Substituting LME

[ArizonaJones]

Hi all. I was planning on making a recipe for Anchor's 1995 holiday ale soon (I got the recipe from an old post here: Anchor Steam Christmas ales clone recipes?) The one ingredient that I cant find at a local store is the pale liquid malt extract, Alexander's brand or otherwise. A guy at the supply store near me recommended using Muntons maris otter liquid malt extract as a substitute would work. But I noticed when I got home that the Muntons tin is only 3.25 lb and the recipe calls for 4 lb of pale extract.

Do you think using that smaller amount of maris otter will still work for that Anchor recipe? I don't really know how I would measure out 0.75 lb more of it from a second can and then store the rest after. Or should I bite the bullet and order the Alexanders from somewhere online? I already have all the other ingredients.

Appreciate the help in advance.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

The original recipe calls for

...
4.5# Muntons Extra Light DME (60 mins)
4# Alexanders Pale LME (60 mins)
...

Does the DME you have come in 5 lb, 3 lb, and/or 1 lb packages? If so, is there an "extra" 1/2 lb of DME in one of the packages?

You could add the "extra" 1/2 lb DME in place of the 3/4 lb of LME.

1/2 lb of DME is roughly 22 (44 * .5) "gravity points", 3/4 lb of LME is roughly 27 (36 * .75) "gravity points". So for a five gallon batch, this substitution would lower OG by 1 (27 - 22 / 5).

 

[IslandLizard]

It will be fine. You can make up the difference by adding some DME (=Dry Malt Extract, a powder).
Many extract recipes that use cans of LME include some DME to arrive at the intended recipe's gravity.

Main reason is LME comes in cans of certain volumes. Fractional cans don't exist, while once a can is opened it should be stored in the fridge and used up within a few weeks.

DME also stores a lot better as long as it's kept dry and in its original plastic bag. Cut a corner off the bag to dispense, then reseal by folding over the open flap a few times and tape it down.

If you're serious about brewing, keep some DME on hand. Buying 3 pound bags instead of 1 pound bags may save some money.

Use DME at a ratio of 0.82 of LME.
https://www.brewersfriend.com/lme-dme-conversion-calculator/

 

[IslandLizard]

Maris Otter is a type (variety) of barley with a richer, maltier flavor than typical run of the mill barleys used in beer.

In your case the extra flavor and somewhat darker color is beneficial for a Seasonal Ale. You're all set to brew!

Just turn the heat off before adding the LME. Then stir well, while scraping the bottom, making sure it's all dissolved before turning the heat back on. That heavy syrup tends to sink and stick to the bottom of your kettle like glue.
There are only few things worse than scorched malt in your beer.

 

[ArizonaJones]

The original recipe calls for



Does the DME you have come in 5 lb, 3 lb, and/or 1 lb packages? If so, is there an "extra" 1/2 lb of DME in one of the packages?

You could add the "extra" 1/2 lb DME in place of the 3/4 lb of LME.

1/2 lb of DME is roughly 22 (44 * .5) "gravity points", 3/4 lb of LME is roughly 27 (36 * .75) "gravity points". So for a five gallon batch, this substitution would lower OG by 1 (27 - 22 / 5).

Regarding the DME, yes! I have one bag of 3lb and two 1lb bags. So using your suggestion, yes I could definitely use all the DME I have to make up for the LME. The calculations are duly noted as well. Thank you.

 

[ArizonaJones]

It will be fine. You can make up the difference by adding some DME (=Dry Malt Extract, a powder).
Many extract recipes that use cans of LME include some DME to arrive at the intended recipe's gravity.

Main reason is LME comes in cans of certain volumes. Fractional cans don't exist, while once a can is opened it should be stored in the fridge and used up within a few weeks.

DME also stores a lot better as long as it's kept dry and in its original plastic bag. Cut a corner off the bag to dispense, then reseal by folding over the open flap a few times and tape it down.

If you're serious about brewing, keep some DME on hand. Buying 3 pound bags instead of 1 pound bags may save some money.

Use DME at a ratio of 0.82 of LME.
https://www.brewersfriend.com/lme-dme-conversion-calculator/

These are all good points, thank you, especially the conversion calculator. This will only be the third batch I've made on my own so while I'm embracing the challenge, I want to make sure i got everything right too.

 

[ArizonaJones]

Maris Otter is a type (variety) of barley with a richer, maltier flavor than typical run of the mill barleys used in beer.

In your case the extra flavor and somewhat darker color is beneficial for a Seasonal Ale. You're all set to brew!

Just turn the heat off before adding the LME. Then stir well, while scraping the bottom, making sure it's all dissolved before turning the heat back on. That heavy syrup tends to sink and stick to the bottom of your kettle like glue.
There are only few things worse than scorched malt in your beer.

Thank you for this and the tips!

 

[IslandLizard]

These are all good points, thank you, especially the conversion calculator. This will only be the third batch I've made on my own so while I'm embracing the challenge, I want to make sure i got everything right too.

Most malt ingredients can be substituted for something similar. There's quite a bit of freedom there, while many recipes can actually be improved by using different or fresher malt extracts.

Freshness of malt extracts is important, more so for liquid ones than powder.
I have used DME that (unintentionally) ended up being 10 years old. Yup, got hard as a brick, and was never opened. Smashed it up and used it for yeast starters. Tasted A-OK, no staleness, no off flavors.

Some brew stores sell bulk LME, poured from large plastic drums. You don't even need to supplement with DME. When I was brewing extract, that was the best source I had, it was very fresh, they went through it fast, and at $2.60 a pound very reasonable.

I made some great beer with that, including a Christmas Ale (a Great Lakes clone) that my wife still claims beat any other seasonal out there, only 2nd to the original Great Lakes Christmas Ale, 10-12 years back. Their versions since have been hit and miss, as have mine...

A few times since I've brewed it as all grain, but never quite struck that kind of magic again. Creating the right balance of flavors and aromas is akin pure wizardry. Or sheer luck.

 

[IslandLizard]

And uh, skip that secondary...
Leave it in your primary for a month, don't open it up, don't tinker with it. Then package.

 

[ArizonaJones]

And uh, skip that secondary...
Leave it in your primary for a month, don't open it up, don't tinker with it. Then package.

Interesting point on leaving the batch in the primary and not using a secondary (We have an "Ale Pale" bucket that we would use as the primary.) I know that's a point of debate, using a secondary or not. Is that your preference in general or something you do with specific styles? Curious!

 

[IslandLizard]

Interesting point on leaving the batch in the primary and not using a secondary (We have an "Ale Pale" bucket that we would use as the primary.) I know that's a point of debate, using a secondary or not. Is that your preference in general or something you do with specific styles? Curious!

Unless you can transfer to a secondary without introducing air (oxygen, actually) to the beer, I'd say skip it.

There's nothing transferring to a secondary fixes, while it increases oxidation and risk of infection, neither beneficial to beer. There are a few exceptions, but none apply to most run of the mill beers. Two of the most notable exceptions are bulk aging past 2 months and mixed fermentations (e.g., sours).

It applies to every style.

For peace of mind, all your trub and the majority of suspended yeast will start to precipitate when active fermentation completes. Depending on the beer, give it a week (or better, 2 to 4 weeks) after visible fermentation has ceased and you should have clear beer by then.

Put a flow-inverter tippy on the bottom of the siphon or cane. Rack/siphon to a keg or bottling bucket starting from the middle of the fermenter, between the trub layer and the beer surface. As the level drops lower the cane. When there's an inch or 2 of beer left, tilt the fermenter slowly toward the side the cane is on, to keep the siphoning well deep. Keep the tippy above the trub. Stop the transfer as soon as you start sucking air or yeast/trub.

 

[ArizonaJones]

Unless you can transfer to a secondary without introducing air (oxygen, actually) to the beer, I'd say skip it.

There's nothing transferring to a secondary fixes, while it increases oxidation and risk of infection, neither beneficial to beer. There are a few exceptions, but none apply to most run of the mill beers. Two of the most notable exceptions are bulk aging past 2 months and mixed fermentations (e.g., sours).

It applies to every style.

For peace of mind, all your trub and the majority of suspended yeast will start to precipitate when active fermentation completes. Depending on the beer, give it a week (or better, 2 to 4 weeks) after visible fermentation has ceased and you should have clear beer by then.

Put a flow-inverter tippy on the bottom of the siphon or cane. Rack/siphon to a keg or bottling bucket starting from the middle of the fermenter, between the trub layer and the beer surface. As the level drops lower the cane. When there's an inch or 2 of beer left, tilt the fermenter slowly toward the side the cane is on, to keep the siphoning well deep. Keep the tippy above the trub. Stop the transfer as soon as you start sucking air or yeast/trub.

Interesting! I'm learning a lot in this thread and I appreciate your posts. Like I said I'm still a little new to this process so anything like this is appreciated

 

[IslandLizard]

Interesting! I'm learning a lot in this thread and I appreciate your posts. Like I said I'm still a little new to this process so anything like this is appreciated

Keep reading around, there are tons of ideas and small improvements that will make your brewing process easier and your beer better.

Here's a short list of musts, IMO. In brewing process order, not importance:

1. Use decent or tested recipes. Read feedback on them, and implement improvements if they make sense.
2. Use good, fresh ingredients.
3. Clean your equipment. Don't forget the valves. Pay special attention to everything used on the cold side.
4. Water is important, know her quality; de-chlorinate with Campden.
5. (Re-)sanitize everything on the cold side, and right before use.
6. Aerate/oxygenate chilled wort.
7. Pitch healthy yeast and the estimated amount of cells needed.
8. Control fermentation temps. Especially during the height of fermentation, the first few days to a week.
9. Prevent air/oxygen exposure once fermentation has started.
10. Omit secondaries (with very few exceptions).
11. Leave in fermenter for 2-4 weeks after yeast has dropped, to condition out. There can be some exceptions.
12. Transfer gently and carefully to bottling bucket, or into 100% liquid pre-purged kegs.