The War on Drugs: They've Finally Arrested All the Kingpins...

[rattler_mt]

actually i do believe every state thats put medical marijuana to a vote has voted for it.....i know Montana passed it by a 2-1 margin............the feds keep saying pot has no good properties.........the general populace keeps calling BS on the feds everytime its put up to a vote.............

 

[Ryanh1801]

I can say it all I want because it is the truth, Ryan. Not enough of our populace realizes that we the people can in effect overturn what we the people see as bad laws by refusing, as jurors, to convict on those charges.

What you also refuse to acknowledge is the established principles of entrapment and enticement. This has nothing to do with "being a man". This has to do with the overarching principles of living in a free society that values personal freedoms and individual liberties in some form...and also one that values established procedure when it comes to law enforcement and prosecution...and also one that values the idea of a law actually meaning something. When I say "meaning something", I mean that the prosecutors who are prosecuting people make sure that they are trying to achieve some sort of ideal end rather than simply running up the numbers. For example, in this case, would prosecuting these kids really help towards the goal of eradicating drugs? Prosecutors have to make judgment calls, and they can choose not to try a case if they feel it is unnecessary or unwarranted. So, should they prosecute with a goal of tallying up as many prosecutions as they can? Or should they prosecute with a higher goal, a purpose, driving them?

In essence, Ryan, you are advocating for having laws for laws' sake....and that when a particular law is broken, it doesn't matter what the circumstances surrounding it are. Again, I'm telling you that our justice system does not work in such a primitive, simplistic fashion. Prosecutors, judges and jurors have choices that they can (and do) exercise when it comes to judging the overarching point of the law. If our laws have no purpose other than to prosecute people, then our justice system little more than a club with which to wail on the populace---yet in reality, our justice system should strive to achieve a greater ideal than simply making sure the absolute letter of every law is followed. Hence the terms "letter of the law" vs. "spirit of the law".

Again, your view of the American justice system is extremely simplistic, and runs contrary to the idea of achieving ideal goals via said system.

Once again, what you are saying is your opinion... If you think your way is the right way thats fine, but don't sit and try and talk down to me. I would bet I know more about how the U.S. justice system works than you will ever know. So go on living in your own little dream world, don't let the paranoia get to ya too bad. Im done with this thread.

 

[c.n.budz]

I love it when some college kid that's taken a couple criminal justice classes thinks they know everything about the criminal justice system and society as a whole...

 

[Ryanh1801]

I love it when some college kid that's taken a couple criminal justice classes thinks they know everything about the criminal justice system and society as a whole...

HAHA. yeah thats it.. What makes you qualified to talk about it???? I think the fact I have done internships in the Criminal Justice system, have one class left in CJ. So yes I do know the system. So please explain to me what you have done, that makes you more qualified?

 

[Klainmeister]

I can piss farther than both of you...

 

[c.n.budz]

HAHA. yeah thats it.. What makes you qualified to talk about it???? I think the fact I have done internships in the Criminal Justice system, have one class left in CJ. So yes I do know the system. So please explain to me what you have done, that makes you more qualified?

I never made any all encompassing statements about how the system is supposed to work. My comments in this thread have been specifically about the situation that Evan! originally posted about. At your age I felt the same way you do now, "I know everything." I'm sure you are a very intelligent, well read individual, but you are drawing very broad conclusions based on classroom theory and limited life experience.

 

[c.n.budz]

I can piss farther than both of you...

just don't do it into the wind

 

[Reverend JC]

or if you have eaten asparagus, cuz then it smells funny

 

[Pugilist]

I still agree that to put it simply, marijuana is still illegal. The reason so is probably because it impairs judgement and reactionary skills for driving, etc. Personally we shouldnt waste any tax dollars on going after 10th grade Timmy and his nickel bag of seeds and shake. We should go after the guy who has an enormous crop growing in his attic and is selling it to the schoolkids.

This country needs to prioritize and stop wasting money on stings like this when we have a global terror threat, and my BIGGEST beef with my beloved country, people sleeping on the streets while professional athletes and corporations make billions.

As well get some money to the 21 yr old who comes back from Iraq with no legs to his 1 room apt. in Backwaterville USA, with a wife and two kids waiting. Our government treats these veterans like they treat spent ammo casings....their purpose and usefullness is served.

These are just a couple ideas of where to put our taxdollars and make it count.

 

[Ryanh1801]

I never made any all encompassing statements about how the system is supposed to work. My comments in this thread have been specifically about the situation that Evan! originally posted about. At your age I felt the same way you do now, "I know everything." I'm sure you are a very intelligent, well read individual, but you are drawing very broad conclusions based on classroom theory and limited life experience.

I really think you need to reread, im still trying to figure out what BROAD CONCLUSION I made. I am really biting my tongue on the age comment, and trying not to stoop to your level.

 

[Evan!]

Once again, what you are saying is your opinion... If you think your way is the right way thats fine, but don't sit and try and talk down to me. I would bet I know more about how the U.S. justice system works than you will ever know. So go on living in your own little dream world, don't let the paranoia get to ya too bad. Im done with this thread.

I've found out 3 things:

1. You really have no substantial retort to my statements. "That's just your opinion" is how a middle school student comes back from someone calling them fatty or ugly. If you have no substantial retort to the substance of my posts, then I agree, we have nothing more to talk about.
2. Your supposed credential of having interned in the CJ system are meaningless when you can't or won't address the substance of my argument.
3. You take these debates way too personally. RDWHAHB, man. I enjoy healthy debate, but when people start taking it personally and getting pissed off, it's just stupid.

Furthermore...I don't see how asserting that prosecutors, judges and jurors have prudence that they may exercise makes me paranoid or is in some way untrue. What was it that I said that was a dream world? Seriously, I'd like to know. But instead, you just tell me that it's just my opinion, that I'm wrong, and storm off. WTF is that, man? But yeah, you're right, you know more than I ever will, so I'm going back to my dream world now.

 

[Pugilist]

You take these debates way too personally. RDWHAHB, man. I enjoy healthy debate, but when people start taking it personally and getting pissed off, it's just stupid.

Have to agree with Evan here. In most debate type threads we are opposite ends of the spectrum, but he has VERY good arguments and I respect everyones opinion. Its nice to come on here for the expert beer advice and mix some debating in with sharp people. If you take things personal, you should probably leave these threads alone.

Meanwhile I will RDWHAHB with my sierra pale and read on!

 

[MikeFlynn74]

I really wish I could slap ever person who says "if your not doing anything wrong whats the problem?"

UGH!

 

[Seabee John]

my BIGGEST beef with my beloved country, people sleeping on the streets while professional athletes and corporations make billions.

As well get some money to the 21 yr old who comes back from Iraq with no legs to his 1 room apt. in Backwaterville USA, with a wife and two kids waiting. Our government treats these veterans like they treat spent ammo casings....their purpose and usefullness is served.

These are just a couple ideas of where to put our taxdollars and make it count.

... Man you got your head so far up your A$$ no wonder you can't see the light.

1. People who make billions do not make the people live on the street...bad choices do.
2. If I make billions, what qualifies you to tell me I can't keep it...I EARNED IT!
3. I lost three friends when I was in Iraq, had 4 more come home with purple hearts and mostly in tact... THIS Government treats them like gold...takes care of their families, provides them with the best medical care available, does everything it can to let them know we appreciate the sacrifice.

So before you ride off into your sunset spanky, climb down off that high horse of yours and I'll give your neck a good yank and see if we can't pull your head out of that oraface... please don't speak of what you have no knowledge.

Oh and BTW, before anyone let's off with a RDWHAHB for me... I'm as calm as can be... the way I see it, if you open your mouth, you aughta have a skin thickness to match.

 

[Pugilist]

... Man you got your head so far up your A$$ no wonder you can't see the light.

1. People who make billions do not make the people live on the street...bad choices do.
2. If I make billions, what qualifies you to tell me I can't keep it...I EARNED IT!
3. I lost three friends when I was in Iraq, had 4 more come home with purple hearts and mostly in tact... THIS Government treats them like gold...takes care of their families, provides them with the best medical care available, does everything it can to let them know we appreciate the sacrifice.

So before you ride off into your sunset spanky, climb down off that high horse of yours and I'll give your neck a good yank and see if we can't pull your head out of that oraface... please don't speak of what you have no knowledge.

Oh and BTW, before anyone let's off with a RDWHAHB for me... I'm as calm as can be... the way I see it, if you open your mouth, you aughta have a skin thickness to match.

Since you replied without any anger in your reply (laughable) lets see.
1. Guess my statement went completely over your head. I did not say people who make billions are the cause, I stated that corporations and NFL teams making it while people are freezing to death on the street is a sick irony. Bad choices are to blame for these people? How about inner city poverty, no equal opportunity for them and racism that "doesnt exist".

2. If you personally make billions go ahead an hoard it and live in your mansion on the hill you earned it. Spend it as you see fit, nowhere did I see bill gates should be stripped of his earnings, AGAIN you read into my statement.

3. I also lost friends in Iraq. Was in the police academy during 9/11 and our class leader got deployed with alot of us after graduation. He was just married, just had a baby and is now KIA. His widow is living in a ghetto and the government fights her tooth and nail about giving her checks so she can live. There are plenty of other vets I know that have to travel 100 miles each way to get medical care because the VA doesnt accomodate them. So dont try and blow smoke up my ass.

Before you make judgements and proclaim yourself an expert, turn on the light inside your own arse and open your eyes. While you are at it, maybe pop that bubble you are in and see how the rest of the country is faring before making broad brush statements. Ok "Spanky"?

RDWHAHB.

 

[Seabee John]

Since you replied without any anger in your reply (laughable) lets see.
1. Guess my statement went completely over your head. I did not say people who make billions are the cause, I stated that corporations and NFL teams making it while people are freezing to death on the street is a sick irony. Bad choices are to blame for these people? How about inner city poverty, no equal opportunity for them and racism that "doesnt exist".

2. If you personally make billions go ahead an hoard it and live in your mansion on the hill you earned it. Spend it as you see fit, nowhere did I see bill gates should be stripped of his earnings, AGAIN you read into my statement.

3. I also lost friends in Iraq. Was in the police academy during 9/11 and our class leader got deployed with alot of us after graduation. He was just married, just had a baby and is now KIA. His widow is living in a ghetto and the government fights her tooth and nail about giving her checks so she can live. There are plenty of other vets I know that have to travel 100 miles each way to get medical care because the VA doesnt accomodate them. So dont try and blow smoke up my ass.

Before you make judgements and proclaim yourself an expert, turn on the light inside your own arse and open your eyes. While you are at it, maybe pop that bubble you are in and see how the rest of the country is faring before making broad brush statements. Ok "Spanky"?

RDWHAHB.

Never did I say nor imply that racism does or doesn't exist. I didn't mention weather or not we needed "equal opportunity" I also never claimed to be an expert on anything. I just mentioned my views on things....wait... let me tug a little more...

Ok

"If you personally make billions go ahead an hoard it and live in your mansion on the hill you earned it."

- Can I assume based on your statement that if you believe I can "hoard" money, there must be a finite amount of it? If this is true, then you must also believe in the redistribution of wealth? Why is it that all of the social justice whiners always complain about so and so having too much this or too much that? Everyone comes into this world with one body, one brain, and once chance to make it. Yes some start off better than others... so what. I live in a little 800 SQFT house in an average part of town. I'm 35, and a freshman in college. I decided to do something with my life rather than bitching about my situation.

I truly am sorry for the loss of your friends, and it's sad that some vets are having a hard time of things. I do know of several organizations who help out with these issues. (we had one of our gals get killed in 06 and she named her kid as the beneficiary for her life insurance. Long story short, the kid or the family will not see a dime till shes 18...we got them some help) PM me for some names and #'s

And to your last statement, even in the light of today's economic down turns, we still have it better than the 70's & 80's. That's not to say it will not get worse...it will and soon. All I'm saying is I've never wanted for a job a day in my life, I always had the ability to find one because I had ambition. You say I'm closed minded because I paint life with a broad brush... I'll tell you if it looks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck. I'm fed up with non hackers who just want a give away check from uncle sam.

you once said that it was "sick Irony" to see there were haves and have nots... I say it's sick irony that someone who cares so much about the down drodden has even two minutes of time to hang out on HBT when the world needs saving... I mean, you ARE writing a check every payday and passing it on to the have nots right? (and I'm not referring to your taxes) Just something to ponder

Oh and thanks for the advise.. I relaxed, had a few homebrews and cranked out 15 gal today....no worries here.

 

[McCall St. Brewer]

Weed should not be illegal. Keeping it that way just creates way more problems than it ever could solve, just as prohibition did that back in the thirties.

Even as a parent of teenagers, let's look at the issue of drug sales in high school. Now, I'm not thrilled with students selling weed and ecstasy out of their lockers in school. But what if weed were no longer illegal? Beer and wine can be bought in any liquor store. Even though high school students are too young to buy it, is beer generally sold in high school hallways? I think not.

Make the stuff legal and you eliminate the drug dealers.

 

[Pugilist]

you once said that it was "sick Irony" to see there were haves and have nots... I say it's sick irony that someone who cares so much about the down drodden has even two minutes of time to hang out on HBT when the world needs saving

Obviously I am not capable of "saving the world". I make enough to pay my bills and have a bit left over to try and enjoy life, my wife/family, homebrewing, etc. I cant financially help anyone but in my line of work I have had the opportunity to save a few lives, I work with women who are victims of domestic violence and try to get them and their children placement somewhere safe. I also have done the big brother program and just saw a kid who I arrested about 8 times when he was a JV, but didnt give up on get placed into Seton Hall law school. VERY satisfying.

So I do my best to help the "down trodden". I see you were a seabee and respect that you have done something for the USA as well, I am sure you continue to in your own way.

I also have no use for the people who cry that the "System" has wronged them and want folks hard earned tax dollars while they sit home and watch jerry springer and BS with their friends without trying to better their situation. There are plenty though that unlike you and I did not get a chance to better themselves and never had the guidance or opportunity without people outside their life circle that saw something in them and helped. They are the ones that concern me.

There are still vets from the Vietnam war living on the street, some of them did numerous tours there and came back mentally scarred, like many that are returning from the Middle East, and never got the help they needed. As I stated in my first reply, that is downright inexcusable in a country that is one of the so called "Superpowers".

I am trying to patiently wait for my SNPA to finish conditioning in the bottle, and need to transfer my oatmeal stout tomorrow. So I also am trying to RNWHAHB (or 2)

 

[Seabee John]

Obviously I am not capable of "saving the world". I make enough to pay my bills and have a bit left over to try and enjoy life, my wife/family, homebrewing, etc. I cant financially help anyone but in my line of work I have had the opportunity to save a few lives, I work with women who are victims of domestic violence and try to get them and their children placement somewhere safe. I also have done the big brother program and just saw a kid who I arrested about 8 times when he was a JV, but didnt give up on get placed into Seton Hall law school. VERY satisfying.

So I do my best to help the "down trodden". I see you were a seabee and respect that you have done something for the USA as well, I am sure you continue to in your own way.

I also have no use for the people who cry that the "System" has wronged them and want folks hard earned tax dollars while they sit home and watch jerry springer and BS with their friends without trying to better their situation. There are plenty though that unlike you and I did not get a chance to better themselves and never had the guidance or opportunity without people outside their life circle that saw something in them and helped. They are the ones that concern me.

There are still vets from the Vietnam war living on the street, some of them did numerous tours there and came back mentally scarred, like many that are returning from the Middle East, and never got the help they needed. As I stated in my first reply, that is downright inexcusable in a country that is one of the so called "Superpowers".

I am trying to patiently wait for my SNPA to finish conditioning in the bottle, and need to transfer my oatmeal stout tomorrow. So I also am trying to RNWHAHB (or 2)

I get where you are coming from, I was just attempting to make the point that to many people just expect the overnment to take care of things. I like you have opted to do things to make life better. I don't make much, but I did spend the better part of a year volunteering in a mens homeless shelter here in Minneapolis. I would spend the night there and make sure everything was put up in the morning when they left. Funny thing is, that most of em had jobs, not great ones, but jobs none the less.

The idea of a Vet living on the street today, is mind boggling. There are so many private and public organizations out there with tons of grant money to help get these folks on track. Crazy thing is, from year to year, there is still a large pot of grant money left over. I said before, there are many bad choices made, (not all, but many) Many of these "Vets" just choose to live that way. If they are mentally messed up from the war, there is even more cash for them. All they have to do is ask. The VA may turn them away (any soldier knows the VA isn't a friend), but the non profits will at leased try to help them once.

It's funny you mention the kid going to law school. I was a Navy Recruiter for a couple of years after 911. Another recruiter picked up this 18 yr old kid on the side of the road with everything he owned in a garbage bag... She asked if he could stay w/ me until his next court date (he was going to jail on a DUI injury charge)... I got him a job w/ my room mate at the time (landscaping) 5 years later, he had 6 months left of law school. He now practices law defending Juvi cases. You are right. Someone sticks out a helping hand, a lot can be done. I just wish everyone who got help, did something with their lives.

 

[cubbies]

actually i do believe every state thats put medical marijuana to a vote has voted for it.....i know Montana passed it by a 2-1 margin............the feds keep saying pot has no good properties.........the general populace keeps calling BS on the feds everytime its put up to a vote.............

I was watching some documentary or something about medical marijuana and there was some guy on there who I thought put it best. He essentially said, if some scientist walked into the rainforest's and came out with a plant that would cure/ail all the things that marijuana does but without the stigma, s/he would be labeled a hero and would be given the highest of accolades.

I personally believe that to be true.

 

[cubbies]

Make the stuff legal and you eliminate the drug dealers.

Hard to argue with that logic.

I personally don't necessarily care if it is legalized (haven't smoked the stuff in many a year), but I do think that at the very least it should be decriminalized. An infraction should be treated like a traffic offense. You are ticketed and expected to pay a fine. That to me seems like enough regulation.