The skills gap in America.

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Jasper18

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Good Monday morning all.

First of all let me ask this: Who on here is a fellow skilled laborer? What do you guys do for work and how did you get your skills?

On to the gist of my post. I wanted to mention to people or ask for peoples opinion on the enormous skills gap. Jobs that don't require a 4 year degree but need special training (which most employers will give you) are in dire need of filling. Plumbers, electricians, people that maintain our infrastructure, carpenters, and welders just to name a few are jobs that are in need of filling, but there's no one to do them. I know that the average age for people in these industries are north of 50 these days and there's not enough young blood to fill the shoes. Anyone in the industries I mentioned have any stories to share in that regard?
It just seems to me that the jobs and industries that actually make our country run are vilified to a point where no one considers it a good way to make a living anymore. It just seems that we as a society really don't know the meaning of working hard anymore. Toilet backs up? Call someone. Roof leaks? Call someone. As it turns out: the people we call for all these things are decreasing in numbers. Soon an hour with a good plumber will cost more than an hour with a psychiatrist, if it doesn't already.
One other thought I had: People seem surprised that high unemployment can exist at the same time as a skilled labor shortage, but it should come as no surprise. We don't teach the things we need to teach anymore. Vocational Technology schools are disappearing and going fast. All high schools do anymore is teach you how to take tests and get ready to start on your 4 year degree, when we should really also focus on replenishing our workforce with interested people.

I don't know maybe I'm just ranting like a mad man here but it's a thing I believe.

On a personal level, aircraft mechanics such as myself are going to start retiring faster than we can be replaced. Boeing has predicted that in the next 15 years we will need 400,000 pilots and 600,000 technicians to keep aviation going, and don't even get me started on air traffic controllers. There is a desperate need for ATC's. If this shortage continues, flying will become more and more expensive for the consumer.

Anyways I will cut this rant off now.

Happy brewing.

Mark
 
Fellow AMT here, I agree, now the focus is everyone to go to school to get a degree. Most of those are worthless and not nearly worth the enormous debt it takes to get them. Not everyone HAS to go to college...

My A&P took me a year and 10k to get.... and now I make north of 85k regularly.
 
Fellow AMT here, I agree, now the focus is everyone to go to school to get a degree. Most of those are worthless and not nearly worth the enormous debt it takes to get them. Not everyone HAS to go to college...

My A&P took me a year and 10k to get.... and now I make north of 85k regularly.

Hey fellow wrencher. :) In Atlanta and making 85k.............Delta?
 
lol... not hard to guess that :)
there are OT hogs here who make 150+... but I dont unless they make me :)
 
lol... not hard to guess that :)
there are OT hogs here who make 150+... but I dont unless they make me :)

Lol ;) Yeah I choose family over work so I don't like to spend all day here. In any case im a lone site mechanic so I'm on my own schedule. How long have you been with Delta? I would love to get into Fed Ex. I do cargo now so I'd love to stay with it.


In any case I recently actually sent an email to my old High School's Superintendent to ask what the school is doing other than pushing 4 year colleges. Waiting for the answer. If I lived closer it would be nice to go and speak to some students.
 
23+ years, came here from Wyo when I was 21 or 22 I think. I worked primarily in the Fuel Component Shop, OH and Test of various controls pumps etc, mostly 757 Main engine controls.
I hate the south... I cant wait to leave...

I wonder do they even teach shop anymore??? I dont recall seeing it in my sons school... a whole lot of younger folks, 20s, cant identify I wrench let anyone what to do with it.
 
The college bubble is starting to burst. The irony is people are getting 4 year degrees in the humanities and social sciences and there are no jobs there, unless you want to go further in debt for law school, and even that is not a sure thing. Still, I think there could be a case for pilots and engineers with 4 year degrees. The problem is that college is so expensive, nobody wants to pay for professional training on top of a college education.
 
There IS a real need to STEM jobs... but everyone avoids those because of the crappy school systems they were never prepared for them.

But so many of these degrees are just worthless...
 
I'm an engineer with a MBA also. I suspect most of my children (I have four) will end up going the Vo Tec route. When it was $12K-17K a year for 5 years for a EE degree that started at about $58K, it wasn't hard to justify. The same college now is $55K a year and at best $72K or so is starting for an engineer. It doesn't make a lot of sense then it's at least 4 years of 100% of your gross salary to pay it all back.. or in reality 10+ years. When you could do it in 2-3 .. yeah.. no biggie.

We are definitely in a bubble with college now. It's kinda of sad, as people like me are only okay mechanics physically, but are pretty decent designers. I am probably personally better suited for the design work. Having said that, I'm far more willing (and want) to get my hands dirty than 90% of my engineering peers. And the younger ones are less willing...
 
There is definitely a disconnect in the school system and in parent's thinking. I do not work in the trades I am a hypnotherapist. My spouse is a vocational counselor. Parents of kids with significant learning disabilities are pushing their kids into college, and many of them struggle and fail, and parents of kids without challenges are pressured to go to college as well even if they like working with their hands. Technical school should not just be for the "problem kids" as it often is in high school. In the meantime, many people working in the trades are making a better living than many people with Masters degrees, I'm just talking about income, add in repayment of student loans and it's even more dismal. And that trend will continue, as long as there is a shortage of people to do the skilled work.
 
The college bubble is starting to burst. The irony is people are getting 4 year degrees in the humanities and social sciences and there are no jobs there, unless you want to go further in debt for law school, and even that is not a sure thing. Still, I think there could be a case for pilots and engineers with 4 year degrees. The problem is that college is so expensive, nobody wants to pay for professional training on top of a college education.

4 year degrees are almost useless for aviation. While it IS nice for a pilot to have an aeronautical engineering degree so they can actually tell me what the he** is wrong with the plane (you'd be surprised how little pilots actually know about planes), it's certainly not needed to be a good pilot and fly safely. With us technicians, the education we receive in schools prior to starting work is for the sole purpose of passing the aptitude tests that allow us to get our federally issued mechanics license. Those are not easy tests. The other 99% of knowledge comes from pure, unadulterated OJT. That's why years of experience are so valuable in this industry. I actually earned an Associates degree from mechanic school, but honestly I think I threw it away or lost it. Not sure whatever happened to it. Why? Because not a single person has ever cared to ask me about my education. It just doesn't matter. It's your experience on the job that they look for.
 
totally agree... 99% of all i learned i learned here. I certainly never even touch a Fuel Control in school... just get the License and get on with it!

4 year degrees are almost useless for aviation. While it IS nice for a pilot to have an aeronautical engineering degree so they can actually tell me what the he** is wrong with the plane (you'd be surprised how little pilots actually know about planes), it's certainly not needed to be a good pilot and fly safely. With us technicians, the education we receive in schools prior to starting work is for the sole purpose of passing the aptitude tests that allow us to get our federally issued mechanics license. Those are not easy tests. The other 99% of knowledge comes from pure, unadulterated OJT. That's why years of experience are so valuable in this industry. I actually earned an Associates degree from mechanic school, but honestly I think I threw it away or lost it. Not sure whatever happened to it. Why? Because not a single person has ever cared to ask me about my education. It just doesn't matter. It's your experience on the job that they look for.
 
Unions are still very strong in Chicago, so there's still many skilled labor around, and the youth movement is in full swing... at least from what I see in my union.


The problems I hear about are in the white collar jobs. Under staffing and salary cuts, and no improvements are coming anytime soon... yet business's profits are soaring.
 
This has been a long standing issue which has gotten much much worse as our schools and education centers have for decades now pushed Higher Learning above Skilled Labor, and more so they have given Skilled Labor a negative connotation now. "Get a degree or you will have to do **** labor for the rest of your life." From what I understand it has gotten so bad that we now have to import skilled labor from outsourced places like India and the like.

We need a HUGE push for Skilled Labor workers, free schooling to get them trained and to stop trying to make it seem like Skilled Labor is somehow less of a job than like what I do, IT. I hoped that guys like Mike Rowe trying to bring the issue up would have gotten more attention, but really I think it's the "they are beneath us" bull**** that our schools keep spewing that is killing us.
 
Sorry. I digressed from the topic at hand.

We all agree and see the same outlook for our childrens future. We need to talk about what we can actually do. I personally will get in contact and stay in contact with my high school and hope to at least let them know about STEM (should be STEAM to include Art) and TEDed programs. Looking back on my time at that school I felt I was completely deprived of a decent education and things I could have actually used.
 
This has been a long standing issue which has gotten much much worse as our schools and education centers have for decades now pushed Higher Learning above Skilled Labor, and more so they have given Skilled Labor a negative connotation now. "Get a degree or you will have to do **** labor for the rest of your life." From what I understand it has gotten so bad that we now have to import skilled labor from outsourced places like India and the like.

We need a HUGE push for Skilled Labor workers, free schooling to get them trained and to stop trying to make it seem like Skilled Labor is somehow less of a job than like what I do, IT. I hoped that guys like Mike Rowe trying to bring the issue up would have gotten more attention, but really I think it's the "they are beneath us" bull**** that our schools keep spewing that is killing us.
He is the exact person I have been listening to for a while now and honestly, Mike Rowe 2016. A leader for our tomorrow. I'd vote for the man in a heartbeat no question.
 
I learned carpentry at a young age. Started around the time I was 13, had a miter saw by 14 years old, and was very skilled before I could drive a car by myself. Trim carpentry was my favorite, doing base and window trim, as well as crown molding (talk about a skill). I also learned how to install kitchens, which doing it the right way is a skill in itself - many don't realize this, but that's partially because they don't know what "the right way" is.

Aside from pouring a foundation, I have built entire houses, and had done so before I was 17. Again, I was really, really good. I had a gig with the best builder in our area to do the trim and kitchen work for him on complex and very large houses.

But I went to college.

Why? I had plans to go for a few years, get the paper degree for backup, then go out and design, build, and construct homes. The way it timed for me, the housing bubble burst right when I was about to graduate and I quickly learned I had to change plans and I ultimately decided I wanted a "9-5" type office job with 401k and insurance and what not.

Again, why? Because in the industry and area I was skilled, it meant finding my own work and living job to job. I watched friends and family do this, and I didn't want to do it myself.

Where I live, the skilled labors are alive and well and there is no shortage of them. Not everyone is interested in a college degree (despite what the politicians say and push) and they instead turn to the trades. Fantastic for them; fantastic for us.

Sometimes I wonder if the "shortage of tradesmen" assertion is true or if it's simply an assumed byproduct of all the politicians urging kids to get degrees.

I wanted to write this all out because I've been on both sides and seen it both ways. If you made it this far...thank you :)
 
I think being surrounded by Unions in Chicago has led to a sort of biased view for you. A lot of people head up there as skilled laborers, causing a surplus. Certainly not true for the rest of America. There is a real shortage in other areas of the country. Anecdotes from Mike Rowe point to several. One was a power plant that was delayed due to a shortage of welders in.............. I believe Alabama or somewhere down south, and also of a Caterpillar dealer have 20 or so open spots for mechanics that can't be filled. Pay was really decent for those jobs. It really is a case of each area of the country is different, but looking at the country as a whole, we're falling short. Last summer there were 5.8 Million open job positions that weren't filled. At the same time there were a little over 7 million people unemployed. Seems like almost everyone could have had a job if they were trained for it. I know there are a lot of other factors in that too but there still could have been much less unemployment were it not for the skills gap.
 
Here is an example of what I mean when i say base education is lacking..

I run large test stands with large pumps and motors to control and simulate fuel flows and pressures.
say 1300 PSI and 18000 LBS of flow...

One of the Young Engineers they keep sending down to "analyse" whatever problems the engines are having, So I run the control and explain to him what the issue is with it, and what I believe the solution is.

The first question he asked me "Do you use water to run the stands?" I seriously thought he was joking... I mean this kid went through 4 years of engineering school and works as a trainee Eng. Water?? really?? thats your guess? so I just said no, we use test fluid....
 
Last summer there were 5.8 Million open job positions that weren't filled. At the same time there were a little over 7 million people unemployed. Seems like almost everyone could have had a job if they were trained for it. I know there are a lot of other factors in that too but there still could have been much less unemployment were it not for the skills gap.

"Seems like almost everyone could have had a job if they"...wanted one. If unemployed and looking for a job, especially in areas where the skills are needed, just about anyone can get one of those jobs. Why aren't the unemployed taking these positions? Well, that could be a debate forever. But if people would like to learn the jobs, the jobs are there for them to learn.

Maybe people just don't want to work hard. Let's be honest, trades can be very tough work, many times exposed to the elements.
 
Yeah laziness is a pandemic in the US. Not gonna argue that one. It does get hairy out here on the flight line, and some of it is back breaking work (moving about batteries and tires and cowlings). It's not for everyone, but someone's gotta do it lol. Anyway the school system is still failing miserably. Colleges are in it for the money even though they all say not-for-profit. It's a crying shame.
 
I grew up doing any job I could get. Dishwasher, janitor, fast food, retail slowly climbing up the ladder. Then went into the military where they trained me to work on electronics and electricity. Not a designer, but I can fix most anything.

After the military I did get my 4 yr degree and work in IT. I am a reasonable mechanic on older vehicles (self taught with my Chiltons books) and taught myself basic carpentry to build nightstands, bookcases and the like. I like to work with my hands and get dirty.

My boy is 11 and I am teaching him what I know about plumbing, carpentry and engines so that he has basic skills when he is older and needs to start looking for work and so he can appreciate quality when he sees it.

I have a lot of respect for skilled craftsman. I will agree that there is a lack of skilled kids coming out of High School. I've seen my nephews come out of high school with few skills, though not sure if it was the school or my nephew.
 
lol... not hard to guess that :)
there are OT hogs here who make 150+... but I dont unless they make me :)

Hey man one of your planes leaving from YOUR station lost a cowling over TN. ;) lol was that your handy work? haha
 
Hey man, there's at least 2 engines :)
not sure if you saw my previous post about the water... mechanics aint the only ones to worry about :)

Yeah if you screw up that's an altogether different news headline lol. Never mind. :D
 
Lol oh those engineers. Yes water in a piece of aircraft equipment. The only place we want water is in bottles chilled with ice.
 
I mean really. ..water??? It's a fuel control! !!...under pressure no less.
 
The college bubble is starting to burst. The irony is people are getting 4 year degrees in the humanities and social sciences and there are no jobs there, unless you want to go further in debt for law school, and even that is not a sure thing. Still, I think there could be a case for pilots and engineers with 4 year degrees. The problem is that college is so expensive, nobody wants to pay for professional training on top of a college education.

I've several friends that wasted four years getting a worthless degree, and are still stuck working low-wage jobs they could have gotten without the degree.

I wish high-schools would stop preaching the whole "everyone needs a college degree! It doesn't matter what, just choose one that interests you" BS.

-Not everyone needs to go to (or is even cut out for) college education.
-Not all college degrees are worth what they cost.
-Getting a degree doesn't guarantee a job. Some fields are woefully overcrowded.
-There are a lot of great career paths out there that don't need a 4 year university education.

I definitely feel that schools should emphasize vocational training and technical skills as viable options, and not push college on everyone.

Another buddy of mine burned out of college after 3 years. Puttered around a while, and then got some training as a generator tech. Now he makes damned good money selling and maintaining generators in Houston.
 
Im a vested union Laborer. With that said, I no longer work in commercial construction. I have been a CT Technologist for the past 6.5 years. I agree completely that college is pushed too much, and the focus on skilled labor is undercut. I remember speaking with one of the presidents of Purdue University one day, and his message that came across to me was that EVERYONE needs a college degree. I politely disagreed with him and stated how my friend whom is a Carpenter with no degree makes more money than I do. How I was able to never take a loan out for college and pay as I went (I was a laborer from 18-25) due to working in skilled trade.

I have a lot of friends with degrees do not work in those fields due to no jobs, decreased pay, etc. A handful of us actually work in the field in which our degrees are in. Then I have friends working in skilled labor roles making great money without the debt.

College is great and all, but not a necessity. I tell younger people all the time who are unsure of what they want to do, or want to major in something completely useless, to check out being an electrician or a pipe fitter. I will preface that statement with "is your goal after school to do something you are passionate about and money is irrelevant, or is financial security your numero uno?". Most people choose the latter.

Im an in the process now of moving to an Applications position which pays damn well, and shockingly, the took away the requirement of a B.S.
 
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