Time for a Second Go. ~ Orange Slice vs. Orange Zest

[nate85]

Recently racked my first Mead (w/ wildflower honey) a week ago and its has been mesmerizing to watch the CO2 bubbles rise to the top. Of course i had so sample a little at the time and it was absolutely delicious!! I cant wait till i have to re-rack it

So now I am gearing up to start a few more small batches (~2 gallon).

Both batches will be the same base Mead:
3-4 lbs Clover Honey per Gallon
Purified Water (not distilled)
5g Lalvin EC-1118
Go-Ferm
Staggered Nutrient with Fermaid K and DAP

So my question is when is the best time to add the Orange component, and what is best (Orange Slice or Orange Zest) for a middle of the road orange taste?

I would like to make these 2 batches slightly different with the addition of Vanilla (whole bean) and Cinnamon. Your suggestions welcome.

Thank you in advance!!

 

[fossilcat]

There's more space requirements when you use slices. But you can leave them in forever without worry, strength of flavor is determined by how much is in there. Significant amounts might effect your acid level too. If you use slices with peal with pith, then you'll be pulling them out sooner. The pith lends a tart/sour taste that's unpleasent when there's too much. It's welcome in some instances, like JAOM, when balanced with something else like sweetness.

Zest gives flavor FAST. More exposed surface area to extract from. And the flavor is different - eat the orange and eat the zest and you'll see what I mean. You have to be attentive when using zest, taste often. I'd only suggest using it in secondary for this reason.

I've had good results with a channel knife. You don't get the wet paste from the zest and you don't get all of the pith. Doesn't take up a whole lot of room in the carboy and it's easy to remove. I don't even rack off of it, I just use tongs to lift it out when I'm happy with the taste.

 

[nate85]

I've had good results with a channel knife. You don't get the wet paste from the zest and you don't get all of the pith. Doesn't take up a whole lot of room in the carboy and it's easy to remove.

A channel Knife is a great idea! (I had to look it up just to be sure lol)

I don't even rack off of it, I just use tongs to lift it out when I'm happy with the taste.

That makes things way easier.

And the flavor is different - eat the orange and eat the zest and you'll see what I mean.

Ill have to try that..

I see a lot of people posting about "Orange Creamsicle" mead.. which sounds good but not really what i am looking for. Mainly just want a hint of orange flavor.

 

[fossilcat]

Mainly just want a hint of orange flavor.

I know exactly what you mean. I just posted a recipe https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=623802 where I was going for exactly that. It might be a bit more involved for your second or third mead but it might be something you may want to consider later on. It's a kickass brew.

 

[nate85]

So I have started 2 new batches. At this point both are identical at primary fermentation (started 4/16/17). But i am looking to put vanilla bean and orange peel in one and Vanilla bean and Spices (Cinnamon, nutmeg.. ect) in the other. I have read a few different ways to sanitize these but was wondering what people's experiences here are. The direction I am thinking is to cut open and place the vanilla beans into a small amount of cheap vodka and let it sit for and hour or so before pitching it in the fermentation.

This i guess also bring up how to do this with the spices that are ground up?

Also is it better to use a bag of some sort or just toss it in and filter later?

 

[bernardsmith]

Hi nate85. I guess I'd be wary about adding ground up spices. They are unlikely to clear as quickly as you would like and so your mead will tend to be more cloudy and hazy than most people prefer. Certainly when you grind spices there is more surface area for the alcohol to extract the flavor but a 2 inch piece of cinnamon will result in quite a lot of flavor.
Also, since you have already started these meads you need to be a little cautious: unless you have been degassing religiously, there will be a great deal of CO2 absorbed in solution. When you add powder of any kind the powder creates countless points of nucleation around which the CO2 gathers and in gathering the amount of energy the gas molecules need to drop out of solution is greatly reduced. What happens then is that the gas rockets towards the top of your fermenter pushing ahead of it a column of liquid. If you are fermenting in a carboy, the neck will act to rifle this liquid and it will shoot out of your fermenter - painting the walls, floor and even the ceiling with your precious mead. I would put any powder in a second carboy and rack the mead onto the powder - Just sayin'...

 

[nate85]

Hey Bernardsmith,

As always thanks for responding! I guess that brings up a quick question.. I understand the importance of degassing during SNA (as we discussed in an earlier post), but is it still necessary to degas regularly even after you have finished SNA?

Back to the original discussion. I guess i could get some of the spices in crushed form or buy whole and crush myself.. Both batches are in food grade buckets until they are ready to rack so there is a bit more head space for now. Once i rack then they will go into Carboys.

I dont plan on painting.. or repainting any walls

 

[nate85]

Right, wrong or indifferent. I went ahead and degassed both batches before taking a SG.. I was delightfully surprised at the progress. Both of these seem to be trucking right along.
The one intended to be Vanilla Bean and Orange peel is currently at 1.030 (started at 1.112). I am thinking I will add the Vanilla bean and peel this weekend.
Also the one intended to be Vanilla Bean and Spice is currently at 1.038 (started at 1.115). I am also thinking I will add the Vanilla and spices this weekend.

Thoughts? Just thought i would share the progress.

 

[Kody_Wulfe]

Bernard,

If you wanted to add ground spice to a mead.. would you use a muslin bag??

Kody

 

[nate85]

Little Update:
Vanilla and Orange Metheglin - SG at 1.018 5/11/17 (started at 1.112)
Vanilla Spice Metheglin - SG at 1.022 5/11/17 (started at 1.115)
Looks like they still have a little bit more to go before racking to secondary assuming 1.010 is the target.

So now I have obtained my spices via Spicehouse (Whole Mexican Bean Vanilla, Whole Clove, Whole Nutmeg and Whole Cinnamon Sticks) but need a way to sanitize them.... I have read a few options of either boiling in water or letting sit for a while in a cheap (no flavor) vodka.

I'm leaning toward vodka and letting the spices sit together and then pitch the spices with the vodka. I'm having a hard time coming up with how much vodka to use with out distorting the flavor of the mead while also making sure to get the spices sanitized.. Thoughts?

Also a little issue is because i have only 2 gallons of mead for each batch the container they are in is too shallow to take any SG readings past 1.015.. I have a thief but was hoping i wouldn't have to use it.. o well

I will post pictures as soon as i have racked to secondary.

 

[Drewed]

Honestly, at this point I'd just split the bean and toss it in.
You have a good amount of alcohol in the brew already, and the yeast are so established that very little could possible knock them out. Now I'm not saying to leave a raw chicken in the sun uncovered for a few hours then rub the vanilla bean on it, but I don't see the reason to leach some/ most of the flavor out in to vodka. Even more so with the spices as they are dried.

 

[nate85]

Thanks Drewed,
I wondered about that with it being around 14% already.. in my searching last night I recalled someone suggesting putting the vodka in a spray bottle. I may do that just for good measure and then pitch it all together.

What about amounts of spices.. its only 2 gallon batches so here is what i was thinking. Let me know if you would change anything or if its too much..
Vanilla-Orange Peel:
1x Vanilla Bean (split)
1/2x Orange Peeled (no pith)

Vanilla-Spice:
1x Vanilla Bean (split)
1x Cinnamon Stick (crushed)
1/2x Nutmeg (crushed)
2-3x Whole Cloves

 

[fossilcat]

Check out Bray's site, specifically https://denardbrewing.com/blog/post/Spices/ for a spice use reference. Of course, as you gain more experience you can adapt the amounts to your own taste preferences. I start with Dennard Brewing whenever I have a question - he's already answered a lot of newbie questions and then some. His stuff is researched and personally tested and usually right in line with my preferences (taste-wise) with mine.

 

[nate85]

fossilcat

Excellent source/find!! Thank you!!

 

[Drewed]

Check with Bray, but I find clove to be very strong. 1 or 2 per gallon is more than enough. In fact, I'd split your spices in half, except the vanilla. You can always add more, but you can't take them out. Use 1 bean, 1/2 a stack of cinnamon, 1/4 nutmeg, and one or two cloves. Don't crush them, it will just make a mess. Toss them in and taste in a week or two. Add more at that time if you feel it needs it.

 

[nate85]

Okay.. fun night last night as i got to rack the 2 batches i have been talking about. Ill give more info and pictures later as my phone is about to die..

But i had a quick question about my previous batch i have already had in secondary. On 4/30/17 it was at SG 1.040 as of today (5/20/17) SG 1.038. It is looking great and clearing up nicely. Would it be safe to assume i can start bottling?

 

[Drewed]

1.038 is pretty high for using 1118. That almost sounds stuck to me. What was your recipe for that batch? Are you brewing someplace that is colder, like a basement?

 

[nate85]

Since racking it has been on a shelf on a walkin closet.. temperature tape on the carboy shows about 68 which has been fairly consistent..

 

[nate85]

Hey all thought i would give you all some updates.. i am about ready to bottle both batches as the my gravity has not gone up but a few points since a month ago. I have just been waiting for the meads to clear up a bit. Both taste like rocket fuel at the moment. Im hoping that after letting them bottle age for a year they will mellow out. Im not tasting much vanilla in either of the batches but the spices deffinatly came through with almost a bit of heat. The orange also came through pretty well.

I am half tempted to put another whole bean in each and see.. too late??

Anyway here are some pictures. Hope you enjoy!

 

[nate85]

Those were taken at the time of racking.

Here ther are as of today:

 

[Drewed]

You can add flavorings up to the point of bottling, including in (sometimes) the bottle.

 

[nate85]

So I was reading another thread about back sweetening and some one mentioned that blending with a really sweet already fermented mead is better.

I was wondering if anyone here has done this, and if so is it better and more successful then back sweetening with a mix of water and honey?

 

[nate85]

You can add flavorings up to the point of bottling, including in (sometimes) the bottle.

Thank you! This led me to find the process of making Vanilla Extract. So i think i may continue to age a bit longer while i wait for my vanilla extract to finish (~8weeks). In the mean time i may rerack to fresh carboys and then fill the additional head space with a previously brewed sweet mead.

Thoughts?

 

[MeadMiser17]

I have never added Orange flavor to any of my meads, but I'm getting ready to try a small 1 gallon methaglin with orange and fresh rosemary, because brewing with orange seems to be widely popular. It seems like a whole orange per gallon sliced up and added to secondary is the way to go based on many other recipes I've read on the internet.

As a side note, I do have experience making vanilla hazelnut extract with vodka, Madagascar vanilla beans and fresh hazelnuts. I sliced two vanilla beans lengthwise with hazelnuts that I toasted in the oven on 350 for about 8 minutes. Added that to a cup of vodka (80 proof) put a lid on it and let it steep for 3 weeks. It was a magnificent addition to an oak apple cyser I made last year.

 

[Drewed]

I.... It seems like a whole orange per gallon sliced up and added to secondary is the way to go based on many other recipes I've read on the internet. ....

Be careful of that. There are a lot of bad recipes out there. The amount seems about right, but just slicing it up and jamin' it in is not the best practice, unless you are making a JAOM. The bitter form the pith will over take a normal mead.

 

[nate85]

I have never added Orange flavor to any of my meads, but I'm getting ready to try a small 1 gallon methaglin with orange and fresh rosemary, because brewing with orange seems to be widely popular.

I cant speak to whole oranges or juice, but the fresh orange peel i added is very apparent. Its more of a note then a flavor (if that makes any sence)

 

[MeadMiser17]

Be careful of that. There are a lot of bad recipes out there. The amount seems about right, but just slicing it up and jamin' it in is not the best practice, unless you are making a JAOM. The bitter form the pith will over take a normal mead.

Thanks for the advice. I'm sure you are right about the bitterness of the orange peel. I bet a pure orange extract would work well? A friend of mine made elderberry mead and he put the whole stems and berries in primary and the resulting bitterness was not pleasant.

 

[nate85]

Well i started my Vanilla Extract last night.. we will see in ~8 weeks how it is..

Any one have any experience in blending with a sweet mead instead of back sweetening?

 

[paulmichele1210]

I've just made my first mead and it's bubbling away nicely. I didn't take a reading for abv I forgot, is it still going to be possible though to tell how strong it is once it's ready.

 

[growlrr]

If you know your starting ingredients, you can make a pretty good educated guess as to your SG and from there figure out your ABV when you reach your FG. It may not be perfect, but it'll be close

 

[ike8228]

Well i started my Vanilla Extract last night.. we will see in ~8 weeks how it is..

Any one have any experience in blending with a sweet mead instead of back sweetening?

If you are completely done fermenting then you can add sweeter Mead or sugar. It works. However if you have live yeast in your drier mead you are hoping to sweeten, then it could start up fermentation again and dry back out over time. The sweeter Mead is sweet for a reason, excess of sugars not consumed by the previous host. Another yeasts trash is another yeasts dinner. You could prevent this by adding potassium sorbate to the Dry to ensure the yeast is gone.