The 0 Effective Alkalinity Method

[ajdelange]

The more I think about the 0 effective alkalinity method of pH control the more I like it to the point where I'd like to propose the following description of it as a Sticky.

When adding acid to a mash to adjust its pH to a desired value, pHz, the amount of acid added is the sum of the acid additions required to do the following:

1. Change the distribution of the water's H+ and (OH)- ions to that dictated by pHz.
2. Change the distribution of H2CO3, HCO3- and CO3-- to that dictated by pHz.
3. Change the distribution of malt acid system ions to that dictated by pHz.

The amount of acid required for Item 1) is easily calculated from the water's sample pH and pHz alone. The amount of acid required for Item 2) is easily calculated from the water's sample pH, pHz and the water's alkalinity. Procedures for doing the calculations are given in another Stickies (https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/calculating-bicarbonate-and-carbonate.473408/).

The amount of acid required for Item 3) for each malt is easily calculated from the malt's DI mash pH, pHz and some malt buffering parameters which must have been measured or estimated using the method outlined at http://wetnewf.org/pdfs/Brewing_articles/MBAA_FREDERIC.pptx or a similar method.

In the usual approach to the problem the brewer obtains a water report from a laboratory and punches the results into a calculator or spreadsheet. He then puts data about the malts he intends to use into the same spreadsheet which calculates the sum of the 3 acid components and reports them to the user. The problems with this approach are four:

1. The water report's parameters will be in error due to imperfect measurement technique (these errors are usually fairly small)
2. What comes out of the tap on brew day may be substantially different from what came out on the day the tested sample was drawn due to source variations.
3. The calculator/spreadsheet's model of the carbonic system may be naive (usually causes small error)
4. As actual malt measurements are few and doing them oneself requires a substantial investment in time and equipment the malt models available to most brewers are not very accurate.

There isn't much that can be done about the fourth problem but the first three can be eliminated completely by simply adding enough acid to the brewing water to bring it to pHz. Water source secular variations, lab errors and calculator approximations are no longer a factor and we can leave the calculator to do what we really don't have much of an alternative for and that is to estimate the acid required by the malts. To do this we simply tell the calculator that the water's alkalinity is 0. It then calculates 0 for Items 1) and 2). On brew day one simply brings the water to pHz and then adds the additional acid demanded by the program with 0 alkalinity input.

There is, of course, a catch and that arises in the situation where the 0 alkalinity calculation demands a negative acid (base) input because of acidic grains. Here you will have to think a bit and do some calculations so some readers may wish, in this case, to revert to the usual method when it arises. What follows is for the rest.

When you acidify your water to pHz you are measuring its alkalinity to pHz, not the standard value required by the published procedures for alkalinity measurement, but it is with pHz that we are concerned. Once the water is at pHz its alkalinity to mash pH is 0.

At this point I think an example will be beneficial. For the example I am going to use metric for volumes and mEq for alkalinity and proton measurement because that makes things so much simpler as you will see if you try to convert everything to other units.

Lets say your target pH is 5.4 and you treat 40 L of water with 7.0 mL of 88% lactic acid to reach this pH. The following table gives the strength (Normality = mEq/mL) of 88% lactic acid at various pH values

pH N
4.5 9.59
5.2 11.26
5.3 11.36
5.4 11.45
5.5 11.51
8.0 11.77

At pHz=5.4 88% lactic acid is 11.45N and in using 7 mL of it you added 7*11.45 = 80.15 mEq of protons to your 40 L of water for 80.15/40 = 2 mEq/L Note that I have included the normality at pH 4.5 which is the ISO standard pH for alkalinity determination. Had you continued adding acid to that pH you would have used 9.418 mL equating to 90.31 mEq/40L or 2.26 mEq/L. That's 112.0 ppm as CaCO3 (multiply mEq/L by 50) which is the ISO alkalinity. Note, of course, that you needen't use lactic acid for this nor do you need to use the whole volume of water you intend to treat. You could very well have used 100 mL of the water with 0.1N acid sold for alkalinity determination Just be sure to get the alkalinity at pHz (and at 5.4 if you like). But as you will need at least some of the treated water you might just as well get your alkalinity measurement from the larger volume. The important thing is that you know your alkalinity to pHz: 2.0 mEq/L.

Having determined your water's alkalinity to pHz is 2.0 mEq/L you can then have your calculator tell you how much acid to add for your grain choices. If it tells you to add a base such as bicarbonate then you have the situation we are talking about and you must figure out how much proton absorbing capacity it wants you to add. To do this zero out any acid or base additions you have made and incrementally add sodium bicarbonate until the program predicts mash pH of pHz. Most of the calculators are not sophisticated enough to realize that the strength of sodium bicarbonate as a base depends on pH any more than they are aware that the strength of lactic acid does (the pH 8 entry in the lactic acid table above is what your spreadsheet will assume the strength of lactic acid to be). Therefore, take the sodium bicarbonate recommendation and divide it by the molecular weight of sodium bicarbonate, 84 mg/mmol, and assume that the program wants that many mEq protons to be absorbed. For example, if the program requires 3.5 grams (3500 mg) of sodium bicarbonate to reach pH 5.4 then assume it wants 3500/84 = 41.7 mEq proton absorbing power in the mash water. Suppose you plan to mash with 12 L of water. Clearly your treated water with proton absorbing power at pHz of 0 won't do so you simply take 12 L more of your untreated tap water which has 2 mEq/L*12L = 24 mEq proton absorbing capacity and add (41.7 - 24)*84 = 1486.8 mg sodium bicarbonate to it. The other 40 L you prepared has 0 alkalinity WRT mash pH and is thus suitable sparge, makeup or dilution water.

Finally we consider the case where the program wants less alkalinity than found in 12 L of your tap water (24 mEq) say 10 mEq. In this case just measure out the amount of tap water necessary to give those 10 mEq (10/2 = 5L) and add enough (7 L) of the treated water (of 0 alkalinity) to make up to the mash water volume of 12 L.

 

[ajdelange]

Since in the week this has been posted it has only been looked at by about 100 people and no one has commented I have to conclude that I have somehow failed to convey the potential value of this method to those home brewers who do not use RO but instead use acid additions calculated from water reports to control mash pH. Or perhaps it is already familiar from me droning on about it fairly frequently here. That's why I wanted it stickied - so I wouldn't have to type it out over and over.

Is it not understood/unclear? Or not thought useful? Or too difficult? Or not of interest? Or just 'who cares'?

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

This method will indeed eliminate a primary source for error in hitting a predetermined mash pH target, as water analysis reports are only reliable for the water as it existed on the very day that it was drawn for testing, and alkalinity (be it city water or well) can vary by the day, if not by the season. Some city water supply companies blend their water from two or more sources, and are free to use different blends throughout the year.

In addition, if the software one chooses to get them to their desired mash pH target is not handling alkalinity (bicarbonate) fully correctly, this method also removes that potential source for additional error.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

OTOH, if you are confident about your waters level of alkalinity, and you are not confident as to your ability to follow along with A.J.'s math, you can forego the math and instead simply use your mash pH softwares sparge water pH adjustment tool to adjust both your strike and sparge water to 5.4 pH.

 

[z-bob]

Since in the week this has been posted it has only been looked at by about 100 people and no one has commented I have to conclude that I have somehow failed to convey the potential value of this method to those home brewers who do not use RO but instead use acid additions calculated from water reports to control mash pH. Or perhaps it is already familiar from me droning on about it fairly frequently here. That's why I wanted it stickied - so I wouldn't have to type it out over and over.

Is it not understood/unclear? Or not thought useful? Or too difficult? Or not of interest? Or just 'who cares'?

I just saw this thread today. What is pHz?

 

[brewgar]

Sticky! Sticky! Sticky!

 

[ajdelange]

I just saw this thread today. What is pHz?

When adding acid to a mash to adjust its pH to a desired value, pHz,...

 

[z-bob]

So it's a coined term for the desired endpoint pH? (I'm fine with that, I just couldn't find a definition anywhere and it looked like the whole explanation was dependent on that) Or did I still miss the point? Thanks.

 

[ajdelange]

So it's a made-up term for the desired endpoint pH?

Yes, completely made - up. When John Palmer was working on his water book he called me up and asked me if I had a suggestion as to what symbol to use for the target pH. I must have recently listened to Die Entführung aus dem Serail (the opera at the conclusion of which the [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caterina_Cavalieri']Caterina Cavalieri character pastes Wolfie with the bouquet, if you remember the movie) or perhaps watched Amadeus because the last couplet of Belmonte's first aria came to mind:[/URL]

Schenk' mir dafür nun Freuden
Und bringe mich ans Ziel.

which translates as "Grant me therefore joy and bring me to my goal". So z comes from Ziel which means goal. pHz = "pH goal". John thought it would be great to have something with a German origin (though I suppose it's really Austrian) in a book about beer and used pHz wherever he referred to a desired or target pH and I've been using it ever since too.

 

[pricelessbrewing]

Looks interesting, but a bit difficult to follow since you refer to other posts without saying where they are or providing a link or quote.

If this is to stay a sticky post, I think those need to be added.

 

[ajdelange]

As the only other post referred to is a Sticky it is reasonable to suppose that it would be found in the Stickies part of this forum and indeed it is. But I'll also point out that the material in that Sticky is not necessary for understanding this Sticky as this one is all about a method that removes the need to do what the referenced sticky describes. One does not need to know alkalinity, source pH, carbonate or bicarbonate numbers to set his water except in the case where negative acid is required and this Sticky tells us what to do then.

It is also reasonable to assume that since one reader couldn't figure out where to look for the referenced Sticky so will there be others. I have, therefore, put a link to it in the post as well as to a link where the method for measuring malt parameters is described along with how all this is put together to predict (or control) mash pH.

 

[Braufessor]

Since in the week this has been posted it has only been looked at by about 100 people and no one has commented I have to conclude that I have somehow failed to convey the potential value of this method to those home brewers who do not use RO but instead use acid additions calculated from water reports to control mash pH. Or perhaps it is already familiar from me droning on about it fairly frequently here. That's why I wanted it stickied - so I wouldn't have to type it out over and over.

Is it not understood/unclear? Or not thought useful? Or too difficult? Or not of interest? Or just 'who cares'?

I think some of the lack of response/traffic could simply be that, while this might seem simple/straight forward to some, it would be overwhelming to the vast majority of home brewers. I have been brewing for over 20 years. I do a lot of reading. I frequent the forums. I have sent samples to ward labs. I have a pH meter. I use water adjustment software. I have a functional understanding of what I need to do for all kinds of beer styles to adjust my water appropriately and predictably......However, having read through the information a multiple times, I come to two conclusions:

1.) I am fairly certain what you are outlining is accurate and potentially useful information that folks could potentially implement for their brewing practice.

2.) I don't understand it in the least and it in no way seems easy or simple (to me).

For most people who adjust their water, "easy" is plugging numbers into a spreadsheet and following the prescribed outcomes. (i.e........ applying a set of steps as opposed to understanding the underlying formulas for each of those steps).

Not saying it is right or wrong, good or bad - but there is really a tiny fraction of people who understand the underlying principles of these things (or any of the steps in brewing). So, while this information is probably accurate and applicable - I just think some of the "lack of response" is more a statement about how little the vast, vast majority of us home brewers deeply understand each of the steps we take. It is also a statement about how much(little) we might want to take the time to try to understand. i.e..... Brewer 1 understands the complexity of enzyme interactions in the mash. Brewer 2 does not. They both mash an ale grain bill at 152........ Brewer 1 does not get something special by understanding why the enzymes are doing what they are doing. As long as both brewers apply the appropriate prescribed steps, they arrive in the same destination.

** Now, obviously, Brewer 2 is depending on the advice and procedures of others who DO understand the underlying processes. However, Brewer 2 need not understand the "math" in order to have the same, or even more, success in brewing.

Not a commentary at all on the potential value of this info. Not a commentary at all on the fact that it is likely clear and concise to those who understand/want to understand these topics. Not a commentary on it being useful as a sticky post (it is the brewSCIENCE subforum). More just an observation about the lack of response being a commentary on the likelihood that it is a very, very small audience that understands and utilizes information at this level.

 

[SanPancho]

Dumb it way down. Give the basic steps to follow and how to use with a typical software suite.

Leave the explanations and technical stuff for after you have made it simple to follow and carry out.

Id try it, if i didn’t have to spend an hour or two studying it. But this seems way more complicated than what i currently do, no motivation to switch.

Get it simple to follow and carry out here, then start another post for sticky.

 

[sixhotdogneck]

The benefits of this procedure are not clear to me, it seems to short circuit some calculations in the spreadsheet, but this is how I understand it:

1a.) Measure the pH of your water (if not known)
2a.) Measure the alkalinity of your water (if not known)
3a.) Use the sparge calculator of your spreadsheet to estimate the amount of acid required to bring your water to the desired mash pH by entering the water's pH, the desired mash pH and the alkalinity of your water (some calculators are able to estimate alkalinity and/or pH by using various other parameters).
4a.) Acidify your strike water to the desired mash pH by added the recommended amount of acid

Congratulations you've just acidified your strike water to your desired mash pH.

The next step is to deal with the grains (mash pH).

1b.) Select 100% RO or Distilled water in your spreadsheet (even if you're not using these waters)
2b.) Enter your grain bill
3b.) Enter the volume of strike water for the mash
4b.) Observe the calculated (estimated) mash pH

We now have the following:

1c.) A volume of strike water set to the desired mash pH
2c.) An estimated mash pH

If 1c = 2c then you can proceed to mash (the pH's are equal)

If 1c > 2c then you need to determine how much alkalinity to add to the mash:

Zero out any alkalinity/acid additions in your spreadsheet and continuing with the spreadsheet as configured in (1b-4b). Add (baking soda or pickling lime) until your spreadsheet matches the desired mash pH. This is the amount of alkalinity to add to the mash.

If 1c < 2c then you need to determine how much acid to add to the mash:

Zero out any alkalinity/acid additions in your spreadsheet and continuing with the spreadsheet as configured in (1b-4b).. Add (the acid of your choice) until your spreadsheet matches the desired mash pH. This is the amount of acid to add to the mash.

 

[ajdelange]

The benefits of this procedure are not clear to me, it seems to short circuit some calculations in the spreadsheet, but this is how I understand it:

1a.) Measure the pH of your water (if not known)
2a.) Measure the alkalinity of your water (if not known)
3a.) Use the sparge calculator of your spreadsheet to estimate the amount of acid required to bring your water to the desired mash pH by entering the water's pH, the desired mash pH and the alkalinity of your water (some calculators are able to estimate alkalinity and/or pH by using various other parameters).
4a.) Acidify your strike water to the desired mash pH by added the recommended amount of acid

Congratulations you've just acidified your strike water to your desired mash pH.

Either peoples' reading comprehension is a lot less than I have assumed or my ability to express my ideas is a lot less than I have assumed or both.

In any case this is a list of the things that you do not have to do to use the 0 alkalinity method and which makes it simpler therefore. Do us both a favor and go back and read it again and if that is not clear upon a second or more careful reading please come back here and post again. If it is not clear I will try to fix it so it is.

The next step is to deal with the grains (mash pH).

1b.) Select 100% RO or Distilled water in your spreadsheet (even if you're not using these waters)
2b.) Enter your grain bill
3b.) Enter the volume of strike water for the mash

So far, so good.

4b.) Observe the calculated (estimated) mash pH

No. Set the desired mash pH and see how much acid the spreadsheet wants you to use. Add that amount of acid to your water and mash.

We now have the following:

1c.) A volume of strike water set to the desired mash pH
2c.) An estimated mash pH

If that's what we had there would be no value to the method. What we in fact have is water which has been properly treated for a desired mash pH irrespective of its pH or alkalinity (so that variations in the supply don't matter) and an estimate of the amount of acid that is required to handle the alkalinity of the malts.

If 1c = 2c then you can proceed to mash (the pH's are equal)

As the surmise is wrong the rest is irrelevant. What is relevant is that if in the second step you are advised that you need to remove acid then your situation is not so simple and you will have to actually do some thinking and take some measurements. It has been suggested that this is beyond the capability of most home brewers (I don't believe it) but I offered the suggestion that in this situation you might want to revert to the traditional way of doing things. If you are willing to undertake the extra work, and have the understanding, then, while I think we may have to stop advertising the method as simpler, it still offers the benefits of immunity to secular variations in your water supply which are clearly lost unless you measure pH and alkalinity of your water (and use a spreadsheet that properly processes those numbers).

Remember, folks, this is the Brewing Science forum so, while perhaps it were better renamed the Brewing Water forum, I still feel it is completely appropriate to offer ideas related to brewing science here.

 

[ajdelange]

2.) I don't understand it in the least and it in no way seems easy or simple (to me).

My fear is that it really is simple (but maybe it's not) and that I am just unable to explain it clearly.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

If your chosen software is capable of properly handling the pH effects of both the grist to be mashed and the mash water alkalinity, then both should be properly accounted for in one single shot. But if one doubts their softwares ability to simultaneously juggle grist needs and alkalinity needs, then A.J.'s method eliminates the alkalinity side of the equation(s), leaving the software to only have to do battle with the grist.

 

[z-bob]

I think you're trying to separate acidifying the grain from acidifying the strike water.

I need to go back and reread the first post; I know I should do that before posting this, but am I on the right track here? I just went into the Brewers Friend water chemistry from the link in a new recipe I'm working on. Ordinarily I would select my water profile.

1. DON'T select a water profile, let it default to all zeroes.
2. Enter the strike water volume and the grain bill.
3. I press the Update Calculations button and it predicts the pH will be 5.71
4. Open the Acid Additions twistie and check the "Acid added to mash only" and "Specify acid by target mash pH" boxes, input my favorite acid (lactic, 88%) and the target pH (5.4) and Update again.
5. It says I need 4ml of acid to bring it down to 5.40
6. NOW I go back up and select my water profile, and the pH rises to about 5.7 again.

Not sure what happens next. I think add more acid in the calculator til the pH is right, and write down what the delta is... and that's how much acid I always need for this water independent of the grainbill. (that's actually the important number) And the first number (4 ml) is how much I always need for this grain independent of the water. So if I move to another city with totally different water, my recipes can travel with me, I just need to figure out the water pH adjustment.

You could also do the steps in a different order; calculate the total acid first, then change the water profile to zeroes and see what the delta is.

 

[sixhotdogneck]

No. Set the desired mash pH and see how much acid the spreadsheet wants you to use. Add that amount of acid to your water and mash.

I'm not sure that Bru'n water works that way. It requires you to select the amount of acid/alkalinity to reach the target pH. It doesn't do that for you.

 

[sixhotdogneck]

...come back here and post again. If it is not clear I will try to fix it so it is.

You'll need to select a spreadsheet (Brunwater, etc...) and lay out step by step (like my post) how you would approach the problem.

 

[sixhotdogneck]

If your chosen software is capable of properly handling the pH effects of both the grist to be mashed and the mash water alkalinity, then both should be properly accounted for in one single shot. But if one doubts their softwares ability to simultaneously juggle grist needs and alkalinity needs, then A.J.'s method eliminates the alkalinity side of the equation(s), leaving the software to only have to do battle with the grist.

Yes, this is my though also.

 

[sixhotdogneck]

I think you're trying to separate acidifying the grain from acidifying the strike water.

I need to go back and reread the first post; I know I should do that before posting this, but am I on the right track here? I just went into the Brewers Friend water chemistry from the link in a new recipe I'm working on. Ordinarily I would select my water profile.

1. DON'T select a water profile, let it default to all zeroes.
2. Enter the strike water volume and the grain bill.
3. I press the Update Calculations button and it predicts the pH will be 5.71
4. Open the Acid Additions twistie and check the "Acid added to mash only" and "Specify acid by target mash pH" boxes, input my favorite acid (lactic, 88%) and the target pH (5.4) and Update again.
5. It says I need 4ml of acid to bring it down to 5.40
6. NOW I go back up and select my water profile, and the pH rises to about 5.7 again.

Not sure what happens next. I think add more acid in the calculator til the pH is right, and write down what the delta is... and that's how much acid I always need for this water independent of the grainbill. (that's actually the important number) And the first number (4 ml) is how much I always need for this grain independent of the water. So if I move to another city with totally different water, my recipes can travel with me, I just need to figure out the water pH adjustment.

You could also do the steps in a different order; calculate the total acid first, then change the water profile to zeroes and see what the delta is.

Ok, so this Brewers Friend calculator computes the volume of acid to hit the desired pH.

What you say makes sense, 4ml of acid with that particular grain bill when mashed with RO/Distilled will always bring the pH to about where you set it (what about yearly grain variations?). But if you're using tap water for strike then you'd need to acidify that tap water to the mash pH?

 

[z-bob]

Ok, so this Brewers Friend calculator computes the volume of acid to hit the desired pH.

What you say makes sense, 4ml of acid with that particular grain bill when mashed with RO/Distilled will always bring the pH to about where you set it (what about yearly grain variations?). But if you're using tap water for strike then you'd need to acidify that tap water to the mash pH?

What I need to try next in the calculator is use the water profile and no grain, and tell it to acidify to the mash pH (or 7, I'm not sure which) and see if that matches the delta from the earlier steps.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

I've been very careful with my software to assure that the alkalinity and grist can be handled in a single shot. One easy way to test this is to set up a single base malt mash in distilled or DI water with no minerals, and then incrementally and then micro-fractionally as needed, raise its Lovibond color until the single malt grist mashes at precisely the target pH (lets call it pH 5.4) to multiple decimal points of precision with precisely zero need for acid or base additions. Then without changing anything, pour on a bunch of alkalinity and see if the acid mEq's required to bring it back to 5.4 pH match up with the mEq's of the just added alkalinity. If you get a match your acid is handling the alkalinity and the grist properly. Then hit it with a load of negative alkalinity and check to see if the baking soda needed to bring it back to pH 5.4 pH again also is correct on an mEq for mEq basis (with due and proper consideration here for A.J's recently discovered weak base/weak dissociation issue related to baking soda). Then repeat all of this over again, but this time with mineralization added into the mash water mix. I'm highly satisfied that my program admirably meets these stringent tests.

 

[ajdelange]

If your chosen software is capable of properly handling the pH effects of both the grist to be mashed and the mash water alkalinity, then both should be properly accounted for in one single shot. But if one doubts their softwares ability to simultaneously juggle grist needs and alkalinity needs, then A.J.'s method eliminates the alkalinity side of the equation(s), leaving the software to only have to do battle with the grist.

The software has to handle both the alkalinity and pH of the source water. We always say that source water pH has little to do with the ultimate pH prediction and that was true in the days when source water pH was almost never > 8 but I keep seeing more and more Ward Labs reports here where pH > 8. While that still doens't make that much difference it is the kind of error we are trying to get rid of in going to the 2nd generation spreadsheets.

Now if you have your source water's pH and alkalinity and a spreadsheet that properly calculates the required acid from them then no, you don't need the 0 alkalinity method. But if you don't have those data (and you don't unless you measure them on the same day) then you can benefit from the 0 alkalinity method as the 0 alkaliity method requires you to effectively measure the water's alkalinity to mash pH (thus removing the need to know source water pH) but doesn't require you to write it down or enter it into a spreadsheet or program. It can still, thus, be of benefit.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

The software has to handle both the alkalinity and pH of the source water. We always say that source water pH has little to do with the ultimate pH prediction and that was true in the days when source water pH was almost never > 8 but I keep seeing more and more Ward Labs reports here where pH > 8. While that still doens't make that much difference it is the kind of error we are trying to get rid of in going to the 2nd generation spreadsheets.

A.J., for most source waters, by the time you gain precision by introducing water pH into the mix (with its extremely small buffering capacity to resist change addressed as you propose), then you are likely already at the juncture where your DI_pH, and titration factors are unreliable enough to toss things amiss yet again. But what are we talking about here? Correction at the level of perhaps 0.02 or 0.03 pH in mash precision? If that is the case then again I doubt that educated yet canned DI_pH guesses in conjunction with educated yet canned titration factors will permit such a gain in precision to bear fruit in the real world, as would the precision and stability of all but the best pH meters. Not 1 in 1,000 of us is going to even take DI_pH measurements for every lot of every malt we purchase, let alone subsequently go well beyond this and actually titrate them to several pH points, and record these required by your method values as well.

Don't take this negatively please, as I truly appreciate and applaud your effort, but how many of us will have the dead on precise data and instrumentation with which to benefit from it? And even if we do benefit from it, will we be able to taste the added benefit? Brulosophy has under and over pH target mashed (intentionally) and their test audience has failed to tell any difference within a degree of statistical validity. Rather the test audience generally can't tell the difference.

 

[ajdelange]

I think you're trying to separate acidifying the grain from acidifying the strike water.

Yes - exactly! Water can be properly acidified with out knowing anything about it. Just getting it to the right pH is all you have to do!

1. DON'T select a water profile, let it default to all zeroes.
2. Enter the strike water volume and the grain bill.
3. I press the Update Calculations button and it predicts the pH will be 5.71
4. Open the Acid Additions twistie and check the "Acid added to mash only" and "Specify acid by target mash pH" boxes, input my favorite acid (lactic, 88%) and the target pH (5.4) and Update again.
5. It says I need 4ml of acid to bring it down to 5.40
6. NOW I go back up and select my water profile, and the pH rises to about 5.7 again.

When you enter you water's profile enter 7 for the pH and 0 for the alkalinity. When you do that the mash pH prediction should be what you entered in the little box when you asked for lactic based on mash pH.

Not sure what happens next.

If you entered 0 for alkalinity and 7 for pH the water is out of the pH equation. The acid the acid calculator say you need then...

...is how much I always need for this grain independent of the water. So if I move to another city with totally different water, my recipes can travel with me,

I just need to figure out the water pH adjustment.

That is true but with the 0 alkalinity method you don't measure or figure anything water related. Simply add enough acid to get the water to the desired mash pH.

 

[ajdelange]

I'm not sure that Bru'n water works that way. It requires you to select the amount of acid/alkalinity to reach the target pH. It doesn't do that for you.

I find that hard to believe but I'll have to take your word for it. A brewer with x lbs of Malt A and y lbs of Malt B and water with given properties would have to use trial and error on acid additions to see how much lactic acid is required for pH 5.4?

If that's the case I'd recommend another program such as Brewer's Friend which does take one directly to the answer.

 

[sixhotdogneck]

A brewer with x lbs of Malt A and y lbs of Malt B and water with given properties would have to use trial and error on acid additions to see how much lactic acid is required for pH 5.4?

That is correct.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

I find that hard to believe but I'll have to take your word for it. A brewer with x lbs of Malt A and y lbs of Malt B and water with given properties would have to use trial and error on acid additions to see how much lactic acid is required for pH 5.4?

If that's the case I'd recommend another program such as Brewer's Friend which does take one directly to the answer.

Mash Made Easy also takes you directly to the answer. Most (if not all) others (sans Brewer's Friend, as you mentioned above) do work only via a confusing array of hunt and peck, hit and miss, until one finally stumbles upon the answer, or rather more often than not, gets seemingly close enough, and then calls it quits.

 

[Big Monk]

I find that hard to believe but I'll have to take your word for it. A brewer with x lbs of Malt A and y lbs of Malt B and water with given properties would have to use trial and error on acid additions to see how much lactic acid is required for pH 5.4?

Yes, and in ml/gal to boot. Since most sheets are solving for the Mash pH, and not pHz, you don't get to choose your target. Silver's MME is a notable exception. In many ways it functions like our new sheet, except the guts are still color based.

 

[ajdelange]

You'll need to select a spreadsheet (Brunwater, etc...) and lay out step by step (like my post) how you would approach the problem.

OK.
Water: 8 gal Calcium 40 mg/L, Alkalinity 100 ppm as CaCO3, pH 8.3
Malt 10 lbs 3 °L base; 4 lbs 7 °L Base

In Brewers Friend go to the source water pane and enter 40 mg/L for the calcium, 0 ppm for the alkalinity and 7 for the pH
At the Grist Info pane enter 10, 3, 4 and 7 in the appropriate fields
Go to the Acid Additions pane, tick the Acid Added to Mash Only and Specify Acid by Target pH boxes. Specify Lactic Acid 88% and a target mash pH of 5.4 and then hit the Update Calculations button. "Add 3.64 mL" should appear next to the target mash pH box. This is the amount of acid you would needed were these grains to be mashed with distilled water or water whose alkalinity has been nullified by acidifying it to pH 5.4. A check of the Mash Report pane should confirm pH 5.4.

 

[ajdelange]

A.J., for most source waters, by the time you gain precision by introducing water pH into the mix ...

When you assay to control mash pH you do it based on the alkalinities of the malts WRT to mash pH and of the water WRT to mash pH. When you use a spreadsheet or calculator to determine the amount of acid to add for each of these sources you rely on measurements. In the best case these measurements are made on the water in your HLT and the malts in your grist case. Even under these best of circumstances the measurements are corrupted by various sources of error, the spreadsheets use oversimplifications of the chemistry and are we sure that 88% lactic acid is really 88%?. In the more typical case the water measurement was made by Ward Labs when the guy moved into the house last year. Best case or worst case the 0 alkalinity method removes any and all sources of error save 1 from the water equation. The one error it cannot remove is that of the pH measurement that determines when the water has been properly acidified (is it really at pH 5.4?). Whether the improvement in the pH estimate for the mash be 0.01 pH or 0.1 pH you are still better off with the 0 alkalinity method than if you rely on the more conventional means.

All that under consideration the guy that is going to benefit most is the guy whose source water is seasonably variable and doesn't have the means nor the desire to measure alkalinity and pH each times he brews.

 

[sixhotdogneck]

Thanks, I'll try Brewers Friend. Trying to do the same in Bru n water doesn't seem to match the output of your calculator, not even when selecting 100% distilled. Maybe I've input something wrong.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

I believe that 6.02 mL Lactic (to hit pH 5.4 in the mash) is intended for 100 ppm alkalinity mash water, but A.J. mistakenly said to enter it as zero (after initially mentioning it as 100 ppm).

In Mash Made Easy version 2.30 I get 6.5 mL of 88%lactic acid for a target pH of 5.40, and 6.02 mL of 88% lactic acid for a target pH of 5.43, provided that I set 8 gallons of mash water to 40 ppm Calcium and 100 ppm alkalinity.

So for this specific example Brewers Friend and MME are off by only 0.03 pH between them. But even this small and generally inconsequential difference could easily be erased by selecting a slightly different buffering capacity value than the 40 value I have set in MME version 2.30 as the default, and/or by entering a manual DI_pH value for each of this grists malts.

 

[ajdelange]

Actually it is because your faithful, but witless, correspondent forgot to 0 the alkalinity field! The number for 0 is 3.64 mL. I've edited No. 32 to show this. But there is something to be learned here. With the malt and the water you'd need 6 mL. For the malt only 3.64 meaning that the water takes 2.36 mEq. In the usual method you would enter 100 and calculate 6, measure out 6 and, assuming the lactic acid was really at it's labeled strength and the calculations correct hit pH 5.4. In the 0 alkalinity method you would just add lactic acid to the water until you hit pH 5.4. Were the calcualtions and measurements correct this would require 3.64 mL but it wouldn't matter if the water's alkalinity was actually 80 or if the lactic acid had aged to 84% or if the graduated cylinder was off 2%. The water would be right.

 

[sixhotdogneck]

Hrm... something doesn't add up here... The process from AJ and z-bob both say to use 0 alkalinity water but silver_is_money says to use 100 ppm alkalinity water... when the alkalinity is set in Bru n water it also comes up with 6.2ml for 8 gal... but isn't the gist to use 0 alkalinity water as the input to determine the amount of acid needed to overcome the grains acidity/alkalinity? Still confused.

 

[ajdelange]

Thanks, I'll try Brewers Friend. Trying to do the same in Bru n water doesn't seem to match the output of your calculator, not even when selecting 100% distilled.

Check No 36. first.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

OK, with A.J.'s correction to his earlier post I see what he is doing now.

 

[ajdelange]

Hrm... something doesn't add up here... The process from AJ and z-bob both say to use 0 alkalinity water but silver_is_money says to use 100 ppm alkalinity water...

You have to read these posts very carefully and often more than once. What he said was that he believed that the 6 mL figure pertained to a mash made with water of 100 ppm alkalinity - not one with 0 actual or effective alkalinity and he was right. I forgot to 0 the alkalinity when I kicked off the calculation.