Today's views on using crystal malts on IPAs

[p_p]

Hi,
I've read and heard about how using crystal malts in IPAs is inapropriate, how the flavours from these malts will clash with the hops, etc.
Similarly, I've also heard claims that this conception is associated with historical under attenuation issues which are no longer relevant.

An IPA I love, recipe published by a commercial brewer, is made with about 15% of low colour crystal and quite a load of hops. It attenuates well and, in my humble opinion, is quite delicious.... I wonder what today's opinions are and how a beer like this would get seen by a BJCP judge.

Thanks

 

[leesmith]

I use crystal 20 quite often and it doesn't clash or seem out of balance. I use it more for color than any flavor contribution. It's hard as a home brewer to try different grains all the time since we (well most of us) are only brewing once a week or less. I know from experience that you want the beer your planning next to come out perfect and the thought of it coming out as merely a learning experience can be frustrating. But nothing will tell you more than trying it and seeing how it comes out. If you like it...that's what counts. If your friends like it...well that's good too.

For what its worth I did the "don't use crystal malts with IPA's" for a while and the beers were good (I used Munich in stead) but they were are also good made with crystal malts.

 

[JonM]

I brewed many IPAs over the last couple years with no caramel/crystal malts and was never happy with the results, so yesterday I went back to basics and brewed an IPA with about 1/2 lb of C-10.

 

[Redlantern]

My DIPA brewed with 5% 40 L scored 42 pts and was complimented highly by all three judges regarding malt bill.

I guess I am going to use crystal on my IPA's

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

I use them in my IPAs. Love the color they contribute. Heres a zombie dust with C60 I'm drinking now..Pretty beer indeed

 

[CUrchin]

I am not a fan of much if any crystal in my IPA's, but there are folks who are into it. Like anything else in homebrewing, try different things, see what YOU like.

 

[crusader1612]

Hi,
I've read and heard about how using crystal malts in IPAs is inapropriate, how the flavours from these malts will clash with the hops, etc.
Similarly, I've also heard claims that this conception is associated with historical under attenuation issues which are no longer relevant.

An IPA I love, recipe published by a commercial brewer, is made with about 15% of low colour crystal and quite a load of hops. It attenuates well and, in my humble opinion, is quite delicious.... I wonder what today's opinions are and how a beer like this would get seen by a BJCP judge.

Thanks

The issue stems from breweries and home brewers overloading their beers with crystal malts, causing them to under attenuate, or seem overly sweet and cloying. an IPA should be dry and hoppy.
for example -
and ipa that has more crystal malt than another, will seem sweeter, even if more hops are used in the crystal batch.

In Pale Ales I use crystal malts to get nice colourings and some balance to the hoppy profile.
In IPA's my crystal contributions are getting lower and lower. last one was pale munich and vienna not crystal and came out with a nice colour.

The other thing to consider (this is my own personal opinion) that when using crystal malts in an ipa, i dont use malts like munich or vienna, as they contribute a malt aspect as well, and to me making an ipa too malty defeats the purpose. So if you're going to use crystal it should IMO be 2-3% light coloured crystal and pale malt ( sometimes wheat malt can be a nice addition, but its not generally needed.)

 

[filthyastronaut]

There's nothing wrong with a little crystal, but lately I've bee reaching for around 20% German Munich and 5-10% Amber Malt to get a nice, dry malt backbone.

 

[mattdee1]

Yeah, I’ve heard the “no crystal in IPAs” thing and to me that just reeks of unfounded dogma. I’ve tried all kinds of IPAs with and without crystal malts and generally speaking, so long as all ingredients are used tastefully, I see no correlation whatsoever between the presence of crystal malt and how good the beer is.

 

[Weezy]

It comes down to what flavors you want out of the grain and hops, quite simply. As a brewer, it's just important that you understand what flavors and effects each malt is going to contribute to a given beer. Brew what you like (or what those who are going to drink it are going to like).

In darker hoppy beers, I'll use some darker crystals and they hold up just fine (who doesn't like Nosferatu or arrogant bastard?). In lighter, less malty beers, I'll use very light crystal or more often carafoam, when I don't want much malt character.

 

[Homercidal]

Guy, guys, guys! There is only ONE kind of IPA! you must remember that! There can be NO attempt to deviate from that formula! No Crystal malt is appropriate in ANY IPA!

We've seen the error of our ways, and that is a Bone Dry beer with no residual sweetness, NO body, and a shockingly bitter bite. It's gotta taste like sucking on a raw hop cone.

Adding any crystal malt will give it too much sweetness and body, and at some point that will rise to an almost "Balanced" beer. Definitely not what you want in an IPA.

Unless a balanced beer is what you are looking for. In that case maybe a small amount of crystal can help.

Nah, that's crazy talk!

 

[iX_Xi]

I have changed up my recipe and backed off all C40, C60. I'll use C20 instead. You might be able to use C40-60 in smaller quantities. What I found in my IPA recipe is that the carmalization you get is sometimes perceived as beer oxidation. I rebrewed using C20 and that aftertaste is gone.

 

[Queequeg]

I have dropped crystal completely and I have noticed the hops popping more. However the fullness of the beer is less than when using crystal. But I like hop tea so take my opinion with a pitch of salt.

One thing no crysrtal policy does do is make you use other character malts

I have had best success with approx 5% abbey malt, stuff is amazing

least success with amber, has no place in an IPA imo.

Honey malt in the current batch, initial indications are I don't like honey malt in an IPA.

 

[Homercidal]

I have dropped crystal completely and I have noticed the hops popping more. However the fullness of the beer is less than when using crystal. But I like hop tea so take my opinion with a pitch of salt.

One thing no crysrtal policy does do is make you use other character malts

I have had best success with approx 5% abbey malt, stuff is amazing

least success with amber, has no place in an IPA imo.

Honey malt in the current batch, initial indications are I don't like honey malt in an IPA.

I'm surprised at how little I like honey malt in most things. I kind of expected it to be more useful, but so far I'm disappointed. I'd never want it in a pale or IPA. Maybe an Amber or other malty beer or high ABV beer. it just seems an odd flavor in what I've used it in so far.

 

[kristiismean]

10%, i have read somewhere, 10% will not hurt your beer.

I switched from extract to all grain last year. I was doing light beer after light beer, amazed that I could get that golden yellow so easily so was not adding in any crystal, but not slowly sneaking in 5% c60 here for that redish color, or a little c20 to give it a little color.. etc. and still able to support a 7% 70 ibu beer with a great malty backbone.

 

[Queequeg]

I'm surprised at how little I like honey malt in most things. I kind of expected it to be more useful, but so far I'm disappointed. I'd never want it in a pale or IPA. Maybe an Amber or other malty beer or high ABV beer. it just seems an odd flavor in what I've used it in so far.

Yeah is definitely odd. I used 1/4lb in a IPA and its has a weird quality that I'm not sure about.

I might return to using crystal, just a touch of C20 with some abbey and see how it turns out. Next IPA will be a while off though

 

[Pappers_]

I keep it under 5% in APAs, IPAs and IIPAs. I have brewed IPAs with no crystal malts and enjoyed them, also.

 

[crusader1612]

I keep it under 5% in APAs, IPAs and IIPAs. I have brewed IPAs with no crystal malts and enjoyed them, also.

My house Pale Ale has 8% of a mix of biscuit and crystal.
with pale malt. so you can go higher with APA's, but with IPa's i like to kjeep it below 3% or have none at all.

 

[trav77]

There are plenty of IPAs out there with crystal in them and it's perfectly legit... it's just not that interesting to talk about because it is/was so commonplace. Much more interesting to have a discussion on eliminating them entirely.

I personally do both. Sometimes ~5% light to medium crystal. I don't really care for darker crystals in IPA... that I think does clash. I don't really get the clash from lighter crystal. Or... no crystal at all but I do find it benefits from something to give it a malt boost (victory, munich, etc.).

 

[brick_haus]

I use 5% c 10 and 5% Carapils in my IPAs. I also get a little malt character by mixing base malts. Usually at least 2 different base malts. I have choices of PA/MO/Pilsner/G. Promise.

 

[Homercidal]

Usually 10L or 20L for me if I use them in a Pale or IPA. Usually 1/2 lb. for a 5 gallon batch. It's just for a touch of sweet flavor to balance. I've enjoyed plenty of IPAs that didn't have any too.

 

[Queequeg]

Anybody use cara-Vienna? I am thinking this will blend better with abbey or aromatic than British crystal