To squeeze or not to squeeze

[brewprint]

I'm brand new to the BIAB method and have so far done 3 batches.

A 5.5 gallon batch where I hit mash temp too high of about 160. Ended up with a gravity about 10 points low. I squeezed the bag but not that much. There was not much leftover in the kettle.

A 3.5 gallon batch where I hit gravity spot on with about a half gallon leftover in the kettle. Really squeezed the bag.

Another 3.5 gallon batch that I ended up with at least a half gallon but probably more like a full gallon left in the kettle. Gravity was about 3 points lower than what I wanted but I attribute that to the left over wort in the kettle. Really squeezed the bag.

I'm probably hitting efficiency above 75% since I have so much left over in the kettle.

Is it necessary too squeeze the bag? It's hot and really a PITA IMO.

 

[Psylocide]

I squeeze until it's as dry as it'll get and have been hitting or exceeding my targets by a few points.

Yeah... it's hot. But, it's beer we're after and I'd jump through a ring of fire for the last six pack at the store.

They make gloves for reasons such as this... might help you out, but I use a large veggie tray for the grill over a 5 gal bucket and push down on the bag with the lid from my BK.

 

[PGEduardo]

Yes - I used those silicone gloves and they help but still get hot as ****.

Either you just mash more grains and don't squeeze, or cheap out and squeeze it like it owes you money. You pick your method, but be consistent so that you'll hit your numbers every time. Take good notes!!!

 

[TheBeerGuy]

I made a batch this weekend and out of 8# grains after sparging, squeezing and letting the remaining sit for the full 60 min boil in a SS bowl I hit my numbers +5%. Its what I've always done.

I agree with PGEduardo and be consistent and take good notes. It helps later when trying to make the same beer at a later date.

Also I found that using a SS grill flipper, or any flat SS piece of metal, does help compress the grains and squeeze more out and does not burn your hand.

 

[wilserbrewer]

I have found that merely letting the bag drain for 20 - 30 minutes will produce nearly the same amount as squeezing....so squeeze all you want, gravity is much easier, just let the bag drain....It does take a little patience, but squeezing only produces wort faster, not more wort.

Try just letting the bag drain while you are getting your boil going and add in the runnings to your boil. Squeezing is for those that like instant gratification, less work w gravity....same results.

 

[PhinneyWoodBrews]

Maybe somebody's already done this experiment, but I have a hard time believing bag drippings are of significantly higher gravity then the main volume of wort left after removing the bag. So it seems to me that squeezing is just getting more wort(future beer!) out. I do squeeze a bit as the wort is heating to a boil, but mostly let gravity and a colander do the work. I'll have to get out the refractometer next brew session to see about the gravity of bag squeeze drippings vs the wort. Cheers, all.

 

[shetc]

I squeeze the hell out of the bag every time. So far, I've been very close to or spot on for the OG.

 

[Billy-Klubb]

hahaha! y'all squeezing your bags! you dirty prebeers!

 

[CanAusBrewer]

Is it strange that I do this with my cooled wort to remove spent hops, especially in big IPAs?

 

[TexasWine]

I'm with Wilser on this one. Squeeze if you want instant gratification. Let it drip if you're patient.

Just remember if you let it drip to have enough boil time after you add your "drippings" to take care of things like DMS, protein coagulation, etc.

 

[calgary222]

I had an idea I was going to try for squeezing, before I decided just to let it drip. Untried, but I was going to attach a 8" 2x4 to my crane and then attach two hinged "arms" with paddles using leverage to squeeze the crap out of it. Anyway, I just grabbed two cutting boards against my forearms and got little more than I did after dripping (even with a 27# bill) so decided to shelve the idea.

 

[brewprint]

I had an idea I was going to try for squeezing, before I decided just to let it drip. Untried, but I was going to attach a 8" 2x4 to my crane and then attach two hinged "arms" with paddles using leverage to squeeze the crap out of it. Anyway, I just grabbed two cutting boards against my forearms and got little more than I did after dripping (even with a 27# bill) so decided to shelve the idea.

I like the cutting board idea. I'm going to give that a whirl next time. I just don't believe that letting the bag drain with gravity gets all the liquid out. No matter if it's 30 minutes or 60 minutes.

 

[Foosier]

I twist my bag right after pulling to get the wort out faster but once it slows to a dribble, I just throw the bag in a clean bucket. (I like using my bottling bucket for this.) once the boil gets rolling, I just lift the bag out and dump the wort out of the bucket. much easier than squeezing like it owes me money.

Honestly if you are worried about efficiency, crush your grain more. You don't have to worry about stuck mashes since you already BIAB. Crush that grain like it owes you money. You will be surprised at your efficiency. I make sure I get a good double crush and then don't even bother adding extra grains. I usually overshoot my gravity as a result.

 

[TexasWine]

I just don't believe that letting the bag drain with gravity gets all the liquid out. No matter if it's 30 minutes or 60 minutes.

Remember, no matter how much you beleive in something, it might not be true.

I beleived in Santa Claus for a long time. I got wind he might not be real, so I tested it out myself. I pretended like I was asleep on Christmas Eve and heard my parents get up from their bed and put presents out. My own experience confirmed what others had told me.

I'd suggest taking a similar approach.

 

[brewprint]

Remember, no matter how much you beleive in something, it might not be true.

I beleived in Santa Claus for a long time. I got wind he might not be real, so I tested it out myself. I pretended like I was asleep on Christmas Eve and heard my parents get up from their bed and put presents out. My own experience confirmed what others had told me.

I'd suggest taking a similar approach.

Lol

How about you do an experiment and let your bag drain for 1 hour. Then with the same grain squeeze it. Measure how much liquid comes out.

It's logic not Santa Claus.

 

[jahdub]

I used to use the double bucket method. Now I just drain over the kettle until it comes to a boil (usually 10 minutes or so) then give a light squeeze with the lid to my kettle + another stainless lid I have.

I'd like to try draining only, but I'm usually drunk and impatient when I brew.

 

[balrog]

+1 with Foosier. I've only done 4 BIAB but with a smaller BK I do partial boil so I'm actually mashing 1.25qt/# and dunk sparking in a gallon or 2 for 10m, then boiling just under 3.5 gallons, adding the last couple of cups of drips 10m into the boil. It's consistent, but my batches have all been 9.5-11.5# grain, double milled, about 72-75% eff, and as long as it is repeatable, I'm happy.

 

[MarshmallowBlue]

I do a dunk sparge in my brew bucket. I take the bag out and soak it in another container for 20 minutes. It's gotten me a 3-5% better efficiency over draining / squeezing alone. I know it's not officially BIAB after you another vessel, but I'll take the extra points over being a 100% BIABer

 

[brewprint]

Duplicate post due to mobile app failure.

 

[firerat]

I'll squeeze my bag (giggity) until it's just dribbling out (giggity giggity) then put the bag in a strainer and let the rest drip out into a bucket until there is like 40 minutes or so left in the boil. Then I add the drippings

There's usually not much dripping left, but every bit helps right?

 

[Oginme]

Maybe somebody's already done this experiment, but I have a hard time believing bag drippings are of significantly higher gravity then the main volume of wort left after removing the bag. So it seems to me that squeezing is just getting more wort(future beer!) out. I do squeeze a bit as the wort is heating to a boil, but mostly let gravity and a colander do the work. I'll have to get out the refractometer next brew session to see about the gravity of bag squeeze drippings vs the wort. Cheers, all.

I've done this several times. The squeezings give you just about the same gravity as what is in the kettle.

When you sit and think about it, it makes sense. You really cannot squeeze the bag enough to compress the grains themselves. All you are really doing is forcing the grain particles closer together and liberating the free water volume that exists between the particles.

Now if I were to put the bag into my wife's cheese press... aside from not being alive to report on the results, I would suspect that I could put enough even pressure to liberate more water from within the grains...

 

[rhys333]

I squeeze and rinse my bag. Oh yes.

I just lift from the pot, drain a few moments then rest in in a colander on top of a 5 gal pale. I then squeeze a moment and transfer the wort. Bag gets dropped into the now empty bucket, dump in a gallon of water, swish around, and runnings are transferred again. Bag goes back into the colander for a final rinse over the top of the grains, then one final squeeze. Takes mere moments while the wort raises to a boil, almost no extra effort and I get decent batch sparge efficiency.

 

[SquidPope]

I use a large veggie tray for the grill over a 5 gal bucket and push down on the bag with the lid from my BK.

Why have I never thought of doing that?! I even have a round perforated baking sheet that would fit perfectly over my brew kettle. Cheers for the idea

 

[DeMerchant]

I actually use a colander, but I put mine upside down at the bottom of a 5gal bucket and set the grain down on top to drain. Then I'll use a tea kettle to dump about 4L of sparge temperature water into the grain to increase the 'runnings'. I let that drain away happily while the rest of my wart comes up to temperature, then pull the grain bag (I have been known to squeeze a little at this stage) and add what's in my bucket to my boil kettle.

And I would note that generally I've found this sparge/drain wort to come out at about the same OG as the rest of my wart (~20L) but since you're increasing the water you're efficiency should go up. Now I haven't compared to just putting the full ~24L (plus absorption) in my mash tun as it really fills that thing up, but none the less, that's what I do.

I generally get about 75% efficiency.

 

[brewprint]

I've done this several times. The squeezings give you just about the same gravity as what is in the kettle.

When you sit and think about it, it makes sense. You really cannot squeeze the bag enough to compress the grains themselves. All you are really doing is forcing the grain particles closer together and liberating the free water volume that exists between the particles.

Now if I were to put the bag into my wife's cheese press... aside from not being alive to report on the results, I would suspect that I could put enough even pressure to liberate more water from within the grains...

This is what I thought. Squeezing gives more water with the same gravity. Therefore there is no need to squeeze.

 

[shetc]

Whatever

 

[BillySpivitz]

Mr. Whipple says no.

 

[TexasWine]

Lol

How about you do an experiment and let your bag drain for 1 hour. Then with the same grain squeeze it. Measure how much liquid comes out.

It's logic not Santa Claus.

Before you declare logic trumps experience, keep in mind that lot's of other folks on here have done this, and they're telling you and me that that get very little to no benefit from squeezing if they let the bag drain for 20 or so minutes.

Since Santa isn't very convincing, let's use a brewing example. For years people have repeated the mantra of a minimum 60 minute mash. I followed this without question until some time last year someone on this forum suggested they got good results with a shorter 30 minute mash. Well, I tried it. And it worked. And now that's what I do as standard practice.

The world was flat at one point, and the earth was the center of the universe. That was logical. So my challenge to you would be to try it before drawing any logical conclusions.

 

[MaxStout]

I got into the habit of hoisting up the bag and letting it drip into the kettle while I fired up the boil. After about 20 minutes and the boil starts rocking I set the bag in a bucket. Later, when I'm cleaning up after brewing, I check that bucket. Maybe a couple ounces of wort. I didn't miss much by not squeezing.

 

[vNmd]

I press a little after letting it drain. I also leave the bag in a collendar to let it drip some more through the boil. It leaves the grain nice and dry so I can bag it.

 

[Black Island Brewer]

I have found that merely letting the bag drain for 20 - 30 minutes will produce nearly the same amount as squeezing....so squeeze all you want, gravity is much easier, just let the bag drain....It does take a little patience, but squeezing only produces wort faster, not more wort.

Try just letting the bag drain while you are getting your boil going and add in the runnings to your boil. Squeezing is for those that like instant gratification, less work w gravity....same results.

+1 on this. Since following this advice, I get less particulates in the wort because I'm not squeezing the bag. I let it hang until the boil just begins, and am right at my volume.

 

[photobru]

At the last homebrew meeting someone said to try using an oven rack over the kettle, so I'm going to try that on my next brew. You could either press down on it with your kettle lid or just let it drain while bringing to a boil. I'm pretty tired of my hands getting cooked through my kitchen gloves, not to mention hot wort dripping down my arms.

 

[RM-MN]

I see the point to just letting the bag hang over the pot until it drips out but I have limited time to brew and I don't have a pot big enough to make my batch size without a sparge step. Letting the bag hang for 20 minutes to drip out, then sparging, then waiting another 20 minutes for that to drip out just won't cut it. I'll admit, I'm a squeezer, and I squeeze hard. That gets most of the wort out so when I do add sparge water it won't be adding to any wort in the bag of grains. That lets me dissolve a little more of the sugars. While I squeeze the bag the wort is heating in the pot and by the time I get the last wort squeezed out the pot is nearing the boil. By squeezing that bag so hard, the grains are dry enough that I can carry the grains out to dispose of without dripping on the floor or needing another bucket to carry them in to catch the drips.

 

[brewprint]

Before you declare logic trumps experience, keep in mind that lot's of other folks on here have done this, and they're telling you and me that that get very little to no benefit from squeezing if they let the bag drain for 20 or so minutes.

Since Santa isn't very convincing, let's use a brewing example. For years people have repeated the mantra of a minimum 60 minute mash. I followed this without question until some time last year someone on this forum suggested they got good results with a shorter 30 minute mash. Well, I tried it. And it worked. And now that's what I do as standard practice.

The world was flat at one point, and the earth was the center of the universe. That was logical. So my challenge to you would be to try it before drawing any logical conclusions.

Let's think about this for a moment.

A suspended grain or split grain shell is suspended in the bag full of water and the grain is also full of water. Gravity and the weight of other water filled grains are compressing the grain. Some water is being released from the grain and getting trapped into another and so on and so forth.

The bag drains for an hour. Then the bag gets squeezed and a bunch more water comes out.

My point here is that it would take a very long time (more than 30 minutes) for gravity to accomplish this.

I wanted to know if the OG would be the same. I found out that it would (or be very close).

Conclusion: The only reason to squeeze the bag is to make up for water lost to achieve the correct volume with the end batch.

 

[Oginme]

This is what I thought. Squeezing gives more water with the same gravity. Therefore there is no need to squeeze.

If you want to leave all the water and sugars behind, it's your choice. For me, it's a matter of about a 6% increase in extraction efficiency. I recover about 1 liter of wort by squeezing out of an average of about 14.5 liters captured all together. If I did not squeeze, I would need to add an additional liter of water and proportional amount of grains to get the save volume/gravity out.

This especially helps when doing higher gravity recipes.

 

[TexasWine]

I wanted to know if the OG would be the same. I found out that it would (or be very close).

Conclusion: The only reason to squeeze the bag is to make up for water lost to achieve the correct volume with the end batch.

Sounds like we've had some miscommunication. When you said this....

Is it necessary too squeeze the bag? It's hot and really a PITA IMO.

I thought you were asking if it was necessary to squeeze the bag. Did I misread something?

I myself am a bag squeezer because, like RM-MN, I'm limited by my equipment so I do a sparge. Though I suppose it is feasible to do a gravity drain even with a sparge step, but that's another topic.

The bag drains for an hour. Then the bag gets squeezed and a bunch more water comes out.

My point here is that it would take a very long time (more than 30 minutes) for gravity to accomplish this.

Sorry, but we're just gonna have to agree to disagree on this. From what I can tell you have never tested this for yourself and the claim that "a bunch more water comes out" is simply conjecture. If you read through this thread you'll see several people claiming the opposite. I'm not saying you'll get nothing, but from the experience of others it sounds like it would be very, very little, maybe a few ounces.

Do what works for you and have fun. Like I said, I'm not anti-squeezing. Just trying to answer the question that was asked originally. And if you end up building a nifty bag press, share the pictures!

 

[ArcLight]

>>Is it necessary too squeeze the bag? It's hot and really a PITA IMO.

1 - Don't be a hero, buy a pair of heat resistant synthetic gloves from Home Depot/Lowes for around $15. You can squeeze long and hard with them.

2 - Its the MANLY thing to do. Don't be a SISSY BIABer, be a MANLY BIABER.

Actually - what I do is squeeze, and use an oven grate on to of my pot and press down on the bag. Then place the bag in a second pot of warm water, stir it up, squeeze (MANLY he man style) again, then pour into the main pot.

This gives me an additional 10% extraction. I think without any squeezing or dunk sparging I'd get 15% less extraction.
And I'd lose (MANLY) bragging rights.

(many BIABers don't dunk sparge, they use the gravity method. When I suggested squeezing the Australians told me to not worry about it - use an extra pound of grain if I was that concerned - make your brew day easy - and drink a beer instead)

 

[Psylocide]

Biggest reason I do it is to get on with the brew day... I don't have a pulley rigged up (yet) to raise it and let it drip and I like to clean all my pre-boil stuff while I'm heating to boil. My wife is much happier when everything from the mashing process is put away before the boil starts.

That's really what is important here.

 

[ArcLight]

1. The extra liquid from squeezing has a higher gravity that what is left in the pot when you pull the bag.

2. I've not used the gravity method and if it works well, then it should be considered because its easy and takes no time. (but it's not MANLY which is the real purpose of brewing )

3. If you use the gravity method, then you are leaving some excess sugars behind. What you might want to do is give the bag several minutes to drain, then release the tension and pour in a liter or water - to replace the liquid that ran off - to extract some more sugar. Let it drain some more - you can pour the runnings into the boil later on.

 

[wobdee]

I've tried both and when I just let gravity do its thing for 30-45 min I find I can still squeeze about 8-10 ounces of wort out of a 6 lb grain bill for a 2.5-3 gal batch. I'll stick with squeezing for time savings and the little extra wort but I don't squeeze the piss out of it either.