Thinking of going pro

[Hokie_Brewer]

My friend and I are in the very early concept stages of a brewpub, and I'm incredibly excited about it.

I'm only 23, so I figure now is the time to take a huge risk like this before I have any family commitments that would make it more difficult. We think our concept is very unique/original and we think that we can make as good of beer as anything you can get locally, so we're gonna take the shot.

It's a long way off, but I'm working on the menu, concept, business plan, and beginning to think of procuring all (a LOT) of capital that we will need to start this up right. I know that the biggest reason that small businesses fail is lack of capital, and I will not be part of that statistic.

Anyway, I've been in touch with a local brewpub and am going to observe a brew sometime in the next couple weeks, to see the process on that scale. I'm psyched.

Well, wish me luck!

 

[SD-SLIM]

Best of luck...life is what you make of it, so shrug of the negatively and follow your dreams!

 

[humann_brewing]

Awesome, good luck to you. I think almost all of us dream of that

 

[ryandlf]

Good luck! The $ seems to be the tough part, so if you got that, a good location, a great product, and thirsty customers you will do well. Wouldn't be a bad idea to use some of your capital for some market research.

Check out the podcast from 4/2/2006 on The Brewing Network. It has a guy from Alesmith talking all about setting up your own place and his experience with it etc.

 

[carnevoodoo]

It is a lot of work, a lot of frustration, and a lot of money. If you can make it happen, I think you'll be happy. I'm 34 and working on a way to make the jump to being a professional, and I've learned quickly that I can't like money AND brewing. I have to pick one or the other. I'm still picking brewing, but it is already tough.

 

[Sheldon]

which local club are you referring to?

 

[Hokie_Brewer]

Good luck! The $ seems to be the tough part, so if you got that, a good location, a great product, and thirsty customers you will do well. Wouldn't be a bad idea to use some of your capital for some market research.

Check out the podcast from 4/2/2006 on The Brewing Network. It has a guy from Alesmith talking all about setting up your own place and his experience with it etc.

Great, I'll definitely check out that podcast!

I truly think the market here in Northern Virginia craves good beer, and people have the money to pay top dollar for it.

 

[Hokie_Brewer]

It is a lot of work, a lot of frustration, and a lot of money. If you can make it happen, I think you'll be happy. I'm 34 and working on a way to make the jump to being a professional, and I've learned quickly that I can't like money AND brewing. I have to pick one or the other. I'm still picking brewing, but it is already tough.

I hear so many older guys talking about how they'd love to go pro, but the money just isn't there to make it worth quitting their jobs. As early as I am in my career, the money isn't as high as it would be later in life, so I think it's a good time to do it.

And we're looking to be owners of the place as well. This would be as much a restaurant as a brewery, and I think with our concept, both will be very successful in this area

 

[ryandlf]

I've learned quickly that I can't like money AND brewing.

Well, you can like money...just because you like it doesn't mean you'll have a ton of it But seriously. I'm sure a lot of pro brewers make a healthy living. I don't want to break down all the costs involved, but beer has a HUGE markup. If you have customers and you're selling all of your product quickly you'll make good money.

There are a lot of restaurant and bar owners driving around in luxury cars and spending the weekends in their vacation home's pool. Just because you make the product yourself doesn't mean you're going to be poor.

 

[Hokie_Brewer]

Oh, and I'm not sure if you guys have seen this, but it soon may be even cheaper to make beer at the brewpub scale:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...-for-tax-breaks/2011/04/29/AFITYrLF_blog.html

 

[Yooper]

I hear so many older guys talking about how they'd love to go pro, but the money just isn't there to make it worth quitting their jobs. As early as I am in my career, the money isn't as high as it would be later in life, so I think it's a good time to do it.

And we're looking to be owners of the place as well. This would be as much a restaurant as a brewery, and I think with our concept, both will be very successful in this area

I think that if you're going to do this, NOW is the time. It will never be easier when you're older because you may have more $$$$ but you'll have more responsibilites as well. No way you will want to quit your job to take a risk like this if you have a wife and kids!

I'm a big believer in taking a calculated risk to live your dream. If you will be happy and this is your dream, you need to do it!

 

[justinakajuice]

I am also interested in doing this with my BIL/co-brewer. I see a brewpub as the most cost effective route in going pro. I was also pondering the idea of having the restaurant half run by someone else. They can deal with that headache while it frees me up for the brewing half. I'm also in the No.VA area and see the high demand, low supply of craft breweries. MD has a great base of craft breweries already established. It's our turn to shine, dammit!

 

[theonetrueruss]

you are right.. now is the time to take those risks... when you get older you will be less risk tolerant... go for it and don't let the nay sayers stop you! good luck!

 

[Hokie_Brewer]

I am also interested in doing this with my BIL/co-brewer. I see a brewpub as the most cost effective route in going pro. I was also pondering the idea of having the restaurant half run by someone else. They can deal with that headache while it frees me up for the brewing half. I'm also in the No.VA area and see the high demand, low supply of craft breweries. MD has a great base of craft breweries already established. It's our turn to shine, dammit!

Cheers!

 

[Teromous]

Congrats man, VA is sore for breweries in general. It's a pretty good drive from VB but if I'm up that way I'll check it out. Keep us updated.

 

[HokieBrewer]

I'd consider not doing food. Check out www.fullsteam.ag , a new brewery in Durham, NC. They've got a great bar where they sell pints at retail, and they also sell wholesale to other bars and restaurants. For food, they've got a fantastic outdoor area and a bunch of gourmet local food trucks pull up each night.

It gives the paying customer great food options, and it lets the brewery solely focus on making great beer. Plus it keeps upfront costs down with less equipment, and overhead costs down with less employees (cooks and servers.)

I've given considerable thought to it too, but for a few reasons have decided against it. PM me if you want to talk offline.

 

[boo boo]

Go for it man. Now is the time to do something like this.
I wish you all the luck in the world and look forward to seeing your name among all the great craftbrewers in the US.

 

[brettwasbtd]

Before I can endorse this, I must taste your brew

 

[Teromous]

I'd consider not doing food. Check out www.fullsteam.ag , a new brewery in Durham, NC. They've got a great bar where they sell pints at retail, and they also sell wholesale to other bars and restaurants. For food, they've got a fantastic outdoor area and a bunch of gourmet local food trucks pull up each night.

It gives the paying customer great food options, and it lets the brewery solely focus on making great beer. Plus it keeps upfront costs down with less equipment, and overhead costs down with less employees (cooks and servers.)

I've given considerable thought to it too, but for a few reasons have decided against it. PM me if you want to talk offline.

I think in VA if you serve alcohol you're required to sell food as well. I'm not sure if that applies if you're only serving beer but I think it is. It's one of those weird things, like being capped on pool tables and being licensed/contracted for juke boxes.

 

[TastySalmon]

I guess I can offer some advice.

1.) Brewpubs are very risky. The chances of a brewery surviving is about 10% (just a brewery, not a brewpub). The chances of a brewpub surviving are even lower than 10%. The reason being in order to be successful with a brewpub you have to be a professional-class brewer AND professional cook. Trust me, if you think you're going to be spending all of your time brewing at first, you will end up spending more time in the kitchen than actually making beer. If you make crappy food, people will not come even if you make good beer.

If you are intent on starting a brewpub, get a job working in a kitchen at a better restaurant for a while. You need to know basics and operating fundamentals before you even think about making a menu. You won't regret this. I made money through college cooking at 2 restaurants. This is why I have absolutely NO ambition to own a brewpub.

2.) If you want to make a career out of brewing, skip the brewpub part and invest your money into buying higher quality professional equipment. In the end you might be glad you did. For the amount of money it will take to actually open a restaurant portion of you business, you could probably have gone to a 7+bbl system with a few extra fermenters (no to mention some older bottlers and such).

3.) Keep your day job.

4.) Good luck, and don't listen to any of the people that tell you it won't be possible to start a brewery. Most people who will tell you it's not possible know absolutely nothing about brewing, let alone beer.

 

[dantheman13]

I guess I can offer some advice.

1.) Brewpubs are very risky. The chances of a brewery surviving is about 10% (just a brewery, not a brewpub). The chances of a brewpub surviving are even lower than 10%. The reason being in order to be successful with a brewpub you have to be a professional-class brewer AND professional cook. Trust me, if you think you're going to be spending all of your time brewing at first, you will end up spending more time in the kitchen than actually making beer. If you make crappy food, people will not come even if you make good beer.

I think the best answer to this is capital, which is what the OP says he is going to have. At the brewpubs here, the kitchen isn't run by the brewer. They hire a restaurant manager and a chef. If he is successful, he'll probably end up hiring a head brewer to run that side as well so that he can focus on the business itself.

 

[TastySalmon]

Sorry, I was just trying to offer advice.

 

[jtakacs]

never started a brewery (only designed them), but i have started more than one business and i agree, the number 1 risk of not getting out of the gestation period (3 years imo) is lack of capital. beyond that its pure supply, demand, and quality.

get past the gestation period and you need to make sure you meet a demand, provide the supply and do it better than the competition.

the advice i always give (unasked or not) is my own experience. i would never recommend anyone start their own business, and i would never do anything else than work for myself. they cancel each other out, but i can assure you, business owners understand it. that being said; do it and good luck...

also, the rule of thumb is 90% of new businesses fail within 1 year. 90% of what's left fail within 3 and 90% of what's left fail within 5. its not meant as a scare tactic, but you have to have a business plan, and revise it as you go.

the last other thing would be that you can be assured more than half of your time will be sucked into running a business, which is different than the work you do being engineering, selling purses, etc., business takes work. i personally like partnerships that are matched for specific expertise that way you can do things that best suit personalities.

 

[upperNY01brewer]

Take a look at probrewer.com tons of great info.

 

[Hokie_Brewer]

I guess I can offer some advice.

1.) Brewpubs are very risky. The chances of a brewery surviving is about 10% (just a brewery, not a brewpub). The chances of a brewpub surviving are even lower than 10%. The reason being in order to be successful with a brewpub you have to be a professional-class brewer AND professional cook. Trust me, if you think you're going to be spending all of your time brewing at first, you will end up spending more time in the kitchen than actually making beer. If you make crappy food, people will not come even if you make good beer.

If you are intent on starting a brewpub, get a job working in a kitchen at a better restaurant for a while. You need to know basics and operating fundamentals before you even think about making a menu. You won't regret this. I made money through college cooking at 2 restaurants. This is why I have absolutely NO ambition to own a brewpub.

2.) If you want to make a career out of brewing, skip the brewpub part and invest your money into buying higher quality professional equipment. In the end you might be glad you did. For the amount of money it will take to actually open a restaurant portion of you business, you could probably have gone to a 7+bbl system with a few extra fermenters (no to mention some older bottlers and such).

3.) Keep your day job.

4.) Good luck, and don't listen to any of the people that tell you it won't be possible to start a brewery. Most people who will tell you it's not possible know absolutely nothing about brewing, let alone beer.

This is interesting to me, cause I have actually been reading the opposite. I've read that 80% of restaurants fail within the first 3-5 years, but MUCH fewer brewpubs do. (Serious question, no hostility meant) Do you have figures/data to support this?

Also, like I said earlier, my friend and I are just as interested in making good beer as we are making good food and providing a trendy/fun place to hang out and have a good time.

I'm currently an engineer. I think that this is a great time for me to make this choice, because if I were to take this chance, and I were to fail in a year or two, then I can just go back to being an engineer! I would want to give it my all if i was going to do it, and I would make some sacrifices to pursue this full time.

Anyway, thanks for the comments/advice, I do appreciate it!

 

[Hokie_Brewer]

I think the best answer to this is capital, which is what the OP says he is going to have. At the brewpubs here, the kitchen isn't run by the brewer. They hire a restaurant manager and a chef. If he is successful, he'll probably end up hiring a head brewer to run that side as well so that he can focus on the business itself.

This is essentially my plan. I'd like to work on a smaller concept menu to show investors the vision of the place, and then (after securing the necessary capital) hire a professional chef to develop the full menu with us.

I'm just as interested in the business side as I am the brewing side, so I could absolutely see myself eventually hiring a brewer to run the place if I were to become successful.

thanks for the support!

 

[Wakadaka]

Really have no idea how relevant this is, but I recently heard that Legend Brewery is expanding their distribution throughout more areas of VA. I don't know if they serve it up there or you have ever had it, but they make a good brown ale and a decent porter. My uncle who is a former restaurant owner in Williamsburg, VA told me that they are expanding distribution to the virginia beach area, but I have no idea about NOVA.

Again, this might be of no effect or worry for you, but its something to think about.

Good luck, let us know any details

 

[dantheman13]

Sorry, I was just trying to offer advice.

I didn't mean to sound argumentative or anything, so sorry if I did.

 

[Squatchito]

Really have no idea how relevant this is, but I recently heard that Legend Brewery is expanding their distribution throughout more areas of VA. I don't know if they serve it up there or you have ever had it, but they make a good brown ale and a decent porter. My uncle who is a former restaurant owner in Williamsburg, VA told me that they are expanding distribution to the virginia beach area, but I have no idea about NOVA.

Again, this might be of no effect or worry for you, but its something to think about.

Good luck, let us know any details

New to the forums, but I live in the area and thought I would chime in from a customers perspective.

I wouldn't worry so much about the breweries in SoVA distributing up North(I run a beer department, Legend is definitely in the market now distributed by ABIB). The much bigger concern would be competing with the many places that have and are popping up all over the area. That isn't to say there are an alarming number of brewpubs in the area(actually there are very few). But, there are a bunch of great beer bars established most of which have expanded to multiple locations at this point. This is all failing to mention the quick jump into the city where it gets even more intense.

Still, good beer is good beer. If your making good beer, the people will come. Best of luck to you.

 

[beersteiner2345]

Go for it. You're 23. I am 29. That's only 5.x years, but man what a world of difference it makes. Do it now, and do it right.

Maybe take some general business classes as well. As an MBA graduate (in three days) that has been in the work force for several years, I can tell you that no school will substitute for real world experience and business sense. However, you would learn a LOT of invaluable things that are way easier to pick up in a risk free classroom environment rather than with your business...

 

[SPLASTiK]

The Brew Strong show on the Brewing Network is going to be doing a new series on starting a brewery... They did the first show live tonight where they talked about a couple things but they plan to delve into the whole paperwork process and other topics related to starting a brewery. The show guest starred another guy who is starting a brewpub (Kinetic Brewing) and they plan to have several guests discussing various topics... they mentioned maybe getting Bamforth on to discuss education as well I think.

Might be worth looking into when the archives get updated.

 

[HokieBrewer]

Still, good beer is good beer. If your making good beer, the people will come. Best of luck to you.

If you forgo the restaurant side, all these new craft beer bars popping up become channels to get your product to the public.

 

[Hokie_Brewer]

If you forgo the restaurant side, all these new craft beer bars popping up become channels to get your product to the public.

Fellow hokie brewer!

We are just as big of foodies as we are beer geeks. So the restaurant side is just as important to us as the brewery.

 

[TopherM]

Hokie.....do you currently have some really good small scale batches of beer that you brew? Your original post makes it sound like you have never brewed before. I would make sure you have the brewing part down before you get anywhere close to moving to a brewpub. The great thing about brewing is that the basics are all the same, so if you can make a good batch in a bucket and repeat the results over and over, you are then on your way to having a good recipie you can repeat at larger scales.

As a brewpub conessiour of sorts, I would discourage you from wanting to be the "corporate" brewpub like BJs, Rock Bottom/Big River, Hops in the 90s that serves generic craft brews (brown, red, stout, porter, blond, ipa) that don't offer anything unique. Have a few staple beers for your everyday BCM customer, but have a heavy rotation of seasonal beers for real craft beer lovers. There are 6 brewpubs here in town, and I've been to all 6. All 6 have great food, but I no longer go to 5 of them because they all have generic beers that taste pretty much the same from brewpub to brewpub. The one that I do still frequent only keeps their blond, brown, and stout as permanent staples, then rotates its other 5 taps with seasonal and experimental beers. I love it, and run into lots of other craft brew conosseurs at that particular brewpub (run by one of Cigar City's founding brewers).

Good luck!

 

[8rnw8]

Congratulations and good luck to you! Keep us posted. I can't think of anything I would rather do, but I need to get quite a few more brews under by belt before I'm ready to make such a step.

 

[Hokie_Brewer]

Hokie.....do you currently have some really good small scale batches of beer that you brew? Your original post makes it sound like you have never brewed before. I would make sure you have the brewing part down before you get anywhere close to moving to a brewpub. The great thing about brewing is that the basics are all the same, so if you can make a good batch in a bucket and repeat the results over and over, you are then on your way to having a good recipie you can repeat at larger scales.

As a brewpub conessiour of sorts, I would discourage you from wanting to be the "corporate" brewpub like BJs, Rock Bottom/Big River, Hops in the 90s that serves generic craft brews (brown, red, stout, porter, blond, ipa) that don't offer anything unique. Have a few staple beers for your everyday BCM customer, but have a heavy rotation of seasonal beers for real craft beer lovers. There are 6 brewpubs here in town, and I've been to all 6. All 6 have great food, but I no longer go to 5 of them because they all have generic beers that taste pretty much the same from brewpub to brewpub. The one that I do still frequent only keeps their blond, brown, and stout as permanent staples, then rotates its other 5 taps with seasonal and experimental beers. I love it, and run into lots of other craft brew conosseurs at that particular brewpub (run by one of Cigar City's founding brewers).

Good luck!

Appreciate the advice. I do have homebrewing experience, just not with the brewpub-scale equipment, which is why I'm on my way to the local brewpub to see their process.

Our initial thoughts are just 2-3 "regular" beers with the other taps constantly being switched around. Also, the other local brewpub is more traditional beer styles, so we would sort of go the other way to distinguish ourselves (DFH-esque, but not as extreme i think)

 

[Guden]

Wow, good luck. I'm at a similar point in my life (22, just about to graduate) and have written up a rough business plan for a brewpub, CADed out the brewery, etc... but just don't think I can justify the risks at this point.

Keep us updated on the progress, I want to check it out when you open.

 

[samc]

I've owned several small businesses and have a business background. OP sounds like he is proceeding along a smart path and at 23 he is in a great time of his life for risk taking. If you have the capital to survive the early stages you should be good to go. Someone mentioned 3 years, honestly I would have shot myself if it took me 3 years to get profitable in my businesses. If you can't justify a faster timetable and it's your $$$, you might want to consider something else.

If I was going to go into the beer business at this point, I'd start by wholesaling my product to bars/restaurants until I built up a following and knew the product had legs. I'd not want to be one of the guys who couldn't make the 1st year anniversary on the 5 year lease.

 

[carnevoodoo]

I've owned several small businesses and have a business background. OP sounds like he is proceeding along a smart path and at 23 he is in a great time of his life for risk taking. If you have the capital to survive the early stages you should be good to go. Someone mentioned 3 years, honestly I would have shot myself if it took me 3 years to get profitable in my businesses. If you can't justify a faster timetable and it's your $$$, you might want to consider something else.

If I was going to go into the beer business at this point, I'd start by wholesaling my product to bars/restaurants until I built up a following and knew the product had legs. I'd not want to be one of the guys who couldn't make the 1st year anniversary on the 5 year lease.

Wholesaling your product to bars is a perfect way to start if you are going to have a production facility. Having a client base established ahead of time is difficult, but if you know the right people, it is possible.

Also, if you are starting a brewpub, your food needs to stand on its own. Yes, you will make a killing selling beer along with the food (highest profit margin is selling pints of beer you make yourself) but if the food sucks, nobody will come for the beer.

 

[Hokie_Brewer]

Wholesaling your product to bars is a perfect way to start if you are going to have a production facility. Having a client base established ahead of time is difficult, but if you know the right people, it is possible.

Also, if you are starting a brewpub, your food needs to stand on its own. Yes, you will make a killing selling beer along with the food (highest profit margin is selling pints of beer you make yourself) but if the food sucks, nobody will come for the beer.

Agreed, the food will be able to stand on its own (if everything goes according to plan!), we will not be a bar that serves food just cause we have to because of VA laws. This will be a restaurant, that happens to make it's own beer as well