This will change the way you think about yeast harvesting - I PROMISE!

[TheZymurgist]

Ok, maybe not. That's probably a bit of an exaggeration. But since there's been a few more conversations about yeast harvesting lately, I thought I'd share my method. I learned this from my home brew club, and to me, it seems more 'novel' than the Novel Approach. I will say, for those doing smaller than 5 gallon batches, this method might pose some issues, but for those doing five or more gallons (which I believe is the majority of us) it's pretty simple.

I'm sure some of you are already doing something similar, and others might think this is the stupidest thing in the entire world. There may even be a thread exactly like this one already, although I haven't seen one. That's fine, I just thought I'd explain what's worked best for me. I've found this to be both easier and cheaper than washing or creating an extra starter and splitting (the Novel Approach). Oh, and don't think that just because I mention the Novel Approach that I'm knocking it. On the contrary, that's the method I used for a long time before I switched to this one.

About six or so months ago, I started increasing my batch size by one gallon. This extra gallon gets run off, after the boil, into a (sanitized) one gallon glass jug and diluted (if necessary) to approximately 1.040 SG. How you do this is up to you, but I simply add water straight from the tap. Many will say your water needs to be boiled or sterilized in some way, but that's a different discussion that's been debated to death already.

I then pitch yeast into this one gallon mini-batch, and allow it to ferment. When it's done, there's roughly an inch of yeast in the bottom of the jug. I throw this in the fridge to cold crash, decant, and split into two or three small jars.

Before my next batch, I make a small starter with one of the jars, just to wake the little buggers up. I then take one of the other jars and throw it into the extra one gallon runoff from the new batch of beer, and the process starts all over. This method is great if you've found a 'house' yeast that you regularly use, or for any strain you use somewhat regularly, although I do this with any strain I purchase, just in case. It's cheaper since the cost of grain to increase your batch by one gallon is negligible, and the starters I do make are smaller, so I'm using much less DME. It also creates a lot more yeast than just a 2L starter.

"But WAIT! All of my hop additions are in 1oz increments, and increasing my batch by a gallon with throw off EVERYTHING!!!!"

Relax. Take a deep breath, it's ok. One extra gallon isn't going to make that much of a difference, and you can always adjust the timing of your later additions slightly if you're shooting for a very specific IBU. Or, you could choose a hop with a slightly higher AA% for bittering, and move your aroma additions slightly later to have the same effect. But you also have to consider that AA% change slightly from year to year and supplier to supplier, and most of us don't compensate for that change from one batch to the next. So, if you're not trying to be so exact that you're compensating for a change in AA%, then you probably won't notice much of a difference here. If you are trying to be that precise, then you're probably measuring your hop additions precisely anyway, and would have no problem compensating for the increased volume.

Personally, I made a slight adjustment to keep the total IBUs in the same ballpark, and left everything else the same, and haven't noticed any difference.

"BUT WAIT!!! What if I make a black-as-tar Russian Imperial Stout with a super freakin high OG????"

Again, you're diluting the extra gallon to about 1.040, so you'll be fine. If you want to pitch that slurry into a pale ale, just decant the extra liquid. It shouldn't have any noticeable effect. But, if you're concerned, then just skip this method on that batch. No worries.

Now, I'm sure there are a few of you that will take issue with this method, and that's fine. I'm certainly open to critique. Personally, I haven't run into any problems since I began using it. Since the long-term storage of yeast has been discussed in other threads, I'll defer to those on that subject. If you feel the need to transfer your slurry to sterilized water, than do so. I never have, and haven't had an issue. However, I haven't kept a jar of yeast over six or eight months, so I can speak to anything much longer than that.

Cheers!

 

[PseudoChef]

This seems way more complicated than just saving a bit of the original starter. Do what works for you, sure, but despite your promise, it doesn't change how I think about yeast harvesting.

 

[CA_Mouse]

A starter shouldn't be hopped, this is why everyone uses LME/DME to make their starter wort. Just like using the yeast from your 5 gallon beer on the next one, you don't want to dump a PA onto the yeast cake of an IIPA or Imperial Porter.

This won't change the way I look at yeast and certainly won't change my way of creating starters. Had you said that you are using extra wort from your mash, that may be different, but several of us already do that as well. I, personally, prefer to make a double starter for a new vial/strain or add a small amount of grain to my mash and pull an extra 1/2 gallon for making a starter for the next version of that particular beer. This makes more sense, since it is unhopped and can be used for any follow up beer.

 

[TheZymurgist]

This seems way more complicated than just saving a bit of the original starter. Do what works for you, sure, but despite your promise, it doesn't change how I think about yeast harvesting.

For me, I was already doing 2L starters, and only have a 2L flask, so I would either have to do an entirely extra starter to split, or get a larger flask. That's why this works better for me. Also, I've found it to be much cheaper as I'm using a lot less DME.

 

[TheZymurgist]

A starter shouldn't be hopped, this is why everyone uses LME/DME to make their starter wort. Just like using the yeast from your 5 gallon beer on the next one, you don't want to dump a PA onto the yeast cake of an IIPA or Imperial Porter.

This won't change the way I look at yeast and certainly won't change my way of creating starters. Had you said that you are using extra wort from your mash, that may be different, but several of us already do that as well. I, personally, prefer to make a double starter for a new vial/strain or add a small amount of grain to my mash and pull an extra 1/2 gallon for making a starter for the next version of that particular beer. This makes more sense, since it is unhopped and can be used for any follow up beer.

There's been plenty of debate on whether to hop a starter or not, but I've never ready anything that says it *shouldn't* be done. I haven't had any adverse effects from it, and if it is a concern, you can always decant. The remaining liquid would have a negligible effect on your final batch.

Also, I guess it's necessary to point out the title was facetious, as the very first sentence points out. :cross:

 

[PseudoChef]

You can certainly fit an extra 100-200 mL into a 2L Erlenmeyer and save that portion of wonderful, first gen yeast.

Or you could get a larger starter container for the whopping price of $4.99 the next time you place an online order.

 

[CA_Mouse]

For me, I was already doing 2L starters, and only have a 2L flask, so I would either have to do an entirely extra starter to split, or get a larger flask. That's why this works better for me.

Are you doing lagers and imperials? 5 gallon or 10 gallon batches? If you are doing 5 gallon ales under 1.065 or less, then you are probably over pitching? I did a 5 gallon 1.056 wheat beer yesterday that only needed a .85 liter starter. a 2 liter starter would have been major over pitching.

 

[weirdboy]

I don't understand what this has to do with yeast harvesting at all.


This looks like somewhat complicated instructions for making a starter with saved wort.

 

[Cottonmouth]

Tough crowd

 

[Calder]

Sounds like hard work.

I split off a bit of my initual starter and store in fridge in distiled water. Seems fine for up to 2 years.

From the initial pitch I just harvest slurry, and reuse a portion for next beer until I want a change of yeast. No washing, no starters.

 

[TheZymurgist]

You can certainly fit an extra 100-200 mL into a 2L Erlenmeyer and save that portion of wonderful, first gen yeast.

Or you could get a larger starter container for the whopping price of $4.99 the next time you place an online order.

That's the gallon jug I use for this method. My stir plate starters usually have a fair amount of overflow, so adding any more would be difficult. Besides, I get so much more yeast this way.

Are you doing lagers and imperials? 5 gallon or 10 gallon batches? If you are doing 5 gallon ales under 1.065 or less, then you are probably over pitching? I did a 5 gallon 1.056 wheat beer yesterday that only needed a .85 liter starter. a 2 liter starter would have been major over pitching.

They are 5 gallon batches, and the vast majority of what I brew is over 1.065, but even if it wasn't I'd still be far from over-pitching. Over-pitching is fairly difficult to do unless you're pitching onto an entire yeast cake. If you're wanting to stress the yeast in order to increase ester production, then that's another story. Besides, I prefer to do that with temperature, rather than pitch rate. By increasing both the pitch rate and temperature, you get both good attenuation and ester production. I'm not saying you're doomed to under attenuate by under pitching, only that I would rather reduce that risk if I can.

I don't understand what this has to do with yeast harvesting at all.


This looks like somewhat complicated instructions for making a starter with saved wort.

I'm not quite sure how to respond to this. That's kind of like saying you don't understand what yellow has to do with color. They are one and the same.

I've found it to be pretty simple. You're just adding a little more grain to your batch, and catching the extra runoff. No more difficult than dissolving DME into water and boiling. And if you're using the same strain often enough, it can eliminate the extra step of having to create a starter a few days before you brew, since this makes so much yeast.

I know this won't be for everyone, but I've found it to be far more simple and have had good results.

 

[weirdboy]

I'm not quite sure how to respond to this. That's kind of like saying you don't understand what yellow has to do with color. They are one and the same.

No, making a starter is not "harvesting yeast".


Harvesting yeast is a specific term with a different meaning than how you are using it. It means taking yeast from some existing beer and saving it for the purpose of reuse. An example in the homebrew world would be harvesting the pacman yeast strain from a bottle or two of Rogue beer, so that you can utilize it for homebrew purposes, since pacman is not easily purchased.

Here is a description of harvesting and reuse on a commercial scale:

http://www.wyeastlab.com/com-yeast-harvest.cfm

With such a system, I will point out that there isn't any starter involved at all. They just gather up a sufficient quantity of yeast from their existing fermentation, and repitch it.

 

[TheZymurgist]

No, making a starter is not "harvesting yeast".


Harvesting yeast is a specific term with a different meaning than how you are using it. It means taking yeast from some existing beer and saving it for the purpose of reuse. An example in the homebrew world would be harvesting the pacman yeast strain from a bottle or two of Rogue beer, so that you can utilize it for homebrew purposes, since pacman is not easily purchased.

Here is a description of harvesting and reuse on a commercial scale:

http://www.wyeastlab.com/com-yeast-harvest.cfm

With such a system, I will point out that there isn't any starter involved at all. They just gather up a sufficient quantity of yeast from their existing fermentation, and repitch it.

First off, you're arguing pointless semantics, seemingly just for the sake of arguing. Second, you said yourself harvesting is "taking yeast from some existing beer and saving it for the purpose of reuse." That's EXACTLY what I'm doing, just from a one gallon batch of beer. That's also what you're doing if you make a starter and save a portion of it, "for the purpose of reuse." The size of the batch, and whether or not you intend to drink the beer are irrelevant. If you would like to take up this argument in another thread, I'll be happy to engage you there.

 

[Zoidberg]

I think the first post of this a lot of info for a new. Its basically same as novel approach but your making starter from grains and boiled with a bath of beer.

Also your storing an entire starter rather than a portion.

I've done something similar. Basically I did the same. Made an extra big grain bill and took the last couple gallons of running and boiled them. And topped up so final amount totally about 1.038. Then I can this wort and sterilized in jar with pressure cooker. Wort is stored indefinitely for future use.

I then use the novel approach of extra big starters and storing a portion for future use.

Or sometimes if ita my last jar of yeast and I want a lot ill build a 2l starter and then store all yeast in jars.

Btw a gallon 1.040 starter should be able to be split into 6-8 jars and use for new starters. Each jar I stored is the yeast from .5l of yeast so typically in the range of 40-50bil cells

 

[bja]

A starter shouldn't be hopped, this is why everyone uses LME/DME to make their starter wort.

By saying this, I have to assume that you don't decant your starters before pitching, which IMO is 100 times worse than using hopped wort and decanting before pitching.

If you do decant, then how could using hopped wort make any noticeable difference?

 

[iijakii]

I did something similar back when I used to no-chill BIAB. I'd brew as usual, but after a few minutes of boil I'd drain off couple liters and use that as a real-wort starter while my batch was cooling to pitch temps over the next couple days. I enjoyed it.

Personally I wish I had a canning pot, I'd just knock out a bunch of wort for starters once a year. I think that + harvesting yeast from starter is the best method.

 

[Zoidberg]

Personally I wish I had a canning pot, I'd just knock out a bunch of wort for starters once a year. I think that + harvesting yeast from starter is the best method.

This is what I do.

I've done with dme in past and made 3 gallons at a time then canned. Next time I may just buy enough pale 2 row for 3 gallons @1.038 and do a mash just for starters and can it.

I then make quick easy starters and split, pitch and repeat.

 

[weirdboy]

First off, you're arguing pointless semantics, seemingly just for the sake of arguing. Second, you said yourself harvesting is "taking yeast from some existing beer and saving it for the purpose of reuse." That's EXACTLY what I'm doing, just from a one gallon batch of beer. That's also what you're doing if you make a starter and save a portion of it, "for the purpose of reuse." The size of the batch, and whether or not you intend to drink the beer are irrelevant. If you would like to take up this argument in another thread, I'll be happy to engage you there.

It's not semantics. They are two different concepts, and we use two different words to describe these concepts. I'm not trying to be difficult, but I do want you to understand that there's a real difference in meaning that is not just semantic. Professional brewers (and homebrewers) use these two words very differently, because they are two completely different processes.

You are making a starter. This is a great and useful thing, which I believe every homebrewer should do. One could make the claim that any starter is essentially a small batch of beer, which is technically true, but the purpose is different, and thus in the brewing world we use a different means of describing this than "making a tiny batch of beer to grow yeast".


Just like we have a special word for "making a tiny batch of beer to grow yeast", we also have a special word for "taking the yeast from an existing batch of beer so we can reuse it". That word is "harvest". So if you are speaking to a professional brewer about how he harvests yeast, the whole concept of making a smaller batch first doesn't even enter into it. They don't need to make a starter. They just collect yeast from one of their already fermenting batches, and pitch that directly onto another batch.

Here is another description of the harvesting process, this time in a homebrewing context, in this BYO article:

http://byo.com/stories/item/739-harvesting-yeast-techniques

The difference here is that harvesting is about collecting this yeast that came from fermenting a prior batch of beer, whereas making a starter is about creating an environment to grow yeast before pitching.


Again, I am not trying to be argumentative here, but I am trying to help you understand that you are using the word "harvest" very incorrectly. At least, from your description of the process, I see absolutely nothing about actually harvesting yeast. I am referring specifically to this part:

About six or so months ago, I started increasing my batch size by one gallon. This extra gallon gets run off, after the boil, into a (sanitized) one gallon glass jug and diluted (if necessary) to approximately 1.040 SG. How you do this is up to you, but I simply add water straight from the tap. Many will say your water needs to be boiled or sterilized in some way, but that's a different discussion that's been debated to death already.

I then pitch yeast into this one gallon mini-batch, and allow it to ferment. When it's done, there's roughly an inch of yeast in the bottom of the jug. I throw this in the fridge to cold crash, decant, and split into two or three small jars.

Maybe you mean that you are pitching harvested yeast, but you forgot to mention that part. Otherwise, from your description this is just making a one-gallon starter with saved wort. Which, don't get me wrong, is a useful concept and something I do all the time.


I also think that more people are aware of starters and use them, than are interested in harvesting and reusing yeast. Simply by wording your title more appropriately, you'd generate more interest and useful feedback in your thread.

 

[tagz]

It's not semantics. They are two different concepts, and we use two different words to describe these concepts. I'm not trying to be difficult, but I do want you to understand that there's a real difference in meaning that is not just semantic.

se·man·tic adjective \si-ˈman-tik\: of or relating to the meanings of words and phrases

 

[TheHairyHop]

A starter shouldn't be hopped, this is why everyone uses LME/DME to make their starter wort.

Lol what

 

[fletchergsmith]

This is what I do.



I've done with dme in past and made 3 gallons at a time then canned. Next time I may just buy enough pale 2 row for 3 gallons @1.038 and do a mash just for starters and can it.



I then make quick easy starters and split, pitch and repeat.

What size gars do you use



Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[fletchergsmith]

What size gars do you use



Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

Jars I mean



Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[rpe290]

snip

About six or so months ago, I started increasing my batch size by one gallon. This extra gallon gets run off, after the boil, into a (sanitized) one gallon glass jug and diluted (if necessary) to approximately 1.040 SG. How you do this is up to you, but I simply add water straight from the tap. Many will say your water needs to be boiled or sterilized in some way, but that's a different discussion that's been debated to death already.

I then pitch yeast into this one gallon mini-batch, and allow it to ferment. When it's done, there's roughly an inch of yeast in the bottom of the jug. I throw this in the fridge to cold crash, decant, and split into two or three small jars.

Boy you have a lot of chances for infection there...the more you play with it the more chance you have of getting infected.

If there is 1 area to take sanitization extra-seriously, its making yeast starters. You have low alcohol solution at best and hardly any hopping...using water straight out of the tap is COMPLETELY unacceptable IMO...take the time to boil and cool something that simple.

Personally, I just put about a gallon of hot water into my mashtun after done batch sparging, collect the runoff and freeze it until I need to make a starter, then boil and pitch.

 

[kenny_d]

Boy you have a lot of chances for infection there...the more you play with it the more chance you have of getting infected.

If there is 1 area to take sanitization extra-seriously, its making yeast starters. You have low alcohol solution at best and hardly any hopping...using water straight out of the tap is COMPLETELY unacceptable IMO...take the time to boil and cool something that simple.

Personally, I just put about a gallon of hot water into my mashtun after done batch sparging, collect the runoff and freeze it until I need to make a starter, then boil and pitch.

Are you saying that tap water isn't sanitary?

 

[bja]

Are you saying that tap water isn't sanitary?

I guess his isn't.

 

[iBrewR]

There's sanitary as in safe to drink.
There's sanitary as in just a small amount of bacteria that may take hold in a sugar rich solution.
Will your yeast get to that sugar first? If probably is good enough for you, use tap water.

 

[TheZymurgist]

Boy you have a lot of chances for infection there...the more you play with it the more chance you have of getting infected.

If there is 1 area to take sanitization extra-seriously, its making yeast starters. You have low alcohol solution at best and hardly any hopping...using water straight out of the tap is COMPLETELY unacceptable IMO...take the time to boil and cool something that simple.

Personally, I just put about a gallon of hot water into my mashtun after done batch sparging, collect the runoff and freeze it until I need to make a starter, then boil and pitch.

There's sanitary as in safe to drink.
There's sanitary as in just a small amount of bacteria that may take hold in a sugar rich solution.
Will your yeast get to that sugar first? If probably is good enough for you, use tap water.

I've been using tap water to top off everything from full batches, to starters, to mead, and I've never had an infection. If you prefer to boil your water that's fine, but like I said, that's a subject that's been debated to death already, so go rehash it in another thread.

 

[Pappers_]

Moderator Note: Thanks to the OP for posting this interesting approach and to those who have responded to it. Critical responses are fine but keep them helpful please and avoid excessive argumentative-ness.

 

[kenny_d]

I'll definitely try this out on my next batch! Thanks for sharing. As of now I'm just dumping trub in to mason jars and using starters to reenergize.

 

[Zoidberg]

Jars I mean



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I use a mix of pint and quart jars.

So if I need a 2 liter starter or basically 2 qt starter I can take 4 pint jars dump them in a sanitized gallon jug and add yeast cake previously harvested and stored in the same type of jar. ��