The Air Ain't Free

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Gytaryst

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2017
Messages
314
Reaction score
100
Location
Phoenix
I've been using the drill attachment (below) to aerate. Sometimes at the end of a particularly long and difficult brew day when I'm feeling lazy, I'll just shake the crap out of the carboy and call it good.

GJk8LPz.jpg


I was looking for a better way and stumbled upon these two options. This one is $12 on Amazon and this "Ultimate Kit" is $210.

The description for the "Ultimate Kit" begins with: "This kit is for the ‘serious homebrewer’" . . . It's possible my definition of "serious" isn't the same as theirs I suppose. That said -

I was really just looking for some feedback on what the advantages, (real or imagined), are between one method and another?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
that "ultimate kit" has a pretty big o2 tank. IMO, you can get smaller ones from home depot that will work for quite a few batches for $11... then just buy the regulator and either a diffusion stone or wand (both pretty cheap). You would have the "ultimate" setup for less than $100 easily.

IMO, i dont think that one from amazon will do any better than just shaking the crap out of your fermenter before pitching.

Check out this exbeeriment from brulosophy: http://brulosophy.com/2015/10/19/wort-aeration-pt-3-nothing-vs-pure-oxygen-exbeeriment-results/
 
Read this thread:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=414616

The $12 kit is just a different way to do the same thing you're already doing, which is to get regular air into the wort. With the drill and wand, the aquarium pump or just shaking the carboy, you're effectively doing the same thing with different tools.

The Ultimate kit is similar to what I use, maybe even exactly the same, but I purchased it from a different vendor. It has the type of regulator that is described in the thread above. With that, you're injecting o2, not just air.

So, with your aeration wand and drill, shaking the carboy, or using the aquarium pump, you should be able to get into the neighborhood of 8ppm (with enough shaking, drilling, or pump time), but with the o2 tank and stone, you can get much higher.

More o2 is better for the yeast. How much better? How much of a difference does it make in your finished beer? I don't know. I know that my beer is better now that it was before i started using the o2 and stone, but I've changed plenty of other things in my system in that time as well.
 
Makes sense. Thanks. I'll read the links you guys provided and see what works for me. Without really looking to deep though, just on the surface I can't see sinking $210 into this one aspect of the process. Maybe I'll change my mind after looking a little deeper.
 
Yes. Probably the set up I'll go with, although I still think $48 is a little steep on this too. The regulator sells for $18 to $19 and the stones are $8 to $12.

The Brulosophy exbeerement was interesting. It was kind of a scientific confirmation of what my unscientific gut feelings were already. If zero aeration produces results that close to pure O2, then shaking or whipping it up with a paint stirrer has to put it even closer.

The fact that there is a difference, (albeit barely a difference), is a good enough reason for me to think about using pure O2. I wouldn't spend $200+; I don't think the negligible difference warrants that kind of an investment.
 
Yes. Probably the set up I'll go with, although I still think $48 is a little steep on this too. The regulator sells for $18 to $19 and the stones are $8 to $12.

The Brulosophy exbeerement was interesting. It was kind of a scientific confirmation of what my unscientific gut feelings were already. If zero aeration produces results that close to pure O2, then shaking or whipping it up with a paint stirrer has to put it even closer.

The fact that there is a difference, (albeit barely a difference), is a good enough reason for me to think about using pure O2. I wouldn't spend $200+; I don't think the negligible difference warrants that kind of an investment.

I have the cheap regulator using the O2 tanks you can get from the home store, and a diffusion stone on a stainless tube. Works great.

Is there a difference? I'm a fan of the brulosophy stuff, if for no other reason than people are trying to figure stuff out in a relatively controlled manner.

And yet--one exbeeriment is only that. One. Using a particular recipe, particular yeast, particular process. Maybe it would be different for something different.

I personally believe that oxygenating can't hurt, and I believe it helps the yeast get going, which makes for a fermentation less subject to nasties taking over. If the yeast is healthy and aggressively fermeting, they'll outcompete any nasty stuff that has inadvertantly fallen in.

That expensive equipment? No reason for it, IMO.
 
Careful with the "expensive" vs "cheap". The "cheap" cylinders are 1.1cf and non-refillable, the "expensive" cylinder is 20cf and refillable. So, you need 18 of the non-refillable cylinders to give you the o2 that you get in your first fill of the reusable one.

So, overall, while they're only $10 each, the disposable tanks are actually much more expensive for the volume of o2 that you get. A 20cf fill for me was something like $20 IIRC, and as I understand it, should last hundreds of batches.
 
The small disposable O2 tanks can last 10-20 brews or more as long as you remove the "regulator" from the tank after each use. They are notorious slow leakers.

The small disposable tanks can deliver 1.1 cf which is 31 liters. Typical 5 gallon batches of 1.060 need a 1 minute dose at a flow rate of 1 liter per minute to obtain around 8-9 ppm.

However, with those small tanks and "regulators, it's difficult to control or gauge the flow rate, so use an educated guess, although you can measure it under an inverted beaker. A real flow meter would be much more precise and predictable.

Here are some estimated dosages I found on the web:
Code:
30 seconds pure O2          5.12 ppm
60 seconds pure O2          9.20 ppm
120 seconds pure O2        14.08 ppm

From WYeast Labs:
Code:
| Method                    | DO ppm   | Time          |
|---------------------------|----------|---------------|
| Siphon Spray              | 4 ppm    | 0 sec.        |
| Splashing & Shaking       | 8 ppm    | 40 sec.       |
| Aquarium Pump w/ stone    | 8 ppm    | 5 min         |
| Pure Oxygen w/ stone      | 0-26ppm  | 60 sec (12ppm)|

Again you see some deviation between the 2 tables. The cooler the wort the easier the O2 dissolves, and holds on to it. Use a 0.5 micron stone and move it around a bit on the bottom.

Any rippling you see on the surface is O2 that didn't make it into the wort, so keep that in mind. Depending on the gravity I oxygenate for 3 or 4 minutes at 0.25 l/m. I must get around 9 or 12 ppm that way. That 40cf tank will last me many, many years, a good investment if you brew a lot or larger batches.

I built an O2 wand from a spare keg diptube and a few pieces of vinyl hose that fit tightly into each other, forming good adapters. I saw one at the brew store for $30, on sale. The wand is 3/16" OD and did look nice. But I was uncertain if the stone could be removed, it didn't look like it.
 
One more thing... shaking carboys maybe efficient, but can be dangerous (see our compendium). I can hardly believe I put them in my lap to give them a good shaking... After becoming aware of the dangers I've moved to plastic buckets, only using carboys for long term bulk aging sours.
 
FWIW, I don't ever have attenuation problems, and I always just whisk the heck out of my cooled wort (while still in the kettle) for about 20 seconds. I then pour from as high as I can hold the kettle into the fermentor, letting it splash all it wants, and then pitch yeast.

My friend pours his cooled wort into a sanitized bottling bucket, then sets it on the counter. He puts his fermentor on the floor, and opens the spigot.

I heard the main dude on the Brulosophy podcast say that he never does more than pour from the kettle into a funnel in his PET carboy, and he doesn't have attenuation problems either.

One more thing... shaking carboys maybe efficient, but can be dangerous (see our compendium).

Hooolyyyy $#!tballs. Okay then! I'm getting rid of my glass. Holy cow. I am extremely paranoid now.

There are 5-gallon PETs on eBay for $32 w/ free shipping. I could probably sell my glass for $30/each on craigslist. I think $6 total to "upgrade" all my vessels isn't too much to ask. I play guitar and video games, and I'm a pretty fast typist. I do not want to lose feeling or functionality of my digits. :(
 
Hooolyyyy $#!tballs. Okay then! I'm getting rid of my glass. Holy cow. I am extremely paranoid now.

There are 5-gallon PETs on eBay for $32 w/ free shipping. I could probably sell my glass for $30/each on craigslist. I think $6 total to "upgrade" all my vessels isn't too much to ask. I play guitar and video games, and I'm a pretty fast typist. I do not want to lose feeling or functionality of my digits. :(

Yeah, that was an eyeopener for me too. Many of the carboy failures have to do with inferior manufacturing and QC, improper handling (hard floors, thermal shock, etc.), or both.

The older Mexican glass carboys were much better made, yet not indestructible. The Italian ones are generally better than those from the orient, but who knows of their real origin. Look at what's commonly being sold as "honey" outside of your local apiary. Strange to know that once a product from China passes through India is not a Chinese product anymore. :tank:

For 5 or better yet, 5.5 gallon batches (5.5 gallon in the fermentor, losing 2 quarts to trub and yeast cake) a larger fermentor than 5 gallons is needed. 6 gallons minimum I'd say. If 5 gallon volume were enough I'd ferment in corny kegs.

Beer buckets are 6.5 gallons at a cost of less than $15-17 including a grommeted lid. They come with a decent handle.

Since there's little need for secondaries, unless you want to bulk age beyond 4-6 weeks, so you can add your dry hops, fruit, or whatever right to the bucket. I've drilled a second (1") hole in some of my lids as an access port. They'll take a regular bung. If I need a secondary, for example to age with some oak chips, I rack to a corny keg, and keep everything nicely under CO2. If you use kegs for secondaries you won't even need CO2, although it does come in handy.
 
Careful with the "expensive" vs "cheap". The "cheap" cylinders are 1.1cf and non-refillable, the "expensive" cylinder is 20cf and refillable. So, you need 18 of the non-refillable cylinders to give you the o2 that you get in your first fill of the reusable one.
Great point. I'm embarrassed to say that the idea of refillable vs non-refillable didn't even cross my mind. I still think $210 is "expensive", not only for the equipment - but just in general considering. That said - "expensive" is in the wallet of the beholder.
... And yet--one exbeeriment is only that. One. Using a particular recipe, particular yeast, particular process. Maybe it would be different for something different.
If I'm not mistaken this was actually a follow up exbeeremnt to another similar exbeerement - not to mention he cites at least one article on the subject. It seems like there's enough evidence to conclude that pure oxygen does help, but it also seems like the difference is almost indistinguishable, (at least in this exbeerement it was statistically indistinguishable). Like I said, I'll probably start using pure O2 eventually just because. I can guarantee I'm not going to spend $210 to do it though - but to each his own.
One more thing... shaking carboys maybe efficient, but can be dangerous (see our compendium). I can hardly believe I put them in my lap to give them a good shaking... After becoming aware of the dangers I've moved to plastic buckets, only using carboys for long term bulk aging sours.
I've read some disturbing horror stories, and based on those I retired my glass carboys quite awhile ago. I was using plastic buckets and then bought the 7 gallon Fermonster a few months ago. I like it OK. The first time I used it I just cranked the lid on and let it go. When I went to check it a few weeks later it took a lot of work, and sloshing the thing around, to finally get the lid off. I bought some of this and haven't had any issues since. The last time I cleaned it out I was happy to learn that I can get my arm all the way down inside to the bottom to clean it. However I got a little panicky when I realized I couldn't get my arm out and thought I was going to have to get my wife to help me cut the thing off. Lesson learned.

I've had my glass carboys up for sale on craigslist, but after seeing those pics I can't in good conscience sell something like that to someone else.
 
If I'm not mistaken this was actually a follow up exbeeremnt to another similar exbeerement - not to mention he cites at least one article on the subject. It seems like there's enough evidence to conclude that pure oxygen does help, but it also seems like the difference is almost indistinguishable, (at least in this exbeerement it was statistically indistinguishable). Like I said, I'll probably start using pure O2 eventually just because. I can guarantee I'm not going to spend $210 to do it though - but to each his own.

I'm not one to bash the Brulosophy approach haphazardly because, well, at least they're trying to determine where things matter and where they don't matter. And the methods used are, IMO, really pretty good.

But--still there are issues. One of the biggest ones is that the panels that do the tasting are representative of....what? The general beer-drinking community? Judges? Only panels of beer drinkers in that location? Are there regional trends in taste? I don't know what those panels represent, so I take this all with a grain of salt.

So the fact that in this panel, a less-than-statistically-significant number of members were able to pick the odd one out, might mean simply that it's a weird panel. It's not a random sample.

Further, it's possible that whatever flavor differences that result are masked by other elements. I intensely dislike the flavor of Belgians; not sure that any difference in oxygenation would get past that for me.

Or what if it doesn't matter much for small beers but it matters more for big beers? Or are some types of yeast more...appreciative of the oxygen than others, and thus perform better?

**************

For me, the best Brulosophy exbeeriments are those which address process; the least informative are those that address ingredients.

My favorite one, so much so that I use it in my classes on research methodology, compared 2-row barley to Maris Otter. The results *were* statistically significant, but when asked to pick which they preferred, the panelists were split exactly 50-50 as to their preference.

I ask my students, "What actionable intelligence do you get from this result?" The answer is, really, that there is none. If I were a commercial brewer and there was a big difference in preference, it might tell me which type of brew my customers would prefer, if I could trust that the panel was representative of my customers.

But in this case, it tells me that people like what they like, and it tells me nothing about how I should consider changing my own brewing. BTW, I'm a Maris Otter fan.

**************

But the process exbeeriments are, IMO, more helpful. I read on brulosophy about dumping all the trub into the fermenter instead of straining it out. I decided to decide for myself, and that's what I do--it all goes in. None of this whirlpool stuff for me.

I can't tell that it makes any difference at all to include or not include the trub, and thus I avoid a somewhat messy and more time-consuming element of the process. It might be different for you.

The lesson I took from this is I have to try it and judge for myself.

**************

All that said, I think I've made good beer w/o oxygenating. And yet, the books say to do it, the Yeast book by Chris White and Jamil Zainasheff says that just shaking or aggressively mixing with air does not add enough for optimal yeast health and vitality.

But I'm after outstanding beer, so I oxygenate. I recently taught a friend how to brew, and after about 5 batches, he's made some really very nice beer. He doesn't oxygenate. He did have one beer that was less than what he normally can do; he forgot to shake the fermenter. But given his other results, in the recipes and with the processes he uses, it's not a make-or-break process element.

In the end, you have to please yourself; I agree with you, spending $210 for a system to add oxygen seems pretty pricey to me. I use the small bottle system, and I'm on my second bottle; probably about 12 batches per bottle.

**********

Might as well make this longer. :) One of my mantras as I've followed the path of learning to brew is to try to do something better every time. Continuous quality improvement, IOW. Adding oxygen to the wort was one of those efforts.

And it's occurred to me that there may be a cumulative effect to best practices, such that by themselves, any particular process element might not produce hugely discernable results, but taken together, the best practices might, additively, produce a significantly better result. At least for now, I'm operating under that thesis.

The fact that you're engaged here suggests to me that you're doing similar things, i.e., trying to continually get better. It's not a bad approach. Brew on!
 
... One of my mantras as I've followed the path of learning to brew is to try to do something better every time. Continuous quality improvement, IOW. Adding oxygen to the wort was one of those efforts.

And it's occurred to me that there may be a cumulative effect to best practices, such that by themselves, any particular process element might not produce hugely discernable results, but taken together, the best practices might, additively, produce a significantly better result. At least for now, I'm operating under that thesis.

The fact that you're engaged here suggests to me that you're doing similar things, i.e., trying to continually get better. It's not a bad approach. Brew on!
I agree with almost everything you said... Belgians are my favorite style of beer.

My problem is that I was trying to do too many things better each time. After 2 1/2 years of brewing it occurred to me I've never brewed two batches the same. I've always added new equipment, tried new techniques, and never used the same recipe again. While I've had a lot of fun playing around, I don't have much data I can use.

Now that I have all the "playing around" outta my system I am now going to keep everything as consistent as possible for the next several brews. My Cereal Killer should be here Friday, and that's the last equipment I'm adding for awhile. I'm thinking about maybe even using the same recipe for the next 4 or 5 batches.

I'll probably continue to use the drill attachment aeration for now until I can find a relatively low cost way to add pure O2. I believe there are some slight advantages, and I'm all for doing everything and anything I can do to make better beer. If I had unlimited resources this would be a non-issue. Since I have a limited amount of money I can throw into this hobby at any one time, the cost of using pure O2 still seems out of proportion to the amount of improvements I may, (or may not), realize.
 
Quite anecdotal, but there was also an oxygenation exbeeriment on Basic Brewing Radio podcast.
http://hwcdn.libsyn.com/p/7/c/6/7c6...98575663&hwt=ef8dc104aacc7985d2eec2182c04ba24

The science was a little lacking, to put it politely, but they ranked beers that were oxygenated a few different ways.
This list is not ranked, just the numbers assigned to each batch:
  1. Poured from kettle to bucket with lots of splashing, double-pitched yeast
  2. Pure Oxygen stone, for double the recommended time
  3. Aquarium pump
  4. Drill attachment
  5. No aeration at all, with dry yeast
  6. Oxygen stone for recommended time
  7. Shaking the carboy
  8. No aeration at all, with liquid yeast

The majority of people's favorite was double-dosed pure oxygen. Second most common favorite was a shaken carboy. So, just shaking alone was some people's absolute favorite! Taste is subjective, so in my opinion, even though double oxygen was more people's favorite, I see zero reason to go with a more expensive method. There was a tie for third - pure oxygen vs. kettle-to-bucket pour with double yeast.
Again, all anecdotal, I get it, but it's interesting. Their only true take away is that no aeration at all is the only true mistake you could make.
They literally poured #5 and #8 down the drain, stating that they just tasted like uncarbonated wort.

I'm going to stick with my whisk. I used to work at an expensive restaurant, and although I preferred using a KitchenAide mixer, I was able to make solid whipped cream or butter when I needed to, just with a whisk. You can't make whipped cream out of cream unless you're getting a ton of oxygen in there, and I think that proves the worth of these cheap little low-tech devices. I've used nothing but whisks for oxygenation since I began brewing, and my prior work experience has really worked-up those muscles, so I can get a 6-inch frothy head on my wort in like 30 seconds. I've never had a problem with attenuation.
 
I got sick and tired waiting for Spike to release their new conical so I bought a 14 gallon HDPE conical, built a stand for it, got the cheap Craigslist refrigerator to put it in, mounted a thermowell, attached a 2" butterfly trub dump valve, added a valved blow off port and sealed the lid to get it airtight (pending test). I'm thinking the easiest aeration method would be to build a triclamp attachable T fitting with the aeration stone mounted in it. This would then be attached south of the trub dump valve and when opened, would allow the O2 to flow up through the entire fermenter batch. When done, close valve and remove the O2 "module" and a bit of wort that dribbles out... Sound reasonable? Eliminates the risk of a wand from the top, hosing or the open lid for the duration...

Oh, by the way, the whole deal cost me ~$250 with everything including the refrigerator. I'm glad I didn't spend >$600 with Spike.......
 
I agree with almost everything you said... Belgians are my favorite style of beer.

Well, there's no accounting for taste. :) I also don't care for Saisons, but at a brew day last month I had a couple short glasses of it, trying to see what about it was offputting to me. By the end of the second glass I had moved toward neutral on it. Who knows, if someone strapped me down and force-fed me Belgians for an extended period, perhaps I might develop a taste for it.

BTW, I've judged Belgians; I think I can do that pretty well, following some standards. I just don't care for what it is.

My problem is that I was trying to do too many things better each time. After 2 1/2 years of brewing it occurred to me I've never brewed two batches the same. I've always added new equipment, tried new techniques, and never used the same recipe again. While I've had a lot of fun playing around, I don't have much data I can use.

Do you take detailed notes about each brew? That's the only way I've been able to reproduce batches. Everything from the water composition and additions to mash temp to pH to hop AA to fermentation temp and schedule, finings, etc.

Now that I have all the "playing around" outta my system I am now going to keep everything as consistent as possible for the next several brews. My Cereal Killer should be here Friday, and that's the last equipment I'm adding for awhile. I'm thinking about maybe even using the same recipe for the next 4 or 5 batches.

If you don't have feeler gauges, one method some use to set the gap is to use a credit card as the thickness between the teeth of the rollers. That worked for me well. For BIAB, I had to go thinner yet, to .020.

I'll probably continue to use the drill attachment aeration for now until I can find a relatively low cost way to add pure O2. I believe there are some slight advantages, and I'm all for doing everything and anything I can do to make better beer. If I had unlimited resources this would be a non-issue. Since I have a limited amount of money I can throw into this hobby at any one time, the cost of using pure O2 still seems out of proportion to the amount of improvements I may, (or may not), realize.

I think the drill attachment is a clever way to do it. Just try to do something better every time, take good notes, and keep the process as steady as you can.

I've attached a photo of my recent brew to show what I record.

caveclonenotes.jpg
 
Quite anecdotal, but there was also an oxygenation exbeeriment on Basic Brewing Radio podcast.
http://hwcdn.libsyn.com/p/7/c/6/7c6...98575663&hwt=ef8dc104aacc7985d2eec2182c04ba24

The science was a little lacking, to put it politely, but they ranked beers that were oxygenated a few different ways.
This list is not ranked, just the numbers assigned to each batch:
  1. Poured from kettle to bucket with lots of splashing, double-pitched yeast
  2. Pure Oxygen stone, for double the recommended time
  3. Aquarium pump
  4. Drill attachment
  5. No aeration at all, with dry yeast
  6. Oxygen stone for recommended time
  7. Shaking the carboy
  8. No aeration at all, with liquid yeast

The majority of people's favorite was double-dosed pure oxygen. Second most common favorite was a shaken carboy. So, just shaking alone was some people's absolute favorite! Taste is subjective, so in my opinion, even though double oxygen was more people's favorite, I see zero reason to go with a more expensive method. There was a tie for third - pure oxygen vs. kettle-to-bucket pour with double yeast.

I didn't listen to the podcast; I was dissuaded when I saw it was something like 53 minutes. :)

If I'm understanding this properly, the first was with double pitch of yeast while the second (oxygenated) was not? If so, that kind of makes sense as the oxygen supports cell reproduction, whereas with a double pitch you already have double cells.
 
My problem is that I was trying to do too many things better each time. After 2 1/2 years of brewing it occurred to me I've never brewed two batches the same. I've always added new equipment, tried new techniques, and never used the same recipe again. While I've had a lot of fun playing around, I don't have much data I can use.

I've never brewed the same beer twice and I don't care.

Commercial breweries need to brew the same beer so that when they ship "Butt Pee Porter" it tastes just like the "But Pee Porter" that their customers remember having last week or last year, but I don't have that problem.

I do care that I can brew what I set out to brew (i.e. i decide that I want to brew an american brown, i don't want something that tastes more like an english mild or a porter) and that i make good beer. If a new technique makes this batch better the last, of course I'm going to use it!
 
Well, there's no accounting for taste. :) I also don't care for Saisons, but at a brew day last month I had a couple short glasses of it, trying to see what about it was offputting to me. By the end of the second glass I had moved toward neutral on it. Who knows, if someone strapped me down and force-fed me Belgians for an extended period, perhaps I might develop a taste for it.
I got bored pretty quick with the diverse craft beer selection of IPA's, DIPA's, TIPA's, Black IPA's, Red IPA's, Single Hop IPA's, 10 Hop IPA's, All Hop IPA's, Hop infused, dry hopped, hopped in outer space IPA's, etc, etc, etc... I started buying Belgians ales, (specifically Trappist), and got into the whole Belgian ale history/culture/thing. I started reading about them, wasted good money on Stan Hieronymous' book, and watched every youtube documentary I could find about Belgium and Belgian beer... So I suppose it was an acquired taste, but my obsession was based on the whole "Belgian" experience, (short of actually going to Belgium).

After a year of drinking Belgian ales almost exclusively I can honestly say that I have officially burned myself out, (at least for a minute).
... Do you take detailed notes about each brew? That's the only way I've been able to reproduce batches. Everything from the water composition and additions to mash temp to pH to hop AA to fermentation temp and schedule, finings, etc.
I took notes... I'll leave it there. At first my notes were very detailed. Of course I had no idea what I was doing so most of the "details" were unnecessary. As time went on I decided everything is saved in BeerSmith and Bru N' Water anyway so my notes got a lot less... "detailed." The idea of being able to reproduce anything wasn't really a huge concern. I was basically throwing darts blindfolded hoping I might occasionally hit the bullseye. That method has changed. I got my second wind.
... If you don't have feeler gauges, one method some use to set the gap is to use a credit card as the thickness between the teeth of the rollers. That worked for me well. For BIAB, I had to go thinner yet, to .020.
I have the Brew Bag so I'm planning to set it pretty fine myself. I have a set of feeler gauges, I just need to figure out how much to compensate for rust - :D
I think the drill attachment is a clever way to do it. Just try to do something better every time, take good notes, and keep the process as steady as you can.
Yeah - I brewed a lot of "eh, it's okay" beers. Mostly unimpressive beer with a few less than unimpressive batches thrown in. Given my blindfolded dart throwing methodology I'm sure that's probably not that surprising. But I will admit my enthusiasm was diminishing as time went on. Then I brewed the W.O.G. (waste of grain). That was the big Belgian Quad with 21 pounds of grain that I hit 35% efficiency on. It was discouraging, (to put it mildly). I then brewed an APA a few weeks later. While the pale ale was fermenting the W.O.G. had been bottle conditioning for a couple weeks so I decided to give it a taste just to see if it would surprise me . . . it didn't. It tasted pretty much as bad as I expected it probably would, to match everything else that had gone wrong with that batch. I actually started taking pictures of all my equipment with the intention of posting it on craigslist. I figured the brewing thing had been a good run and I was glad I did it, but I didn't want to waste anymore time or money on mediocre beer when I can just go to the store and buy good beer.

Then my pale ale was ready to sample and my attitude did a complete flip. It's not only the best beer I've brewed to date, it's (honestly) up there among some of the best beers I've drank. I'm sure everyone says that about their beer.

Be that as it may it's given me a renewed passion to BREW ON! :rockin:
But this time I'm changing my entire outlook and taking it a lot more seriously. No more throwing darts blindfolded hoping to hit something good. I now know I can brew good beer - now the goal is to do it again, and again, and again.
 
I've never brewed the same beer twice and I don't care.

Commercial breweries need to brew the same beer so that when they ship "Butt Pee Porter" it tastes just like the "But Pee Porter" that their customers remember having last week or last year, but I don't have that problem.

I do care that I can brew what I set out to brew (i.e. i decide that I want to brew an american brown, i don't want something that tastes more like an english mild or a porter) and that i make good beer. If a new technique makes this batch better the last, of course I'm going to use it!
You have to have a foundation to start from, that was really my point. My goal has never been to "brew the same beer" like the "commercial breweries need to".
 
I have a question for the group. Rather than a single hit of pure oxygen at pitching time and getting the concentration high enough to get the yeast though their growth phase, why not simply bubble air through the diffuser at a lower oxygen content but just maintain it for the important first 24 hours? Filtered of course. Don't worry about a magic concentration, just make plenty available while they are reproducing. Reasonable?
 
I have a question for the group. Rather than a single hit of pure oxygen at pitching time and getting the concentration high enough to get the yeast though their growth phase, why not simply bubble air through the diffuser at a lower oxygen content but just maintain it for the important first 24 hours? Filtered of course. Don't worry about a magic concentration, just make plenty available while they are reproducing. Reasonable?

Sounds scary to me, but I'm curious to hear the results if you try it. If you keep on adding oxygen for too long, I would think you'll eventually permanently oxidize the beer, which would stale it.
 
Back
Top