thought on hop spiders?

[dreaded_rust]

What are people thoughts on hop spiders?
I usually do IPAs that involve quite a bit of hops...about 10 ounces on my last batch. I do 5 gallon all grain batches boiled in a 10 gallon pot. Normally I use 100% pellet hops but on occasion will use whole leaf for part of the hop bill.
I've read a few concerns about hop utilization and what not. has anyone had issues? I'm trying to lessen how much trub I'm getting in my fermenter as well as less trub through my valve on the pot. Just to make clean up easier if nothing else.

 

[TANSTAAFB]

I have a stainless spider that is collecting dust. It did its job well but I tend to use a lot of whirlpool hops these days and can't have my Jaded IC and the spider in the pot at the same time. I've switched to using a hop bag from Wilserbrewer (I also BIAB) and it works great. I don't feel like I lose any hop character as I use a large bag so the hops are pretty loose.

 

[LostHopper]

I have a stainless spider that is collecting dust. It did its job well but I tend to use a lot of whirlpool hops these days and can't have my Jaded IC and the spider in the pot at the same time. I've switched to using a hop bag from Wilserbrewer (I also BIAB) and it works great. I don't feel like I lose any hop character as I use a large bag so the hops are pretty loose.

Do you hang the bag on the side of the kettle or suspend it in the middle during your boil?

 

[TANSTAAFB]

I hang it from the side but it's big and loose so it floats around in the middle with wort flowing through and around.

 

[schematix]

hop spiders are no good, and even more detrimental on the hoppier beers. the reduced utilization is significant.

After chilling let your pot sit for about 30 minutes. If you've done everything right all of the solids will settle and you should be able to rack clear wort, free of break and hops, to the fermenter. Are you draining through a valve with a dip tube? Try turning it 90 degrees.

 

[Queequeg]

I use a hop spider for kettle additions only. So it fine for everything except IPA'S or maybe pales where I will be adding 7oz of hops in the stand. In these instances I use a BIAB bag clipped to the side of the kettle with bulldog clips. I then recirculate thought the pump/CFPC back to the BIAB containing the hop stand addition.

IPA'S really are the exception not the rule.

 

[Morrey]

What are people thoughts on hop spiders?
I usually do IPAs that involve quite a bit of hops...about 10 ounces on my last batch. I do 5 gallon all grain batches boiled in a 10 gallon pot. Normally I use 100% pellet hops but on occasion will use whole leaf for part of the hop bill.
I've read a few concerns about hop utilization and what not. has anyone had issues? I'm trying to lessen how much trub I'm getting in my fermenter as well as less trub through my valve on the pot. Just to make clean up easier if nothing else.

The great debate......contain the hops or free float.

Regardless of your choice, one way to help reduce vegetal hop matter is to use a CO2 based Hop bittering extract. This product is very smooth and gives around 61% AA CTZ bittering. Worth a look at Yakima Valley website.

 

[dreaded_rust]

I use a ball valve in a welded fitting. I could try getting a bent tip tube in there. Not sure how much that would help though. Most of my trub does settle well to the bottom but it often times is enough to still wanna poor some through he valve.

... use a CO2 based Hop bittering extract. This product is very smooth and gives around 61% AA CTZ bittering. ....

I usually dont use more than half an ounce for my bittering hops anyway. I suppose with the super hoppy IPAs any little bit helps though.

 

[Morrey]

I use a ball valve in a welded fitting. I could try getting a bent tip tube in there. Not sure how much that would help though. Most of my trub does settle well to the bottom but it often times is enough to still wanna poor some through he valve.



I usually dont use more than half an ounce for my bittering hops anyway. I suppose with the super hoppy IPAs any little bit helps though.

True...any bit helps for sure. I use an Arbor Fab 300 uM mesh hop basket during the whirlpool phase to contain hops. I position the basket so the WP jet shoots into the side as it hangs on the kettle. You can see the vortex spinning inside the basket so I know this is bound to help utilization. While some argue against hop containment, I am all about clean wort (as clean as possible) into fermenter.

 

[kh54s10]

I use a 5 gallon paint strainer bag clipped to the lip of my kettle. Each addition goes in the bag. I have always done this so I don't really know how much hop goodness I lose. But, I have never felt my hoppy beers did not get hoppy enough!

I prefer not to lose all that beer in the hop goo.

 

[Morrey]

I use a 5 gallon paint strainer bag clipped to the lip of my kettle. Each addition goes in the bag. I have always done this so I don't really know how much hop goodness I lose. But, I have never felt my hoppy beers did not get hoppy enough!

I prefer not to lose all that beer in the hop goo.

For sure, and even if containment does limit utilization, I'll gladly buy an extra ounce of hops to keep things clean.

 

[Blazinlow86]

I used one on my first keggle propane setup. When I rebuilt my new indoor set-up I switched to whirlpooling and free floating pellet hops. Never get any into the fermenter

 

[TANSTAAFB]

I thought I posted this a couple of hours ago, not sure what happened! They found a 2 IBU difference between bagged and loose measured in a lab. That's not enough of a difference to get me to stop bagging (or using I spider, I don't think there's much difference between the two as long as a pound of hops aren't crammed into a 1 gallon paint strainer!) my hops and I don't believe my bitterness or hop character from whirlpooling or dry hopping suffers from using the bag.

https://www.experimentalbrew.com/podcast/brew-files-episode-13-saisons-city-cousin-dave-janssen

 

[Morrey]

I thought I posted this a couple of hours ago, not sure what happened! They found a 2 IBU difference between bagged and loose measured in a lab. That's not enough of a difference to get me to stop bagging (or using I spider, I don't think there's much difference between the two as long as a pound of hops aren't crammed into a 1 gallon paint strainer!) my hops and I don't believe my bitterness or hop character from whirlpooling or dry hopping suffers from using the bag.

https://www.experimentalbrew.com/podcast/brew-files-episode-13-saisons-city-cousin-dave-janssen

Great information and thanks for sharing!

I had read a couple of years ago that someone had experimented and felt a 4.5 - 5% overage on hop usage would make up for any utilization loss by containment. The truth be known, I doubt that "my" taste buds can detect that small of a difference, but for sure lab equipment can. So to be on the safe side and for accuracy sakes, I add a small overage since I use a containment system.

I also run hop aging numbers into BeerSmith so I can target as accurately as possible the IBU numbers. Your 2 IBU adjustment factor aligns nicely with my 5% overage in most beers I make.

 

[TANSTAAFB]

I don't have them at my fingertips but I've also read/ heard in podcasts or interviews several times that calculated IBUs are wildly inaccurate when checked with lab measurements. My taste buds definitely can't taste the difference 5% makes (maybe that's why I make IPAs, sours, and funky beers [emoji12]) but to me it's about dialing your system and doing what works. I started using a spider and bags because I used a pump and a plate chiller and it was necessary. Now that I don't usually use a pump and I switched to a Jaded chiller I'm not going to stop using a bag because I find it convenient and I don't mind putting the little bit of kettle trub that's left into my fermenter (free yeast nutrient!). Obviously everyone will do what works for them.

 

[Morrey]

For sure equipment can drive our process such as clogged lines, chiller plates, dip tubes and impellers making hop containment important. I also add in to the IBU equation how Chloride and Sulfate ratios impact hop perception. We can make a fairly significant perception shift with brewing salts which makes differences, so if I am actually losing utilization by containment, I can play with the SO4 and never know (taste) the loss.

 

[dreaded_rust]

Thanks for the input guys. With most my beers being between 70 and 100+ IBUs I really dont think a few will be missed. I think I'll take a swing on this for my next big IPA and we'll see how it goes.

 

[Morrey]

Good plan^^. Please share your thoughts afterwards!

 

[TANSTAAFB]

I will say there is a HUGE difference between a paint strainer and a hop bag made from voile such as those made by @wilserbrewer (shameless plug, you rock Wilser [emoji41]). In my experience the fine mesh bags do a better job of containing hop and grain particles without getting clogged and while allowing flow of wort than the stainless mesh. My mesh hop spider would clog with hops and break material.

 

[Iceman6409]

Paint strainer bag clamped on kettle. Nothing easier. Super easy to clean and re-use

 

[Queequeg]

I thought I posted this a couple of hours ago, not sure what happened! They found a 2 IBU difference between bagged and loose measured in a lab. That's not enough of a difference to get me to stop bagging (or using I spider, I don't think there's much difference between the two as long as a pound of hops aren't crammed into a 1 gallon paint strainer!) my hops and I don't believe my bitterness or hop character from whirlpooling or dry hopping suffers from using the bag.

https://www.experimentalbrew.com/podcast/brew-files-episode-13-saisons-city-cousin-dave-janssen

What is also worth noting is that in taste tests people could not distinguish beers with equal to or less than 5IBU difference.

 

[pvpeacock]

I stopped using a hop spider because it made using my immersion chiller a pain. However, I did find a better use for it. When I'm draining my mash tun into my brew kettle, I run the wort through the hop spider. It catches all the spent grain that makes it through my false bottom and into the kettle, so I can just pull it out with the hop spider before the boil. That lets me open the mash tun valve all the way without having to vorlauf (or do so as much). I guess I should start calling it a spent grain spider.