Thank the Ethanol Hoax for higher malt prices

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

EdWort

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2006
Messages
11,896
Reaction score
471
Location
Bee Cave, Texas
A very interesting article on the ethanol BS. Facts gleened from it are....

Ethanol contains water that distillation cannot remove.

It takes 450 pounds of corn to produce the ethanol to fill one SUV tank.
It takes more than one gallon of fossil fuel -- oil and natural gas -- to produce one gallon of ethanol.
It takes 1,700 gallons of water to produce one gallon of ethanol.


Big Corn and Ethanol Hoax
By Walter E. Williams
Wednesday, March 12, 2008
One of the many mandates of the Energy Policy Act of 2005 calls for oil companies to increase the amount of ethanol mixed with gasoline. President Bush said, during his 2006 State of the Union address, "America is addicted to oil, which is often imported from unstable parts of the world." Let's look at some of the "wonders" of ethanol as a replacement for gasoline.

Ethanol contains water that distillation cannot remove. As such, it can cause major damage to automobile engines not specifically designed to burn ethanol. The water content of ethanol also risks pipeline corrosion and thus must be shipped by truck, rail car or barge. These shipping methods are far more expensive than pipelines.

Ethanol is 20 to 30 percent less efficient than gasoline, making it more expensive per highway mile. It takes 450 pounds of corn to produce the ethanol to fill one SUV tank. That's enough corn to feed one person for a year. Plus, it takes more than one gallon of fossil fuel -- oil and natural gas -- to produce one gallon of ethanol. After all, corn must be grown, fertilized, harvested and trucked to ethanol producers -- all of which are fuel-using activities. And, it takes 1,700 gallons of water to produce one gallon of ethanol. On top of all this, if our total annual corn output were put to ethanol production, it would reduce gasoline consumption by 10 or 12 percent.

Ethanol is so costly that it wouldn't make it in a free market. That's why Congress has enacted major ethanol subsidies, about $1.05 to $1.38 a gallon, which is no less than a tax on consumers. In fact, there's a double tax -- one in the form of ethanol subsidies and another in the form of handouts to corn farmers to the tune of $9.5 billion in 2005 alone.

There's something else wrong with this picture. If Congress and President Bush say we need less reliance on oil and greater use of renewable fuels, then why would Congress impose a stiff tariff, 54 cents a gallon, on ethanol from Brazil? Brazilian ethanol, by the way, is produced from sugar cane and is far more energy efficient, cleaner and cheaper to produce.

Ethanol production has driven up the prices of corn-fed livestock, such as beef, chicken and dairy products, and products made from corn, such as cereals. As a result of higher demand for corn, other grain prices, such as soybean and wheat, have risen dramatically. The fact that the U.S. is the world's largest grain producer and exporter means that the ethanol-induced higher grain prices will have a worldwide impact on food prices.

It's easy to understand how the public, looking for cheaper gasoline, can be taken in by the call for increased ethanol usage. But politicians, corn farmers and ethanol producers know they are running a cruel hoax on the American consumer. They are in it for the money. The top leader in the ethanol hoax is Archer Daniels Midland (ADM), the country's largest producer of ethanol. Ethanol producers and the farm lobby have pressured farm state congressmen into believing that it would be political suicide if they didn't support subsidized ethanol production. That's the stick. Campaign contributions play the role of the carrot.

The ethanol hoax is a good example of a problem economists refer to as narrow, well-defined benefits versus widely dispersed costs. It pays the ethanol lobby to organize and collect money to grease the palms of politicians willing to do their bidding because there's a large benefit for them -- higher wages and profits. The millions of gasoline consumers, who fund the benefits through higher fuel and food prices, as well as taxes, are relatively uninformed and have little clout. After all, who do you think a politician will invite into his congressional or White House office to have a heart-to-heart -- you or an Archer Daniels Midlands executive?

I cannot believe we've been suckered into this BS and now are paying for it via taxes, higher food prices, higher malt prices, and higher gas prices.
 
The current issue in Science has 2 articles in it debunking ethanol. I was quite surprised.

By the way, Ed, PM me when you get into SLC.

Edit: Actually, I think it's in Nature.
 
You are 100% correct Ed.....If the government wants a viable renewable energy source to help elevate the need for fossil fuel we should be working on a better more reliable Bio-diesel. At least with Bio-diesel you can use recycled vegetable oils instead of relying on a world food source. Ethanol from corn is going to be the death of us yet.....:mad:
 
Yeah, I never cared for the whole ethanol craze. Lowers octane ratings, absorbs water and dollar per mile, it is cheaper to run regular gasoline. I have noticed alot of gas stations around here have %10 ethanol with out any real notification. I put a system in an ethanol plant in KS and it is rediculous how much corn and water the go through. However the water they used for the process was reuse water from the local waste water plant. So I wouldnt say they were wasting water.
I hear locally they are putting in a large algae bioreactor for Bio-diesel. ought to be interesting.
 
Strangely I am with you ED.;)

The government saw this as a trendy "we are eco friendly" thing.

It was preposterous from the start.
 
Virtuous said:
Lowers octane ratings

Actually it has a much higher octane rating, that is why you usually can't run higher then 70% ethanol in the winter. I know what you mean though....it has less energy per volume then gasoline, around 30%
 
Why is it that so many of these "environmental" solutions are actually worse for the environment that just leaving things alone. I have no problem balancing environmental conservation with the survival and advancement of the human species, but so much "environmental science" is based on flawed research. The big names in saving the environment really only care about lining their pockets.
 
wihophead said:
Actually it has a much higher octane rating, that is why you usually can't run higher then 70% ethanol in the winter. I know what you mean though....it has less energy per volume then gasoline, around 30%
Thanks for the correction. I drew the conclusion cause all of the green fuel I have seen is soo low on the octane scale
 
cheezydemon said:
It is not exactly "green", gasoline is a natural product, it is just running out.
It's not running out any time soon, but we just cannot drill for oil in America anymore. Canada has the largest reserves which dwarf what is left in Saudi Arabia. We inflict our own pain.
 
I find this all very funny.

We have an Ethenol plant in the town I used to live in (about 20 miles away) and another about 7 miles away.

I recently spoke with a couple of retirees who wanted to talk to me about investing MY $$$...they said they invested 200K in those plants and found out they aren't expected to receive a dime from any of them for a couple of years...meanwhile all my $$$ are plain old cash and CDs...low rates, but low risk also...;)
 
This is just the tip of the iceberg I'm affraid.

I predict you will see other large food manufacturers just deciding to cut production and operations due to the simple fact that ingredient costs are just out of control. Government ethanol mandates are to blame.

Lawmakers have listened and taken money from the well heeled lobbyists at ADM and the corn producers while ignoring the consequences with regard to the impact these policies will have on food prices and what that means for Joe consumer.

Unintended consequences.....
 
Where I live it's all about the corn. Ethanol is the mantra. And they can smoke me.

IMHO, we'd be a helluva lot better off drilling, and taking advantage of the nuke power we developed then stopped using, as opposed to driving up food costs because of the high demand of corn based fuels.

It's nonsense. And in the end I bet by the end of this summer, I'll still be paying over $4 a gal to drive my 13 year old car. Mad Max would be impressed.

Ize
 
Most environmentalist's are against the ethanol craze. Yes ethanol is a clean burning fuel. Downside is it causes more harm than good to make the damn stuff.

Same thing with hydrogen, unless you have a a steady supply of thermo energy and even then I've heard that this done on a long term/large capacity can actually lead to problems with things like earthquakes.
 
I haven't studied much about distillation, but I know you can ferment, and distill sawdust (just don't drink it!) So why couldn't you ferment sawdust, yard waste, and left over hey (if you have livestock), and distill it with a solar still, in order to make your own fuel? I know it's illegal to use home made ethanol/methanol on public roads, because you haven't paid highway taxes, etc. on it.

But, like I've been telling people at work...In the last great depression, people distilled to bootleg booze. Since booze is now legal, I believe that in the next great depression (which we're headed full speed into in the next 2 years) people will be distilling to bootleg fuel.
 
thermo energy and even then I've heard that this done on a long term/large capacity can actually lead to problems with things like earthquakes.

Thats the silliest thing Ive ever heard. A combination of Nuke and Thermo energy could reduce our dependency on oil to almost nothing. Coal has been turned into diesel fuel and alge can be used to make biodiesel.

New tech like pebble bed reactors which do not use enriched uranium, are designed so that they can never over heat. A combination of safe fuel, lost cost structures and long term energy production could make Electricity almost free. But who wants that?
 
MikeFlynn74 said:
Thats the silliest thing Ive ever heard. A combination of Nuke and Thermo energy could reduce our dependency on oil to almost nothing. Coal has been turned into diesel fuel and alge can be used to make biodiesel.

New tech like pebble bed reactors which do not use enriched uranium, are designed so that they can never over heat. A combination of safe fuel, lost cost structures and long term energy production could make Electricity almost free. But who wants that?


Why is it the silliest thing you've ever heard. If you take enough thermo operations in a given area, that will cool the magma in that area.

We're talking large scale here. On a scale large enough to power the worlds energy needs. The energy has to come from somewhere and there is almost always a cost of some sort. Though I personally say go for it.

Yellowstone could probaly provide the energy for the worlds needs big time, of course if you were to cause an EEE by unbalcing the magma coure due to not doing enoug research in the first place...

I was told this by an Engineer after I was ranting that we should be doing large scale thermoenergy ops in BC, so?
 
I cant see humans sapping enough energy from the earths core to make a difference. The mass and energy in the core is beyond comprehension.
 
Here's a better idea..

STOP using so damned much fuel!!!

You don't need an escalade to drop the kids off at daycare.

The SUV craze is insane, and it just keeps getting worse and worse. People keep buying bigger and bigger gas hogs that are not required for any use that they have.

Yuppie soccer moms driving HUGE 4X4 guzzlers.......

I reckon you should need a PERMIT to purchase a 4x4... like prove a need for one.

I think we should quit bitchin about the "Fuel Crisis" and just stop using it as much as we can.

Fuel is eexpensive here in AUS, and it's hard to find a V8 here... although it's getting worse here too...
 
Fuel is eexpensive here in AUS, and it's hard to find a V8 here... although it's getting worse here too...

I can buy a 3500 Chevy for 60K- Have it imported to AUS for about 10K and sell it there for 100K.

The demand for big trucks there is insane. Thats why your govenrment has gone to great lenghts to stop imports of those big trucks.
 
MikeFlynn74 said:
I can buy a 3500 Chevy for 60K- Have it imported to AUS for about 10K and sell it there for 100K.

The demand for big trucks there is insane. Thats why your govenrment has gone to great lenghts to stop imports of those big trucks.

Too bad you have to spend $30K to convert it to right hand drive, or it cannot be road registered.

Yes there is a demand here for big trucks... Two reasons for that:

#1. Big powerful trucks are not manufactured here and a Toyota Lancruiser that can perform this work cost well over $100K. Some people do need that much power to pull Horse floats etc and an imported 3500 is a good option.

#2. There are stupid Yuppie Soccer Moms here that drive ridiculous SUV's that never leave the highway as well.

USA doesn't have the market cornered on wasting fuel.. but they are the world leaders...

I am not having a go at USA, it just seems that they consume a LOT more fuel than is required, and then ***** about the price...
 
Just remember that you're stats are for corn-based ethanol. Ethanol itself isn't really the problem. It's planting so much damn corn to get very little enegry out of it. Things like sugarcane and switchgrass have a much higher yield. However, the government loves to hand out those farm subsidies to the midwest where you can't grow sugarcane or switchgrass...
 
The usage rant would be fine if supply was the driving factor of todays costs but at this time it really isn't. If we used less then they would just produce less and we would still be in the same situation. This price hike is being blamed on the weak U.S. Dollar.....dann I thought this thread was about ethanol.....:)
 
Even "funnier" are the waste wood to ethanol bunch. I live in lumber country & there AIN'T no waste wood. The mill strips the bark & sells it, trims the log rectangular and sells the slabs, cuts the lumber, then screens the shavings & sawdust and sells both products. I think they even sell the scrapings from the air filters & floor sweepings! If they could can the pine scent, they'd sell that too.

Most logging companies chip the slash (branches too small to make logs) and sell that.

With the housing down turn, companies are trucking "waste wood" from Canada to keep their "waste wood" companies running!
 
On top of the fact that producing ethanol is energy negative, don't' they make it via a fermentation ?

Doesn't this fermentation add CO2 into the atmosphere ? This whole carbon dioxide causing global warming is a hoax on a much grander scale than just ethanol.
 
Personally I think ethanol is a scam forced upon us by the large ag businesses and their Washington lobby. It's a total waste of resources. Biodiesel and hydrogen fuel cells is where we should be investing dollars.
 
skinfiddler said:
Drill, refine, repeat.

Give us the space back for hops and grain.

I don't really think this is the answer either. I for one don't want to be always answering to the same 5 Big-Oil Businesses the rest of my life, and frankly i don't want their dirty drills in anymore pristine natural environments then they have already destroyed.

I'm not trying to be ultra liberal or enviro or something, but there is so many other options out there that don't involved doing that type of destruction. And I can't stand the profits they're turning right now too!
 
david_42 said:
Even "funnier" are the waste wood to ethanol bunch. I live in lumber country & there AIN'T no waste wood. The mill strips the bark & sells it, trims the log rectangular and sells the slabs, cuts the lumber, then screens the shavings & sawdust and sells both products. I think they even sell the scrapings from the air filters & floor sweepings! If they could can the pine scent, they'd sell that too.

Most logging companies chip the slash (branches too small to make logs) and sell that.

With the housing down turn, companies are trucking "waste wood" from Canada to keep their "waste wood" companies running!
If you're referring to my post, I wasn't talking about waste wood on a commercial scale. I was talking about individuals fermenting and distilling their own fuel, with yard waste, etc. I mentioned sawdust, because I do wood working and have an abundance of it laying around.
 
Klainmeister said:
I don't really think this is the answer either. I for one don't want to be always answering to the same 5 Big-Oil Businesses the rest of my life, and frankly i don't want their dirty drills in anymore pristine natural environments then they have already destroyed.

I'm not trying to be ultra liberal or enviro or something, but there is so many other options out there that don't involved doing that type of destruction. And I can't stand the profits they're turning right now too!


You will be anyway. Who do you think is positioning themselves to provide any different forms of energy.

To give that dead mare another whack: There is NOTHING on the horizon that will replace the economic value of fossil fuels. New sources of oil and improvements in drilling and refinement are happening all the time, much faster than the present "alternatives." I would drill through the frakin Caribou for oil if it meant moving our dependence fromt he Bel-Arabs.
 
wihophead said:
The usage rant would be fine if supply was the driving factor of todays costs but at this time it really isn't. If we used less then they would just produce less and we would still be in the same situation. This price hike is being blamed on the weak U.S. Dollar.....dann I thought this thread was about ethanol.....:)

It wasn't really a rant.. but the point I was trying to make is that if everyone worldwide did everything they could to reduce consumption, then we would have a reason to complain. Get rid of the gas guzzling Escalade and drive a new Turbo Diesel Golf that uses less than HALF of the fuel, and your fuel prices go down by 50%. Not only do you save a lot of money, but you hopefully make the finite amount of oil that the earth can supply last twice as long.

I am no tree hugger or eco fanatic. I just don't see a reason to burn twice as much fuel as required to do the same job. It wastes my money, it wastes a non renewable resource, it puts more money in the overflowing pockets of the robber baron oil companies, and it's just not a smart thing to do.

I feel the same way about water. We live on the dryest continent, and I still see people wasting water by try to keep their lawns alive. At least water is renewable...

Back to the Ethanol discussion.
 
Back
Top