Suggestion/advice for friends beer

[NY_HomeBrew_Student]

Hi all,

Wasn't sure where to post this but figured I'd just take a shot and go with it;

Several of my friends and family members have expressed to me that they would like a certain style of beer that I am have yet to brew for our 4th of July party. (I know it is months away but I figured the more time I have the better).

9 of the 10 of them would like some kind of Belgian influenced beer. Most enjoy Franziskaner, half drink Blue Moon as a fall back beer, a few enjoy Belgian pale ales, some drink Leffe, and the majority of them enjoy wheat beers throughout the year.

I've done plenty of research to try to get an idea but I would like to know what your opinions/suggestions are for style (leaning towards a Belgian pale ale), yeast (possibly using Safbrew T-58), and grain bill/recipe.

Here are some of the HBT recipes that I am considering but would like to know if there is a must brew Belgian style recipe for my friends.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f71/belgian-pale-ale-117569/

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f71/blue-balls-belgian-wit-blue-moon-clone-24978/

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f71/revvys-belgian-blonde-leffe-clone-202852/

I brew all grain and would prefer to use dry yeast for my first attempt at a Belgian style beer. Also, any tips for a suggested yeast would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance for any posts/replies!

 

[Cyclman]

I brewed this for the big brew day, it was delicious and a style pretty much everyone likes: https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/recipe/big-brew-2013-recipe-more-fun-blonde/

 

[NY_HomeBrew_Student]

I brewed this for the big brew day, it was delicious and a style pretty much everyone likes: https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/recipe/big-brew-2013-recipe-more-fun-blonde/

Pretty interesting recipe and thankful for the details. Any thoughts on a dry yeast substitute?

 

[Cyclman]

I would think you'd be fine with T-58.

 

[NY_HomeBrew_Student]

Thanks Cyclman,

That yeast strain is available at my LHBS so I'll probably use that. I appreciate the input.

 

[JimRausch]

If you've read the BlueMoon thread then you realize that it really isn't a Belgian. Tasty, yes. Belgian, no.
I'm not a big fan of that Belgian yeast funk, but in December did two batches with Danstar Belle Saison. The funk is there, but subdued. And it was a real active yeast, doing a good job on both a Belgian Blonde and a Tripel. So, here's my .02- consider that one.
***
Reread your initial post- I'm not sure if the Blue Moon post you mentioned is the one I'm talking about. Check out Wayne's Blue Moon thread. He helped design that beer back in the day. Just be prepared to spend some time- it's about 30 pages long!

 

[unionrdr]

I have the best of BYO's 250 Classic Clone recipes,AG & E/SG. Any particular Belgian or Belgian inspired one you want? Here's a few it lists;
DeuS (Belgium)
Hennepin (Ommegang)
Duvel-Belgium
Farmhouse Summer Ale-Flying Fish
Saison Belgian style farmhouse-New Belgium
Abbey Ale-Ommegang
Orval Trappist Ale-Belgium
Westmalle Trippel-Belgium
Grand Cru-BJ's Restaurant
Millenium Ale-BJ's Restaurant
Witte-Ommegang
Devotion Ale-Lost Abbe
Trippel-Allagash Brewing
St Bernardus Abt 12 60th anniversary addition-Belgium
...just to name a few. There are more.

 

[NY_HomeBrew_Student]

If you've read the BlueMoon thread then you realize that it really isn't a Belgian. Tasty, yes. Belgian, no.
I'm not a big fan of that Belgian yeast funk, but in December did two batches with Danstar Belle Saison. The funk is there, but subdued. And it was a real active yeast, doing a good job on both a Belgian Blonde and a Tripel. So, here's my .02- consider that one.
***
Reread your initial post- I'm not sure if the Blue Moon post you mentioned is the one I'm talking about. Check out Wayne's Blue Moon thread. He helped design that beer back in the day. Just be prepared to spend some time- it's about 30 pages long!

I haven't read that Blue Moon thread but I have read that it isn't a Belgian. I was just using this as an example of what some of my friends like to drink. A big reason why I started this thread is because I do not drink the same kinds of beer that they enjoy but do want to be able to brew one for them. Most of them have enjoyed the beers that I brew even though they are their favorite styles.

I know what you mean about the unique flavors that Belgian yeasts tend to add to the beer and I share that feeling. I can still enjoy them from time to time but very rarely seek out a beer with those flavor profiles.

I'll have to do some reading about the Danstar Belle Saison yeast that you suggested. A subtle Belgian yeast flavor is probably what I am looking for.

Any tips on fermentation temperatures for the Danstar Belle Saison?

Thanks again!

 

[NY_HomeBrew_Student]

I have the best of BYO's 250 Classic Clone recipes,AG & E/SG. Any particular Belgian or Belgian inspired one you want? Here's a few it lists

...just to name a few. There are more.

I'm not really sure about a specific style that I would prefer to brew but I think a beer that is on the lighter side (color), bitterness/hop flavor comparable to a pale ale, some malt character to compliment but not dominate, with mid gravity (5%abv), and a subtle Belgian yeast flavor is what I may be looking for.

Does that profile fit a style? Hope this helps and thank you in advance!

 

[NY_HomeBrew_Student]

Making a trip shortly to the beverage center to find a few commercial Belgian Pale Ales to see if that style would be something that my friends would enjoy.

Any suggestions on what I should pick up or stay away from?

 

[Schol-R-LEA]

Take a look at the fruit lambics and the geuzes. While it is probably not a style you'd want to try brewing without setting aside a separate fermenter - like all lambics, they require a mix of microflora for an authentic duplication, and strictly speaking can only really be made in a limited region - they may inform your choices regarding other styles.

If they like Blue Moon, then the witbiers are a good bet; Blue Moon is a of which Blue Moon is a milder version of a wit (by MillerCoors, but still, a decent interpretation of the style). The classic example of the style is Hoegaarden Original White, which is the one responsible for reviving the style.

Given the event you'll be brewing for, the Trappists are probably not the best choice, but you certainly will want to try them anyway. Unfortunately, the one which is generally considered best, Westvletteren 12, can't be bought for love or money in the US (at least not legitimately); it is only available for purchase directly from the monastery, and (IIRC) they only allow 12 bottles a year per visitor. A much more approachable Trappist is Chimay, which has three different brews available in the US - Cinq Cents, a light colored, very high gravity beer (trippel) with a gold label; Première, a brown high-gravity (Dubbel) ale with a red label; and Grande Reserve, another brown ale in a blue label (a fourth, Golden, is a lower gravity beer for everyday consumption by the monks, and is only available in limited quantities outside of the monastery).

One Trappist that would be interest in the summer is Orval, which is lighter in body than most of the other monastic ales. It is highly hopped, and has strong citrus notes. It tends to be a love-it-or-hate-it sort of beer.

Given that it is a summertime event, the natural choice would be saison, a style traditionally brewed at the end of the brewing season (mid-May) for summer consumption. Saisons tend to be orange colored - not amber, but orange - and well-carbonated, but they are full-strength ales with original gravities between 1.048 and 1.065. They are fermented with a higher temperature ale yeast than most, often thriving in temperatures up to 85 deg. F. They are really an excellent summer beer, and Saison Dupont is the classic example of the style.

 

[stpug]

Several of my friends and family members have expressed to me that they would like a certain style of beer that I am have yet to brew for our 4th of July party.

9 of the 10 of them would like some kind of Belgian influenced beer. Most enjoy Franziskaner, half drink Blue Moon as a fall back beer, a few enjoy Belgian pale ales, some drink Leffe, and the majority of them enjoy wheat beers throughout the year.

1. You're brewing a beer for friends and family that they'll want to drink
2. They (think) they want a belgian-influenced beer
3. Most of them like German Wheat Beers (yeast forward banana, clove, spice)
4. Half like Blue Moon, a wheat-based belgian beer (citrus and spice)
5. A few like Belgian pale ales (light fruit and spice balanced with hops)
6. Some drink Leffe Blonde? (light abbey ale but now owned by AB)
7. Most enjoy wheat beers (american hefeweizens?)

First and foremost, you're brewing a beer for a variety of folks and you'd like them to like your beer enough that they'll drink it. You have to balance the most adventurous drinkers with the most timid drinkers.

Next, from the list of beers you gave, I see a definite gravitation towards wheat-based beers. Not only that, but wheat beers that have something going on in them more than the subdued tastes of american wheat beers.

Next, you're brewing for July 4th, and most places are fairly warm on July 4th. In other words, you're not aiming for a big 9% beer but something that much more quaffable. Something that you can have several at a party and not be sloshed.

Given the criteria, as I see them, I would aim for a beer around 5% ABV (maybe a touch higher OR a touch lower). They seem to like the strong "additional" characteristics that are often times found in wheat beers. Since I don't think you'll find a happy marriage between traditional german hefe yeast and belgian spice additions, I would suggest choosing one style and going with it. If I had to pick a drink for a party that most folks would like, given your criteria, I would choose a witbier. Hitting an ~5% witbier is perfectly to style. I find average-weight wits to be refreshing on hot days, and can certainly drink a few without being too buzzed. You can easily use a low flocculating wheat beer or witbier dry yeast, and you can turn the beer around really fast (10 days even).

Of course, you could just as easily go with a german wheat beer and it seems like most folks would be easily as happy. They can be turned around as quickly and no worries about cloudy beer (just like the wit). They can also be quite refreshing on hot days without knocking someone over with their ABV.

Finally, a belgian pale ale could be a hit if you find a nice restrained belgian strain to ferment it with. Generally speaking, I think you'll be a little higher in ABV (5.5-6% maybe) and won't be turning it around quite as quickly (although 3 weeks would be plenty). My only concern would be making it too big; not quaffable enough; too belgiany for folks who have not clearly stated they love belgian yeast characteristics; and having a longer turn around. If you do go this route, you'll want to strongly consider the yeast you use. I've used Antwerp Ale yeast a couple times and was bummed at the lightness of the belgian characeristics, HOWEVER it might be exactly what you're looking for in your belgian beer. Granted, it's a liquid strain and not always readily available.

HTH!

 

[NY_HomeBrew_Student]

Schol-R-LEA,

Thanks for your awesome post. I definitely think a saison is a good summertime event beer. I'll have to do some research tonight on the Saison Dupont. I'm not sure how many of my friends and family have had one before but that may be a good thing.

Thanks again for the post.

 

[NY_HomeBrew_Student]

stpug,

Wow....just wow. That post was well above and beyond anything I was anticipating for a response.

I think you convinced me to brew at least a witbier for the party. It seems to fit a lot of the criteria that I am looking for and is a style that I know my friends and family would enjoy. Any suggestions on a particular yeast strain or recipe?

I am still considering brewing a Belgian Pale Ale in addition to the witbier and will be doing some research on Antwerp Ale yeast that you mentioned. I feel like that may be the perfect strain for my friends and family.

Thanks again stpug. Your post was exactly what I needed.

 

[stpug]

I think you convinced me to brew at least a witbier for the party. It seems to fit a lot of the criteria that I am looking for and is a style that I know my friends and family would enjoy. Any suggestions on a particular yeast strain or recipe?

I am still considering brewing a Belgian Pale Ale in addition to the witbier and will be doing some research on Antwerp Ale yeast that you mentioned. I feel like that may be the perfect strain for my friends and family.

I have only ever used Brewferm Blanche Ale yeast in a witbier. It is a dry yeast, and perfect for a simple rehydrate and pitch. It is low flocculant and a good attenuator. It's krausen sticks around for a long time so you'll either want to rack from underneath it or jostle the fermenter a little bit to help encourage it to drop. It's "belgian" characteristics are very mild; no funk; no fruit; very mild spice; otherwise a fairly clean strain. Again, it was a little on the "too clean" side for me. I was hoping for a little more spice when I brewed mine. BUT, I haven't given up on it. In fact I'm planning a wit in a couple weeks and am looking at using it again

I like your style - brew 2 beers not 1

I should mention that my turn around times I mentioned above are kegged turnaround. If you're bottling then you have to account for carbonation time which should be minimum 15 days if not closer to 20 at room temps.

 

[NTexBrewer]

I love belgian wit biers and have brewed two and have a 3rd fermenting now. This is a perfect summer beer. The thing I have notice with my wits is that the orange/coriander flavor fades over time so it is best to drink it fresh.

Look also for Farmhouse Saisons, or sometimes called Farmhouse Ale. Not always the case but usually farmhouse saisons are lower in ABV, compared to most Saisons, which again is good for summer brews. Blue Moon makes a Farmhouse Ale, called Short Straw which is not bad.

If you don't want a lot of the fruity esters to be produced than ferment on the cooler side.

Not to change things up but two other summer brews that I got great feedback from people was a Dark Wheat and a Cream Ale. Dark wheat throws people off because they are expecting something heavy when it is really light and refreshing. I did a Cream Ale with Kolsch yeast for 4th of July last year which turned out very good and easy drinking.

 

[NY_HomeBrew_Student]

So I think I will base my wheat beer off of BierMuncher's Recipe

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f71/blue-balls-belgian-wit-blue-moon-clone-24978/

Recipe Type: All Grain
Yeast: White Labs400
Yeast Starter: Yes
Batch Size (Gallons): 5.5
Original Gravity: 1.038
Final Gravity: 1.007
IBU: 17
Boiling Time (Minutes): 70
Color: 4.4 SRM
Primary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): 7
Secondary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): 5

Recipe: Belgian Wit
Brewer: BierMuncher
Style: Witbier
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (47.0) Awesome taste. Add a slice of orange and people will be asking how you bought a keg of Blue Moon.Distinctive, light wheat beer with a hint of spice. The head is very white and lasts a long time. This is a light, spicy session ale. Perfect for the summer.

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 5.20 gal
Boil Size: 6.50 gal
Estimated OG: 1.038 SG
Estimated Color: 4.4 SRM
Name: Belgian_Wit_Color.jpg Views: 23587 Size: 777 Bytes
Estimated IBU: 17.0 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
4.50 lb Pale Malt Crisp (UK) (3.0 SRM)
4.50 lb Wheat, Flaked (1.6 SRM)
1.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00%] (60 min)
0.75 oz Coriander Seed (Boil 5.0 min)
0.75 oz Orange Peel, Bitter (Boil 5.0 min)
1 Pkgs Belgian Witbier (White Labs #400)


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body
Total Grain Weight: 9.00 lb

My changes will be something similar to this:

5# Pale 2 Row
5# Flaked Wheat

1oz (60 min) East Kent (5.0%) or Willamette (4.9%) (I have over a lb of the Willamette)
0.75-1 oz Coriander Seed (Boil 5.0 min)
0.75-1 oz Orange Peel, Bitter (Boil 5.0 min)

Safbrew T-58 Ale Yeast or another dry yeast?

Would love any kind of feed back...

1oz too much for the coriander or orange peel? Hop preference? Too simple of a grain bill? Better yeast alternative?

Possibly splitting this batch with Brewferm Blanche Ale yeast mentioned above by stpug or brewing an entirely different batch with it.

Thanks in advance!

 

[stpug]

I just finished a wit beer (well, it's still in the fermenter but I've just sampled it today) and I found 0.50 oz Indian coriander (pulsed in a coffee grinder) to be too much. I used a mix of dry orange peel but it all amounted to 0.85 oz, and it seems about right. All orange and coriander was added at flameout; cooled to 170F; and steeped for 30 minutes. My tasting notes were that I would reduce the coriander to 0.35-0.40 oz next time. Batch size is 5.25G.

In addition to the spices, I added 0.5 oz sterling (saaz) for the steep. It was a good addition.

During the hellacious brew day that it was, I forgot my small 0.2 oz fresh ginger addition. Oh well, next time I guess. I used the same small addition last time and it was nice.

I think your hop amounts seem very reasonable, and the variety choice is fine for a 60 minute addition but I wouldn't use Willamette for a late addition in a wit.

I've never used t-58 but the little bit of reading I've done on it doesn't make it sound very nice for a wit; then again I'm not aware of another dry yeast (aside from brewferm blanche) that would be good. If you're going to split the batch the you might consider Blanche and danstar belle saison (kept in the low temperature range).

Hope this helps.