Tips for the Infamous "super hoppy" IPA/IIPA

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As in aging. I know IPAs are meant to be consumed young, and I do my darndest to comply, but the 2 or 3 that I've FWH & 5 min countdown/whirlpool'd have seemed to only hold up weeks, while those that get a 30-50IBU (or more) @ 60 min last longer. I just finished a IIPA from late Jan that had 4 oz @ 60 (with a pound total) that was still everything it started out as.
 
logdrum said:
As in aging. I know IPAs are meant to be consumed young, and I do my darndest to comply, but the 2 or 3 that I've FWH & 5 min countdown/whirlpool'd have seemed to only hold up weeks, while those that get a 30-50IBU (or more) @ 60 min last longer. I just finished a IIPA from late Jan that had 4 oz @ 60 (with a pound total) that was still everything it started out as.
Click to expand...

Interesting. I bet there is something else going on there as well. I did a hoppy barleywine with my stated hop schedule (FWH, 20, 15, 10, 5, FO, DH) and it was...dare I say it...too hoppy for too long. I was closing in on three months before I could even get a sense of the malt profile.

I did the same thing with a hoppy saison. Granted, I used citra so I knew it would be potent. But I actually thought I didn't control the fermentation temps enough as their was almost no saison characteristics to it. Months later, the hops faded and its was decent, not strong, but decent. The final bottle tasted like a subtle-hopped saison. Lesson learned.
 
[B said:
Tip #5:[/B] Science! Yes, we are talking about mash pH and water profiles specifically. I think there really is a sweet spot for hoppy beers in terms of both of these subjects. For mash pH, I'd say its 5.4 to 5.6. For me personally, its 5.45. I watched the Brew & Chop episode on heady topper and a mash pH range of 5.1 - 5.3 was mentioned for the best environment for hoppy beers. I immediately brewed two beers under 5.2, a couple in the 5.2 range and one 5.35. They were a mess...muted, yeast forward. Someone later email and learned that this was not the correct temp for a pH reading and it translated to basically the standard range. Lesson learned.
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Great article! Thanks for posting.

I'm confused here are you saying here about the pH. Were you using the incorrect temp range to check your pH? What are you really saying is the best pH in your experience?
 
#6 mentions mash temp, but I think you mean fermentation temp.

I like Pacman yeast for dry hoppy beers, it attenuates a little more and doesn't suffer from those peachy esters you can get under certain conditions with Chico.

Brett Trois or Conan are good choices if you do want some fruity esters that complement the hops.

My experiments have shown that dry hopping works much better at around 70F. I was previously hopping in the low 60s and wasn't happy with the aroma, now I can get awesome aroma from less hops.

Good write up, thanks.
 
pmcint01 said:
Great article! Thanks for posting.

I'm confused here are you saying here about the pH. Were you using the incorrect temp range to check your pH? What are you really saying is the best pH in your experience?
Click to expand...

John stated that you want your mash pH between 5.1 -5.3 but he didn't mention the temp at which he took the reading. Apparently it was not at room temp which would translate to 5.4 - 5.6. I didn't know this at the time and did some low mash pH experiments with the pH around 5.2 -5.3 AT ROOM temp. Bad idea of hoppy IPAs.

masonsjax said:
#6 mentions mash temp, but I think you mean fermentation temp.

I like Pacman yeast for dry hoppy beers, it attenuates a little more and doesn't suffer from those peachy esters you can get under certain conditions with Chico.

Brett Trois or Conan are good choices if you do want some fruity esters that complement the hops.

My experiments have shown that dry hopping works much better at around 70F. I was previously hopping in the low 60s and wasn't happy with the aroma, now I can get awesome aroma from less hops.

Good write up, thanks.
Click to expand...

Great catch, edited. I'll start updating in that second post later today as we get more and more info.
 
logdrum said:
As in aging. I know IPAs are meant to be consumed young, and I do my darndest to comply, but the 2 or 3 that I've FWH & 5 min countdown/whirlpool'd have seemed to only hold up weeks, while those that get a 30-50IBU (or more) @ 60 min last longer. I just finished a IIPA from late Jan that had 4 oz @ 60 (with a pound total) that was still everything it started out as.
Click to expand...

I did a series of batches where I deliberately took the mash pH higher 5.5-5.6 and out of the typical range (and KO was higher) I found that the hops faded FAST. But mash pH is only part of the equation. If you are not acidifying sparge you might want to try that. I acidify sparge to mash pH (5.4 for IPA) KO wort is 5.2ish. Not saying it's a cure, but it is well known if final beer pH is higher than 4.5 then shelf life (mostly hop character) is affected.

Let me know if you need some help with keeping the taps fresh... :D
 
masonsjax said:
My experiments have shown that dry hopping works much better at around 70F. I was previously hopping in the low 60s and wasn't happy with the aroma, now I can get awesome aroma from less hops.
Click to expand...

+1
Also did a bunch of experiments with dryhop temps and concur higher temps worked best for me too.
 
Calichusetts said:
Interesting. I bet there is something else going on there as well. I did a hoppy barleywine with my stated hop schedule (FWH, 20, 15, 10, 5, FO, DH) and it was...dare I say it...too hoppy for too long. I was closing in on three months before I could even get a sense of the malt profile.



I did the same thing with a hoppy saison. Granted, I used citra so I knew it would be potent. But I actually thought I didn't control the fermentation temps enough as their was almost no saison characteristics to it. Months later, the hops faded and its was decent, not strong, but decent. The final bottle tasted like a subtle-hopped saison. Lesson learned.
Click to expand...


True, the entire brew schedule-grain bill, hop choice etc needs to be considered. That above mentioned IIPA was actually 4 oz. (2 Warrior 2 Chinook) @ 90 min, not 60 : ) I prefer a decent bite in my IPAs & have actually been knocked down competition points for being too smooth.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew
 
zwiller said:
I did a series of batches where I deliberately took the mash pH higher 5.5-5.6 and out of the typical range (and KO was higher) I found that the hops faded FAST. But mash pH is only part of the equation. If you are not acidifying sparge you might want to try that. I acidify sparge to mash pH (5.4 for IPA) KO wort is 5.2ish. Not saying it's a cure, but it is well known if final beer pH is higher than 4.5 then shelf life (mostly hop character) is affected.



Let me know if you need some help with keeping the taps fresh... :D
Click to expand...


I'm always within .01 or .02 of 5.4 pH for the mash, and I've been acidifying my sparge to 6 pH, perhaps I'll try a bit lower. I honestly haven't ever checked my KO wort pH! Next brew!


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew
 
As an european brewer, my US/NZ aroma hops are going through at least like 3 warehouses before they are shipped to me. A lot of the times the LHBS repackages larger packages into smaller 1-5 ounce packs. While the larger packages were probably stored/packaged properly by the US/NZ seller, the LHBS puts them into small plastic boxes and similar things (no vacuum or CO2) and at best store them in a normal fridge, not a freezer.

Do you guys think it would be better for me to buy hops from the US sellers and get them shipped to me via USPS? That means around 2-3 weeks of shipping.
 
You should buy from LabelPeelers.com. They sell all their hops in original packages from Hop Union, always under vacuum. I understand they make shipping overseas a breeze. I bought from them tons of times and almost always they've thrown in extra hops, sometimes a few ounces, but once or twice I got a random pound of last seasons hops for free! Sign up for their newsletter and it'll alert you of deals they have all the time. The last sale, ended last night unfortunately, was 20% off everything in the store and buy one get one free on pounds of Amarillo pellets! Needless to say they got $125 from me.
 
pickles said:
You should buy from LabelPeelers.com. They sell all their hops in original packages from Hop Union, always under vacuum. I understand they make shipping overseas a breeze. I bought from them tons of times and almost always they've thrown in extra hops, sometimes a few ounces, but once or twice I got a random pound of last seasons hops for free! Sign up for their newsletter and it'll alert you of deals they have all the time. The last sale, ended last night unfortunately, was 20% off everything in the store and buy one get one free on pounds of Amarillo pellets! Needless to say they got $125 from me.
Click to expand...

They can't ship to my country :(

edit: i found some who can
 
Otter Marris/Amarillo IIPA in the books as of Friday night.

First time using my new LHBS grain mill, very nervous about changes I could get from the system. Double crushed it and still was worried about it but I hit my OG, 1 point over.

Caramelized 1 cup of first runnings as I like the results in IPAs/IIPAs with no crystal/caramel. Slight hint of sweetness but nothing residual. Volume numbers gave me a 90 minute boil to the minute. Here is a nice breakdown the of the recipe:

OG: 1.083
SRM: 8.1

Marris Otter: 88%
Flaked Wheat: 7%
Rice hulls (Don't normally calculate this in my grain bill, threw off my mash temp for a few minutes too): 3%
Brown Sugar: 2%

Hop Schedule:
FWH: 26 IBU
20-5 minute additions: 41 IBU
Flameout/steep: 11 IBU

Don't really like beersmith for flameout/steep additions and IBUs but followed my own tips...about 1/3 of hops in the boil, and 2/3 after. Took 75% of my POST boil hops and threw them in at flameout. Put the pot in the sink with just some cold water to bring it down to sub-180 in about 15 minutes. Removed it and added the remaining and let is sit for 20.

Chill, bubbling away as we speak. High krausen has already peaked and its chugging away but settling down. I'll wait for krausen to drop completely, then give it a week and start dry hopping.
 
Thank you all for a great thread. I followed a link here from another hop discussion. My APA and IPA could use a bit more hop. I do notice that the last few bottles filled, containing some hop residue, have a wonderful flavor and aroma. That supports the idea of bigger dry hops.
But mostly I'm posting to subscribe.
 
I can't remember what was said in this thread, but this is what I've found to get the most hop punch:

- Up the sulfate level. I've done up to 400 ppm, but that high might not be necessary. >200 ppm is probably good enough.
- Use a hop stand. My method is to cool to ~180, remove the immersion chiller, add the hops loose, stir and cover. Open the lid and stir every five minutes for around 30 mins.
- Use multiple dry hops. Preferably the last one in the keg (and maybe at room temp; I haven't done this enough to know if the room temp matters).
- It's probably not necessary, but I love using hop extracts. I think they are great because you avoid so much hop matter in your kettle and fermentor and less wort is sucked up by the hop pellets.
- Keg before 2 weeks and start drinking when it's carbed for a fresh IPA.
 
Thanks Mtn. That stuff was covered above, but bears repeating. I'm reading Strong's Brewing Better Beer and Miller's Brew Like a Pro. Both talk about brewing water. Long
Island has excellent drinking water, very clean. But low on sulfate too. I just ordered some gypsum.
 
I would be interested in learning a bit more about the use of hop extracts. Can anyone chime in on how much to use, when and what the results were like? I know that commercial brewers use hop extracts in their high IBU beers to prevent the large amounts of hop material, etc.

I would be interested in giving it a shot to up my game on my IBUs. I only brew IPAs and generally prefer them to be as hoppy as possible without detracting from the overall profile.
 
I went to my lhbs and noticed wyeast has a west coast ipa yeast. Im plannin on doing a 3 gal batch and splitting it up into 3 one gallon batches to compare Rogue pacman, my go to ipa yeast, against us05, and the ipa yeast
 
What about hop additions at the 20,15,10,5 min? Are they worth doing or would taking those hops and splitting them between a flame out and then a whirlpool addition be better for getting the most flavor? I also am struggling with getting that super hoppy beer and thus far all my batches have been the standard timing additions.
 
gotbags-10 said:
What about hop additions at the 20,15,10,5 min? Are they worth doing or would taking those hops and splitting them between a flame out and then a whirlpool addition be better for getting the most flavor? I also am struggling with getting that super hoppy beer and thus far all my batches have been the standard timing additions.
Click to expand...

I think you need either a FWH or 60 minute addition & then a relatively large flame out & whirlpool addition of anywhere from 4-6 oz each per 5-6 gallon batch.

30 min hop stand @ flame out. Reheat to 180 & then add the whirlpool hops for an additional 30 minutes. All while continuously recirculating..

2-4 oz dry hop for 7-10 days @ ale pitching temps. I prefer a contrasting hop or hops in the dry hop. Cascade/Centennial types late followed by dry hops of Simcoe/Amarillo/Columbus, or vice versa.
 
cantrell00 said:
I think you need either a FWH or 60 minute addition & then a relatively large flame out & whirlpool addition of anywhere from 4-6 oz each per 5-6 gallon batch.

30 min hop stand @ flame out. Reheat to 180 & then add the whirlpool hops for an additional 30 minutes. All while continuously recirculating..

2-4 oz dry hop for 7-10 days @ ale pitching temps. I prefer a contrasting hop or hops in the dry hop. Cascade/Centennial types late followed by dry hops of Simcoe/Amarillo/Columbus, or vice versa.
Click to expand...

This is how I do my IPAs too. Ill sometime have a 10min addition of only like 1oz if i really want to stress that hops flavor, but IME most boil additions aside from the 60min are a waste. And its not a hopstand if its got less than half a pound
 
theres someone here (aprichman?) that is planning something like 3lbs of more in a hopstand. Hes gonna need some serious straining method to squeeze out the wort

but yeah I typically do between 8 and 12 oz divided into 2 additions. One at flameout the other at ~180F. I figure the 180F addition gets more aroma, less taste so i place my hops accordingly
 
m00ps said:
theres someone here (aprichman?) that is planning something like 3lbs of more in a hopstand. Hes gonna need some serious straining method to squeeze out the wort

but yeah I typically do between 8 and 12 oz divided into 2 additions. One at flameout the other at ~180F. I figure the 180F addition gets more aroma, less taste so i place my hops accordingly
Click to expand...

Ok.. Yeah, that I see.

I misunderstood. I thought you were saying 8 oz in the hopstandl and then another 8 oz in the whirlpool.
 
Heh. True.

I did a Maris/Munich/Vienna base once with a ctz & ahtanum FWH.

Then 1.5 oz each of chinook, cascade, & centennial hopstand.

Followed with 1.5 oz each of ahtanum, amarillo, & cascade whirlpool.

3 oz simcoe, 1 oz cascade dry hop.
 
I apologize if I missed it in this thread, but what hoppy ipa or double ipa commercial brews would you rate the highest?
 
kevink said:
I apologize if I missed it in this thread, but what hoppy ipa or double ipa commercial brews would you rate the highest?
Click to expand...

Cigar City Jai Alai
Heady
Hop, drop & roll, NODA

Too many to list honestly.
 

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