Time to Step it up a little. What to do.

[wikki]

So far I have brewed two batches of extract beer. They were both "kits" I got from the local home brew shop with LME and dry yeast. The instructions were pretty basic, just boil it, then sprinkle on the yeast. Temp in my little closet stays pretty stable around 75.

The first batch turned out pretty terrible, but we'll see how it tastes after a few months in the bottles.

I think the second batch is going to be better, but still not great, based on the sample I tasted after taking a hydrometer reading.

Neither of these batches have gotten the FG down as low as the directions said it should go.



My question is what should I do to step it up a little bit and try to make some better beer?

I was thinking about ordering a kit from an online retailer and perhaps getting some liquid yeast and some DME to create a starter.

Or should I stick with the dry yeast and maybe just re-hydrate it?

Any thoughts?

 

[boydster]

Temperature control! Make a swamp cooler (place carboy in a big rubbermade tub full of water and ice) to keep the beer temperature in the mid-to-low 60's. Fermentation generates heat, and most ale yeasts start to throw off-flavors when they get into the 70's and higher. If you are fermenting with ambient temps at 75 and no temperature control, the beer may be fermenting at 80 or even higher, resulting in lots of potential unwanted flavors.

Definitely rehydrate the dry yeast. Aerate well when pitching. Those are good practices regardless, and if you incorporate those simple changes along with controlling your temps, your beer will improve exponentially.

Edit: Here is some info on swamp coolers, and if you search around the forums you'll find a lot more...
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/entries/swamp-coolers-and-temperature-control.html

 

[Odin_Brews]

what he said.

 

[BlackGoat]

Definitely agree that you should start with temp control and then work from there. 75 degrees is far to warm for most styles, make a swamp cooler and try to get your temps closer to the 62-65 range. This factor alone could make a huge difference in your final product.

 

[flars]

So far I have brewed two batches of extract beer. They were both "kits" I got from the local home brew shop with LME and dry yeast. The instructions were pretty basic, just boil it, then sprinkle on the yeast. Temp in my little closet stays pretty stable around 75.

1. Did you cool the wort?

The first batch turned out pretty terrible, but we'll see how it tastes after a few months in the bottles.

2. Probably didn't taste good because 75° is way to high to ferment, unless it is one of the saisons. Fermentation temperature was probably at 80° during peak activity.

I think the second batch is going to be better, but still not great, based on the sample I tasted after taking a hydrometer reading.

Neither of these batches have gotten the FG down as low as the directions said it should go.



My question is what should I do to step it up a little bit and try to make some better beer?

A. Control you fermentation temperature.

I was thinking about ordering a kit from an online retailer and perhaps getting some liquid yeast and some DME to create a starter.

B. Try a kit from an on-line source. Start out with a beer about 1.042 to 1.047 OG. Won't need to worry about a yeast starter.

Or should I stick with the dry yeast and maybe just re-hydrate it?

C. Dry yeasts are fine. Stay with them for awhile. Get comfortable with the other brewing techniques first.

Any thoughts?

Look through the forums for awhile. Google 'beer forum'. Look at forum and brew sites for handy calculators. Look at the yeast manufacturers sites for more information.

 

[FuzzeWuzze]

As stated until you get your temperature under control your always going to have beer that tastes off.

Fermenting hot is a good way to get a ton of unwanted nasty off flavors which you are experiencing now.

Use a swamp cooler to keep it in the low to mid 60's so that when it ferments it will get up into the mid 60's.

Fermenting @ 75 room temperature means your probably over 80F in the bucket itself due to the heat the yeast put off while doing their thing.

I would buy another kit and try again with proper temperature control, it is one of, if not the most important things in making good beer.

 

[mattscott]

Your comment about your FG not getting as low as you'd expect makes me wonder about your yeast. Fermenting at 75 could lead to undesired flavors but shouldn't really affect your attenuation.

Any chance that the yeast in the kit is old? Depending on the shop those kits can sit on the shelf for a while sometimes. You might be better off purchasing it separately next time.

Boydsbitchinbrews' comment about aeration is a great point too and will make a difference if your yeast is getting stuck.

 

[Hopper5000]

Temp control and making starters of proper pitching rates are super important in making good quality beer.

 

[wikki]

Thanks for the tips. After the first batch I checked the date on the second yeast pack and it seemed fine. I can't remember exactly but I think it had an expiration date of sometime next year. Muntons Premium Gold, it says premium and gold so it must be the best.

I also shook up the wort pretty well before pitching, so hopefully it was aerated enough.

I'll give the swamp cooler a try and try to shoot for 60 - 65.

Thanks again!

 

[KepowOb]

When you say your FG is off, how far off is it? A lot of people report having issues getting lower than 1.020 when using extract (I haven't run into a problem yet, but it's widespread enough).

If your off by a point or two (say 1.014 vs 1.012) I wouldn't sweat it. If you're off really missing your FG, it could be your yeast (re-hydrate next time, it's very easy and you'll be able to see what type of difference you get). Depending on how fresh your LME is, I'm wondering if it could have something to do with that? I know the freshness of LME has an effect on the final product, but I don't know if it effects fermentability or not.

 

[bbohanon]

100% agree with all the advice here. When I started, I was wanting to try all kinds of new things. I actually backed up and found a commercial beer clone I liked and brewed it 3 times straight to see if I could get as close or better to reproducing the commercial brew. I ended up getting a swamp cooler for my 2nd 3rd batches to start monitoring temp better.
On the 3rd batch, I was better about switching out my frozen water bottles in the morning and afternoon keeping the fermenting temps around 62-65 deg.
By the time I got done with the 3rd batch, it was amazing how much I had learned and how much better the beer was on the last go around.
I found that doing this let me baseline and define what worked and did not work as brewing all kinds of different kits did not help me to determine if I was actually getting "better beer" from my process as the beers were all different.

I now use that 3rd batch process for ALL my batches and have world class beer.

Good beer is basically the following:
-Paying attention while brewing(no drinking and brewing)
-Fresh ingredients(grains/yeast/hops)
-Pitching at the right temp and monitoring fermenting temp
-Proper sanitizing process
-Knowing your equipment and what it can and cannot do.

Again, I know the allure of doing that hot new saison or double IPA is there, but sometimes backing up and running 2-3 batches of a single brew(that you really like) and making some process changes around fermentation temp, fermentation time, etc. makes a world of difference in getting a solid brewing process dialed in for your equipment, etc. which ultimately leads to a much better quality beer.

 

[wikki]

100% agree with all the advice here. When I started, I was wanting to try all kinds of new things. I actually backed up and found a commercial beer clone I liked and brewed it 3 times straight to see if I could get as close or better to reproducing the commercial brew. I ended up getting a swamp cooler for my 2nd 3rd batches to start monitoring temp better.

That sounds like a good plan. What beer did you brew?

 

[bbohanon]

I used a Fat Tire Clone for my base lining process. I love it, my brother-in law loves it and my father-in-law loves it so I was able to get more than just my opinion on the side-by-side taste tests as I blind tested with them on the different batches.
Believe it or not, they told me my first batch(non temp controlled) tasted like a whole different beer than Fat Tire. They liked it ok, but they said it tasted nothing like it.
The 2nd batch they said tasted more like the real deal.
The 3rd batch they told me was better than the real McCoy and they took home most of it when they left my house.


Bill

 

[BigFloyd]

Your #1 priority way above everything else ought to be solid, consistent pitch/ferment temp control.

As long as you try to ferment at 75*F ambient, your beer isn't going to taste very good. Saisons aside, I'd much rather drink an extract batch fermented with dry ale yeast at 64*F (beer temp) than a well-mashed, all-grain, award-winning recipe pitched with a liquid yeast (w/ starter) but fermented at the kind of temp you're using.

Everything else at this point, while interesting and exciting (like recipes and liquid yeast) is window dressing, kind of like putting a set of really nice and expensive wheels on a rusted-out, barely-running 1976 AMC Pacer.

 

[wikki]

Hopefully the little lady will tolerate the swamp cooler. Maybe if I give it a better name she will like it more! Or I could just buy her some jewelry.

 

[traviswalken]

I recently built an eBay temp controller (st-1000 or something). Do a search here and you will find a nice tutorial. Super easy and costs about $25. Combine that with a used chest freezer and you are in business for about $75. My 2 cents.

 

[wikki]

So I've found a friend with an old fridge and temp controller that he isn't using any more so i'm going to go pick it up tonight.

So I guess i'm just going to set this thing at 63 degrees and let it ride?

 

[BigFloyd]

So I've found a friend with an old fridge and temp controller that he isn't using any more so i'm going to go pick it up tonight.

So I guess i'm just going to set this thing at 63 degrees and let it ride?

Congrats on getting your fermenter chamber set up on the cheap.

What yeast are you going to be using? If it's something that ferments nicely at 63*F, pitch it around 60-61*F, let it come up to 63 as it begins and run it there 3-5 days. When the krausen starts to fall and the ferment slows down, slowly edge it up into the 68-69*F range to finish. (all temps are beer temp, not air)

That kind of precise "step-up" fermentation is one of the nice advantages of having a fridge and digital controller.

 

[Kealia]

-Paying attention while brewing(no drinking and brewing)

I agree with everything in thread except this part. Drinking a homebrew while brewing is practically law.

 

[wikki]

At this point I don't really have a good way to measure the temp in the beer. (well I do have a hand held thermometer I use for taking the temp when i'm cooling it down, but nothing long term)

Munton's Premium Gold Yeast is what they gave me a the LHBS.

The guy there swears that he just sits his fermenter out in the shop.

 

[fartinmartin]

Yup, its a bit warm.

 

[helibrewer]

At this point I don't really have a good way to measure the temp in the beer. (well I do have a hand held thermometer I use for taking the temp when i'm cooling it down, but nothing long term)

Munton's Premium Gold Yeast is what they gave me a the LHBS.

The guy there swears that he just sits his fermenter out in the shop.

Get a SS thermowell and either drill a second hole in your lid (if you bucket ferment) or get an orange hood for your carboy. Now you can monitor beer temp and use an airlock.

If you are only using the fridge to ferment one batch at a time, place the controller's sensor in your thermowell and have the fridge cycle based on beer temp instead of fridge temp.

 

[CKing]

Steep some specialty grains to go along with your malt extracts.
Use dry malt extracts instead of liquid.
Dry yeast is very good to use, hydrating the yeast prior to pitching is worthwhile.

And yes try to pitch your wort at 60-65 degrees F to avoid high fermentation temps.

 

[BigFloyd]

Munton's Premium Gold Yeast is what they gave me a the LHBS.

The guy there swears that he just sits his fermenter out in the shop.

Both of which are valid reasons to take any advice you may get there with a large grain of salt.

 

[BlackGoat]

Both of which are valid reasons to take any advice you may get there with a large grain of salt.

I'm learning more and more that LHBS owners shouldn't really be trusted for advice until proven otherwise. I'm sure there are some extremely knowledgeable guys out there running shops, but there seems to be plenty of guys who seem like they only read the instructions from a 1990s-era extract kit and stopped there with learning their craft.

 

[BigFloyd]

I'm learning more and more that LHBS owners shouldn't really be trusted for advice until proven otherwise. I'm sure there are some extremely knowledgeable guys out there running shops, but there seems to be plenty of guys who seem like they only read the instructions from a 1990s-era extract kit and stopped there with learning their craft.

I've been in both sorts of shops and have overheard some pretty bad (as well some quite good) advice being handed out.

Fortunately, the guy who owns/runs our LHBS, https://www.tylersbrewing.com/, is the sort who takes pride in his craft and shows it in the beers he brews.

 

[wikki]

Actually this batch has Safale S-04, says on the package to ferment between 59 and 68F. They have a lot better instructions on their website.

For now if I just keep the fridge temp at 63 or so and keep the probe taped to the side of the bucket that would probably be OK wouldn't it?

 

[boydster]

Insulate it with some bubble wrap or styrofoam if you can for better accuracy.

 

[BigFloyd]

Actually this batch has Safale S-04, says on the package to ferment between 59 and 68F. They have a lot better instructions on their website.

For now if I just keep the fridge temp at 63 or so and keep the probe taped to the side of the bucket that would probably be OK wouldn't it?

That will work great if you insulate it from the air. The folks around here who have checked that method vs. using a thermowell into the middle of the fermenter found a negligible difference between the two.

After a 3-5 days at 63, start to slowly allow it to come up a degree or so each day until it hits 68-69.

 

[wikki]

That will work great if you insulate it from the air. The folks around here who have checked that method vs. using a thermowell into the middle of the fermenter found a negligible difference between the two.

After a 3-5 days at 63, start to slowly allow it to come up a degree or so each day until it hits 68-69.

Thanks for the great advice BigFloyd and others! I can't wait to get going tomorrow.

I"ll have to post a picture of this fridge. They took a college dorm fridge and added a wood box onto the front of it so you can run two at a time.

 

[BrewinBromanite]

I just used my new fermentation cooler for the first time last batch, along with a Johnson Controls digital controller. Taped the temp-probe to the wall of the carboy, and then insulated with some foam sheets (the kind that new electronics are wrapped in), and some bubble wrap on top of that. Then sealed all the edges with duct tape.

Worked like a charm! The temp reading was consistently 1 deg cooler than my set point throughout the fermentation.

Also had 2 old thermometer/aquarium strips that were still on the carboy that were both reading spot on with the digital controller reading.

 

[wikki]

So It's been a little over a month now and my first batch of bear using the new method is all bottle conditioned and ready to go.

I brewed what is basically a pumpkin pie ale, with some hints of cinnamon and cloves.

I just brought up 6 bottles to the office and passed them around and they are a big hit. By far this is the best beer I've brewed.

Thanks for all of the great advice!

If you are reading this and have not gotten proper temperature control for your fermentation process I urge you to do so at once. I got an old freezer for $40 and built an STC-1000 temp controller for $40.

 

[wikki]

 

[BigFloyd]

I just brought up 6 bottles to the office and passed them around and they are a big hit. By far this is the best beer I've brewed.

Thanks for all of the great advice!

If you are reading this and have not gotten proper temperature control for your fermentation process I urge you to do so at once. I got an old freezer for $40 and built an STC-1000 temp controller for $40.

Outstanding.

You didn't just step it up a little. You stepped it up a bunch.

 

[IL1kebeer]

I got an old freezer for $40 and built an STC-1000 temp controller for $40.

Good choice. Swamp coolers are neat, but for consistently good beer you need the precision of a freezer/fridge and an external controller.