The Once and Future Konical

[terrazza]

This might end up being a lengthy one to read, so I warned you with the title. Yes, yes, yes, I just like yourself am thinking of a conical. Not that B3 or Blichmann stuff, but something I can conceptualize and build upon using those already well designed B3 and Blichmann plans to give to my welder! - because also like all of you--well most of you--my welding skills suck - sheeet I never picked up a welding torch ever in my life.

My goal, simple and big, a jacketed conical (for glycol), with a rotating rack, pressurizable to 15 psi employeeing a gasketless style seal similar to as seen on gasketless style All American Pressure canners. Can it be done? Probably only with everyone's help. So let's lay some ideas down and let's get started.

 

[heinz57]

DIY Conical Fermenter

This should get you started.

 

[Yuri_Rage]

First, you need an almost limitless budget. By the time you design it, buy all the parts, and contract a welder, you'd be better off buying the bling.

Not trying to be too negative here...just realistic.

 

[terrazza]

But welder work's for beer, so does the guy that's spinning my stainless... No threads in contact with beer. I like brewpastor's design. except I want a bolt down lid like you see on pressure canners. And then add a rotating rack , and make it pressurizable.

 

[terrazza]

Well, the guy who spins metals can't make anything this size. Now I'm back to looking at the toledos. For a pressurizable lid assembly, does anyone think that a lid as seen on these pressure canners can be machine into the design? All American Pressure Canner

These canners don't use any type of gasket and seal to hold 15-20 psi on the canners. Does anyone have a canner like this that could snap a few pics of so i can see how the lid makes a seal with the canner? I think it would be necessary to reinforce the collar of the fermenter and lid and have both machined perfectly smooth and flat to make a mechanical seal.... or should their be a tongue and groove in it to make a seal? Any suggestions?

Gracias.

 

[billtzk]

I have the model 930 canner, but I can't post a pic at the moment. These canners are made of thick and heavy aluminum, not SS. The lid has a roughly 1/2 or 3/4 inch wide machined beveled inner lip that has a slight inward slope to it. It mates up with a similarly sloped surface at the top inside edge of the canner. There is no gasket and no tongue and groove. Just the smooth machined mating surfaces. You wipe a little lubricant (oil, vaseline, petrol gel, etc) around the inner edge on the canner, then put the lid on, turn it to lock under the outside lugs, then screw down the black Delrin knobs all around.

It's a really great canner, by the way.

 

[Pete08]

Check your local scrap yard. There is one nearby that has a stainless bottle that resembles a carboy, but looks to be about 7-8 gallons. A worker there told me it is a hospital oxygen container. He pulled it out of the processing line to use for a still. I told him to keep an eye open for me; he then offered it to me for the price the yard would get for scrap stainless. I didn't look at it that close to see if it would work, but it keeps popping into my mind. I just can't bring home any more brewing equipment for awhile.

 

[RonInPHX]

I built a jacketed conical out of a hopper with part of an old pool filter welded around it. It ended up being a lot of welding but I am happy with the results. It does hold pressure but I think I would have to put a stiffer ring of stainless around the lid to hold 15psi. The stainless clamps would do the job but they would bend the lid I think if I clamped it down too hard.

 

[John Beere]

I believe the next edition of Zymurgy will have BrewPastor's DIY Jacketed Conicals. Here is a thread about it: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/temperature-controlled-fermentation-81596/

 

[BrewBeemer]

Ron; that looks great as a chilled conical but got me thinkin, looks like app 24" diameter near the lockdown clamps. Call it 24" diameter near the clamps your at 452 sq / in surface area (give or take just looking from the picture). Adding 15 psi pressure your at 6,785 pounds of force or pressure pulling against what looks like five 3/16" rod with cam nut adjustments on 90* bents for the rod straps. My fear would be those straps would become inverted "V" shaped pulling those two stainless hook straps together and that lid coming off with a big boom or safer yet the lid just gets wavy between the straps and releases the pressure. Think about the pressures if by accident you went above the 15 psi or regulated pressure slowly creeping up unnoticed? If it creeped up just to 17 psi each strap clamp would be holding 1,538 pounds of pressure. I see a problem or condition I that would make not me feel safe by that conical. Low pressures working on a large area add up fast. Take the opposite condition dealing with a vacuum i've seen a stainless 6,500 gallon stainless big rig vinegar tank get pumped off without the vacuum break valve opened? I have and the big round tank
collaspsed like a crushed paper bag and was supported by ribs and a frame.
On your conical adding a band lets say 3" wide by 3/16" 7 gauge minimum (I would go to 1/4" if it were my project) welded one to the cover and one on the conical body perimeter. This would prevent the top from becoming a wavy mess plus some strong heavy material to secure your clamps onto. Add 1 3/8" x 1/4" thick square tabs at 8 locations flat but sticking out with triangle gussets on each side of each tab. This with screw down knobs and bolts. Weld 1/8" thick square stock that fits into the tab and gusset pockets to the head of the bolts with a rosette weld to prevent the bolts from turning. Use knobs like the manufactured pressure pots posted above. One must remember the pressures created when working on large diameter cylinders. Sorry done ranting or adding my thoughts, not to be negative here.

 

[terrazza]

Ron, that's a NICE rig! I am taking notes after seeing that, so if you want to post a few more detailed pics, please do!

 

[DiveBrew]

I like the tri-clamp viewing port. I was planning on machining a bolt down port but your way is much easier, and useful if you wanted to dry hop. Thanks

 

[terrazza]

I really like the idea of using those tri clamp ferrules, as I can see some great mods a welder can add to an end cap-like thermowell, oxygen stone, and co2 fitting and I like the viewing window!!! I might want to add a live VideoCam window too. Maybe a neon ball for the fermentation too! What are the pressure ratings on a tri clamp fitting? I'm also trying to figure out the size of a tri clamp with that corresponds to which ferrule and cap. So those look like 4" ferrules on top of your lid. What size clamp corresponds to that? and what size cap corresponds to that?

 

[DiveBrew]

4" sanitary uses a 4" clamp and cap. the 2 multi-sizes are 1/2"-3/4" (mini Tri-Clamp, and harder to come by) which uses the same clamp because they share the same OD clamp face, and 1"-1 1/2" which also are interchangeable . The only difference is the actual pipe diameter is different but the clamping face diameters are the same.

As far as pricing the 4" sanitary parts like ferrules, caps and clamps are closely priced to the smaller sizes, it's when you jump to 6" that the prices nearly double. So a 4" port it is.

The one thing I don't understand is why Blichmann sells their Fermenator with cheesy no-weld stuff and then convert 3-piece NPT clamps to sanitary when break-down valves are available with sanitary ends. It all adds up to extra weight and length torquing the no-weld seals just asking for leaks, good 'oll marketing I guess.

 

[terrazza]

Yikes, McMaster Carr ain't cheap! I am trying to source 6 stainless steel swing bolts - you know the kind with a hole in the head and one with a shaft. Seriously now. I'm looking for a cheaper version of this that you can find at McMaster 3796K21 . Thanks!

 

[terrazza]

Just CYBER-BREWING... I am using the 14.7 gallon hopper from Toledo. On top of the cone, I am welding 3/16" support all the way around. On top of that will be a gasket, and then the lid base built of the same 3/16" support. I am welding 6 mounts for 6 swing bolts that will swing up over the lid and allow a nut to clamp down pressure between the cone and the lid. Simple enough design, as seen on pressure cookers. I also want to extend the height of the lid by 10" to make larger batches.

Here you can see the jacket. It's not all the way down the cone, but probably doesn't need to be. A plus, I also want to add a heater on the bottom part of the cone.

This shows my rotating racking arm. I picked up one from St Pats, but it's 1" diameter. Is this too large a pipe for such a small fermenter?

 

[terrazza]

And this is the extended lid, with 2 four inch ferrules on top for accessories.

Easy Dry Hopping, and window for viewing... More pics when this gets roling over the next few weeks... Waiting for the delivery of the conical.

 

[EvilTOJ]

Sorry, this is the first thing that came to mind....






Greetings Program!

 

[Anthony_Lopez]

Hahahahaha

 

[terrazza]

dude, don't make fun of my intergalactic starship.

 

[terrazza]

Toledo cone has arrived- waiting on the fittings from St pats

 

[terrazza]

So by using a 1" diameter dip tube in such a small conical, does anyone think I will have problems with the siphon effect when transferring the last bit of beer into kegs?

 

[terrazza]

Screw it, 1" it is. I'm planning on pressurizing this anyway up to 15-20 psi to force carb it when it's done. Might as well use the pressure to push it into kegs. Got some cool stainless things in the mail today - drooling....

:rockin:

 

[jonp9576]

how much was the rotating racking arm?