wouldn't be filled. Hell, I took our last dollars out of my daughter's saving's account to make payroll in 2003 while trying to survive the 9/11/2001 disaster.
You come on here pontificating about how "you were hurt". pppffttt.
People worked Saturdays and Sundays digging ditches so they could place orders on your web site while you, the engineer, decided you were no longer able to ship promised product and fulfill PAID orders.
You then run around this web site with some crappy altruistic attitude like you are just one of the guys and are here to help "the little guy".
I mean, let's face it. You ripped off a ton of people on this site and all across this country and now you're here with your hat in your hand playing like you are a changed person. I think that, given the opportunity, you'd steal from every person on this site just like you did the last several years.
Just about every thread I look at these days has this guy posting over and over. Trying to get your post count up?? Think about it, then type.....Make it worth our time......
Don't waste it...
Purpose served. Let's get back to brewing. 
EdWort
Well-Known Member
Since this thread is closed, Nuckinfuts29 asked me to post that he did receive his keg and his issue with Tom was resolved as promised.
Mickeymoose
Well-Known Member
Has anybody ordered from here? The 2 product CO2 regulator is about 30$ cheaper than I can find anywhere esle. That scares me a bit. Their other prices seem on par with other online dealers.
StoneHands
Well-Known Member
carlisle_bob
Well-Known Member
Hi
What are you looking for? There are very few items you can only get one place.
Bob
What are you looking for? There are very few items you can only get one place.
Bob
Darwin18
Well-Known Member
To the OP:
Go with Keg Connection. You will not be disappointed.
Go with Keg Connection. You will not be disappointed.
Darwin18
Well-Known Member
Hmm. I sure hope you do. I would Googled the business and would have found this:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f173/tom-hargrave-kegkits-com-www-ic3-gov-168035/
http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=1351.0
http://www.bbb.org/northern-alabama...tom-hargrave-sales-in-huntsville-al-900050886
The company has a "F" rating with the Better Business Bureau and 100 registered complaints.
I ordered the dual co2 regulator from this website earlier this year and would never buy from them again. It tooks four weeks and me bugging them with emails and finally phone calls before I heard anything about my order, even if it was confirmed or not. Two months after ordering the regulator it finally showed up, with a horrible packing job. Hooked it up and one of the valves was leaking. Didn't even bother trying to get it replaced by the company, just bought another valve from the local homebrew shop.
Don't waste your time or money with this place IMO
Don't waste your time or money with this place IMO
buzzkill
Well-Known Member
second that. they have done me and 3 of my brew brothers right.
thargrav
Well-Known Member
How are we supposed to fix something if we don't know it's broken? I would much rather you send the regulator in for repair than read about you complaining about something you did not give me a chance to rectify, after all the CO2 regulator is under warranty.
Darwin18
Well-Known Member
According to Dukeis84, it did take four weeks, multiple emails and phone calls to receive a CO2 regulator, and he received it either broken or defective. That's probably why he considered it not worth his time and effort, and moved on.
In spite of the "colorful" track record associated with kegkits.com, a year ago I ordered a six faucet stainless t-tower equipped with six 525SS faucets, beer lines and QDs, a six line manifold with shutoffs and integrated check valves, and a few other bits.
While it took a bit longer than I was comfortable with, and there were a few emails exchanged as a result, it all arrived in perfect condition, the quality was top-notch, and the price couldn't be touched by any other outfit I shopped.
I'm not advocating anything, just providing one case that worked out well...
Cheers!
While it took a bit longer than I was comfortable with, and there were a few emails exchanged as a result, it all arrived in perfect condition, the quality was top-notch, and the price couldn't be touched by any other outfit I shopped.
I'm not advocating anything, just providing one case that worked out well...
Cheers!
fwiw, my order arrived in the mail today, complete, and packed very well.
Good looking 4 outlet manifold - as nice as the 6 outlet one I bought a year ago!
Thanks, Tom.
Cheers!
Good looking 4 outlet manifold - as nice as the 6 outlet one I bought a year ago!
Thanks, Tom.
Cheers!
Mickeymoose
Well-Known Member
My order arrived on time and complete. Everything looks good, except the keg lube container broke. Tom, I would consider starting to ship those lube containers in a ziplock, it kind of got grease everywhere. Other than that, I am a satisfied customer, I haven't hooked it all together, manifold and regulator and such, but will let everyone know if it is all good. As of right now, I will order from there again.
thargrav
Well-Known Member
This is the first one I've had reported broken. Send me a PM with the name on the order and I'll send you another one.
Also, if anyone's asking we are short regulator parts again. UPS tracking tells me the parts will be in Friday - I guess we will have another busy weekend.
Mickeymoose
Well-Known Member
Tom,
Its in a plastic case that cracked, it didnt shatter or anything, but it cracked and leaked. I dont think i need a new jar of it, it is still full. Just kinda created a greasy mess, no harm though. I put everything together last night, and all seemed well. I will order from kegkits again.
Thanks
Its in a plastic case that cracked, it didnt shatter or anything, but it cracked and leaked. I dont think i need a new jar of it, it is still full. Just kinda created a greasy mess, no harm though. I put everything together last night, and all seemed well. I will order from kegkits again.
Thanks
thargrav
Well-Known Member
Thanks, I still believe I owe you one. Please remind me with your next order - I deal with so many orders that I will unintentionally forget.
I got a four way manifold from the and hooked it up had 7 leaks in it had to rip the whole thing apart and reseal all the threads,What a pain in the butt. .Don't think I I'll order anything from them again I've ordered from keg connection and never had a problem from anything I've ordered
This man robbed a lot of innocent homebrewers (myself included) many of the stories documented on this forum. He should be in jail. Why are people still willing to give him their money?
thargrav
Well-Known Member
I am not a HBT vendor but I do targeted pay per click ads and since this site displays pay per click some of my ads show up here.
I had requested to become a HBT vendor but the request was denied. I failed a little over three years ago and hurt a lot of people in the process, many of them members of this forum. I'm sure this has a lot to do with it.
I had requested to become a HBT vendor but the request was denied. I failed a little over three years ago and hurt a lot of people in the process, many of them members of this forum. I'm sure this has a lot to do with it.
OntarioBeerKegs
Well-Known Member
As a paying vendor who is in good standing with the BBB with 0, yes zero complaints with the BBB it is appalling you are here selling stuff. I have seen your arguments that you have dropped from 140 down to 100 BBB complaints. But in all honesty that is because you ran yourself out of business and time made the complaints drop off, not because you fixed them.
As a business man I should not be making a post such as this and airing dirty laundry on a public forum. I know this. As someone paying for advertising and finding someone like you getting the same benefits as me for free I am really pissed off. You should not even have a business license. I work extremely hard and fix every problem no matter how small, and you just shrug your shoulders for screwing people over intentionally as you keep your house of cards going.
In this thread alone you have admitted to:
-140 BBB complaints
-Only solving them because TIME made them elapse
-Not stocking more then a $23 dollar spool of hose and running out
-Having a vital part of a kegging store on back order (regulators)
-One week later having the same part on back order (regulators)
-Chastised a customer for posting online instead of contacting you
-AGAIN Chastised a customer for posting online instead of contacting you
-Not being a vendor but selling here
To sum it up.. I know as a vendor I should be on the sidelines just watching and not posting in fear that my words will reflect negatively on my brand and business image. But you Sir, you deserve to be outed to protect those consumers the vendors in good standing pay to court and provide a honest service with customer support for.
Here is a helpful hint for you:
If a customer had a problem with a order and posts about it online. You call them, and you make it right. Walk them through it even if it takes you all night. You do not give them **** for posting about it. They are the people putting food on your table.
