Thoughts on my first attempt at creating a recipe from scratch

[JaviBrewski]

So I decided to try and make a Pale Ale from scratch as its pretty forgiving brew and its roughly on the "easier" side when it comes to ingredients. I tried to follow the guidleines from BJCP but at the same time im not too focused on it. I mainly tried to keep it within the IBU guidelines in Brewfather. I'm open to any ideas or criticisms or suggestions you might throw my way.

Pale Ale 30 Min Boil BIAB
Estimated OG: 1.058
Estimated FG: 1.012
Estimated ABV: 5.9%

Grains
6.5lbs 2-Row Pale Malt
.5lbs Carapils
.5lbs Caramunich

Hops
.25oz Warrior at 30
.5oz HBC-256 at 5
.5oz Citra at 5
.5oz Mosaic at 5
.5oz HBC-256 Flameout/Whirlpool 20mins
.5oz Citra Flameout/Whirlpool 20mins
.5oz Mosaic Flameout/Whirlpool 20mins

Yeast
Lutra Kveik or Voss Kveik

Thanks for any help in advance. Cheers

 

[Deadalus]

I'd suggest 1/2 that amount of carapils. I've only used caramunich in my lager recipes, Octoberfest comes to mind, but it could be an interesting addition if you are looking for a maltier pale ale. I would think it would lean towards a more coppery hue.

What temp are you planning to mash at?

What temp are you planning to whirlpool at? Will you be removing the Warrior hops prior to whirlpooling? Even though a small amount, if left in while whirlpooling, it has high alpha acids and will continue to bitter if left in, particularly for the higher whirlpool temperature ranges. I'm not sure offhand about the alpha acid content of your 5 minute additions. If left in, they too can add bitterness.

What are the estimated IBUs?

I've only used the Voss Kveik but it does work well with pale ales. A brewing friend uses it more frequently than I with good results for that style.

 

[hotbeer]

Your OG seems high. Are you figuring 100% efficiency or is this a smaller than 5 gallon batch.

Generally with Breiss Carapils the recommendation is 5% or less of the fermentables.

 

[JaviBrewski]

I'd suggest 1/2 that amount of carapils. I've only used caramunich in my lager recipes, Octoberfest comes to mind, but it could be an interesting addition if you are looking for a maltier pale ale. I would think it would lean towards a more coppery hue.

What temp are you planning to mash at?

What temp are you planning to whirlpool at? Will you be removing the Warrior hops prior to whirlpooling? Even though a small amount, if left in while whirlpooling, it has high alpha acids and will continue to bitter if left in, particularly for the higher whirlpool temperature ranges. I'm not sure offhand about the alpha acid content of your 5 minute additions. If left in, they too can add bitterness.

What are the estimated IBUs?

I've only used the Voss Kveik but it does work well with pale ales. A brewing friend uses it more frequently than I with good results for that style.

Mash would be at 155. Whirlpool at 175 for 15-20mins. And yes the warrior and hops at 5 mins would be removed as i have a hopstand and then id add the whirlpool hops Estimated IBUs is at 48.

 

[JaviBrewski]

Your OG seems high. Are you figuring 100% efficiency or is this a smaller than 5 gallon batch.

Generally with Breiss Carapils the recommendation is 5% or less of the fermentables.

Updated grains and ive OG at 1.055

 

[hotbeer]

Updated grains and ive OG at 1.055

Still, if this is a 5 gallon batch, I'm not certain you'll get that high an OG. Maybe for a 3 gallon batch if your efficiency is about 80%.

 

[JaviBrewski]

Still, if this is a 5 gallon batch, I'm not certain you'll get that high an OG. Maybe for a 3 gallon batch if your efficiency is about 80%.

3.5 gal batch

 

[Deadalus]

You mention loosely to style, American Pale Ale correct? Medium light to medium body and medium to dry finish. I would suggest mashing at a lower temperature. I prefer to use a lower temperature than that for the whirlpool (165F), you might not get as much aroma as you might want.

 

[JaviBrewski]

You mention loosely to style, American Pale Ale correct? Medium light to medium body and medium to dry finish. I would suggest mashing at a lower temperature. I prefer to use a lower temperature than that for the whirlpool (165F), you might not get as much aroma as you might want.

Thats my main concern and the part thats been beating me up. Most time i just follow a recipe and it tells me when to do everything. My grain bill isnt whats bothering me (thats easily fixable). Its the hop selection and hop schedule to get the most out of the selected hops thats driving me nuts and i cant figure out

 

[Deadalus]

Thats my main concern and the part thats been beating me up. Most time i just follow a recipe and it tells me when to do everything. My grain bill isnt whats bothering me (thats easily fixable). Its the hop selection and hop schedule to get the most out of the selected hops thats driving me nuts and i cant figure out

Same here really. I can dial in a grain bill pretty well by the second version. Hops can be a lot harder. I was just in a discussion about hops in another thread, hops have more complexity than just aroma/bittering due to the various hop components. Descriptions when buying aren't very detailed and even in some databases the information can be sparse. When I create a recipe for a style, I like to read a couple of different sources about that style. I do start out like you did a read the BJCP as it has several sections describing each style. Sometimes the types of hops that might work are suggested or the particular aroma or bittering profiles. Then still though there are various methods for bittering and aroma hops plus the quite diverse population of hops to work with. It can be hard to fine tune a recipe because the variables are many but the repetition is low. That makes it hard to tease out differences. It helps if you are not repeating recipes to at least have some repetition of ingredients in other styles. For instance, try that HBC-256 in another recipe as well. You'll probably use either of those yeasts again too. You give it a go and then think about correction after the first trial. Once you have it in the glass, you may be able to detect some of the finer details that you find when researching that just didn't click when generating the recipe.

As far as the hops, I'd mention one more thing and that you are pushing the upper limit on the BJCP style guidelines. Without the full detailed ingredients, I'd think the majority of the IBUs are coming from the Warrior hops but maybe only the plurality. Then a middle sum of IBUs from the 5 minutes, and some from the whirlpool. Whirlpool hop IBUs I think are still somewhat imprecisely calculated. I'd look at those three sets of IBU additions and potentially drop the IBUs a little if most (very high percentage) of the IBUs are coming from the 30 and 5 minute additions. Those are solid IBU additions usually. In my experience, 175 whirlpool additions also add detectable bittering. I like to start out in the middle and even more towards the lower end of the style IBU range. That way the beer isn't too bitter on the first go. A too bitter beer can fade over time and can be fine to drink on the second or third pour but it makes for a slower keg drawdown and getting to fixing the recipe. Plus it's harder to get your buddies to drink it to help you polish it off!

 

[JaviBrewski]

Same here really. I can dial in a grain bill pretty well by the second version. Hops can be a lot harder. I was just in a discussion about hops in another thread, hops have more complexity than just aroma/bittering due to the various hop components. Descriptions when buying aren't very detailed and even in some databases the information can be sparse. When I create a recipe for a style, I like to read a couple of different sources about that style. I do start out like you did a read the BJCP as it has several sections describing each style. Sometimes the types of hops that might work are suggested or the particular aroma or bittering profiles. Then still though there are various methods for bittering and aroma hops plus the quite diverse population of hops to work with. It can be hard to fine tune a recipe because the variables are many but the repetition is low. That makes it hard to tease out differences. It helps if you are not repeating recipes to at least have some repetition of ingredients in other styles. For instance, try that HBC-256 in another recipe as well. You'll probably use either of those yeasts again too. You give it a go and then think about correction after the first trial. Once you have it in the glass, you may be able to detect some of the finer details that you find when researching that just didn't click when generating the recipe.

As far as the hops, I'd mention one more thing and that you are pushing the upper limit on the BJCP style guidelines. Without the full detailed ingredients, I'd think the majority of the IBUs are coming from the Warrior hops but maybe only the plurality. Then a middle sum of IBUs from the 5 minutes, and some from the whirlpool. Whirlpool hop IBUs I think are still somewhat imprecisely calculated. I'd look at those three sets of IBU additions and potentially drop the IBUs a little if most (very high percentage) of the IBUs are coming from the 30 and 5 minute additions. Those are solid IBU additions usually. In my experience, 175 whirlpool additions also add detectable bittering. I like to start out in the middle and even more towards the lower end of the style IBU range. That way the beer isn't too bitter on the first go. A too bitter beer can fade over time and can be fine to drink on the second or third pour but it makes for a slower keg drawdown and getting to fixing the recipe. Plus it's harder to get your buddies to drink it to help you polish it off!

Mist of my IBUs are coming from the bittering addition at the 30mins. Youre correct in that the recipe is definitely in the upper limits of the style guidelines. Ive linked the recipe in brewfather in hopes it may help.

https://share.brewfather.app/Xhkc68AnywxdOx

 

[Deadalus]

Mist of my IBUs are coming from the bittering addition at the 30mins. Youre correct in that the recipe is definitely in the upper limits of the style guidelines. Ive linked the recipe in brewfather in hopes it may help.

https://share.brewfather.app/Xhkc68AnywxdOx

Were you still tweaking it because what shows at the link is not the recipe you had in your initial post? The listed hops add up to 48 IBUs, the recipe itself says 47 so it's probably rounding below in the hops list.

 

[JaviBrewski]

Were you still tweaking it because what shows at the link is not the recipe you had in your initial post? The listed hops add up to 48 IBUs, the recipe itself says 47 so it's probably rounding below in the hops list.
View attachment 809874

Still tweaking and tinkering. The one i posted was what i originally had and isnt even my very first draft. My OP is probably draft #2 and the link is draft #3

 

[Deadalus]

Were you still tweaking it because what shows at the link is not the recipe you had in your initial post? The listed hops add up to 48 IBUs, the recipe itself says 47 so it's probably rounding below in the hops list.
View attachment 809874

You'll end up with almost no aroma with this one, there's no flameout or whirlpool hops. If you switched the five minutes to either choice, you'd have a base of 39 IBUs. Brewfather can calculate whirlpool hops right? Flameout won't add any bittering if you chill right away but the 175 whirlpool will add some particularly since everything is high alpha acids. You could dry hop after the above schedule but it's really close to the upper limit. You are at 5.9% ABV so possibly not an issue being at 48 IBUs.