Stuck Fermentation/No Activity after 48hrs.......please HELP!!!!!!

wps-hbt
Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
N

naderchaser

Active Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2010
Messages
38
Reaction score
0
Location
Idaho
This last Sunday, I repeated a IIPA recipie that I had brewed a few months ago with no problem. Turned out fantastic, actually.
The only things I changed on this go-around was that I added .25 lbs of Carapils, and added 1oz of Falconers Flight during the boil.
Preboil gravity was 1.055
OG was 1.072.

I made sure to sanitize very well, and this is only the second brew with all my new equipment so there shouldn't be a big infection risk. I cooled the wort down to 74 degrees, and shook it around to aerate it prior to pitching (don't have a whisk/aquarium pump available). I pitched 2 vials of WLP001 at around 72 degrees in the carboy (both vials were warmed to room temp before pitching). One of the vials seemed to be about half as full as the other, but both looked healthy.

Well, here we are roughly 60 hrs later, and there has been no activity, no krausen forming. When I first pitched, I moved the carboy to my basement which is more consistent in terms of temp. The first 24 hours were spent at 64-66 degrees.....a bit too cool for the WLP001, but I figured it would just get of to a slower start. After 2 days of no activity, I put a space heater down there to warm it up to 72 degrees, which it has been sitting at for 12+ hrs....and still no activity.

I can see at the bottom of the carboy, on top of the hop trub there looks to be a yeast cake just sitting there, but no krausen or activity as of this morning.

What can/should I do here? I ordered the vial from Austin Home Brew (I live in Idaho) and did order the "cold pack" with it. The were still cool to the touch when I received them, but they were not cold. After 60hrs, even if there were infections of some sort, I would should still be getting some sort of activity. Is my yeast dead? I don't have a LHBS near, so I may be S.O.L. on this one.
Any advice/experience is appreciated as this one has me worried. Thnx! :mug:

EDIT:
I sanitized my carboy with Star San. Immediatley prior to racking from kettle, I drained the star san out of the carboy, but did not rinse it. I didn't rack on top of any existing liquid, but there was still foam in the carboy. Could this have killed the yeast?
 
What's your current gravity?

One thing to realize is that it's quite common for yeast to take 2-3 days to get going, it's called lag time.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/fermentation-can-take-24-72-hrs-show-visible-signs-43635/, and by visible signs we don't necessarily mean a bubbling airlock. it means gravity reading

It IS a sticky at the top of the beginners forum for a reason, afterall. ;)

I would wait 72 hours and take a gravity reading and see what's going on.
 
I haven't taken a gravity reading yet, simply because I brewed this exact same beer 2 months ago, and I had visible activity within 24 hrs, and vigourous activity within 72 hrs. This time around....nothing.

Revvy, I appreciate the link. I checked around and read a bunch of that last night, but I just wanted to get some real-time feedback from more experienced brewers that have hopefully had the same problem with a bigger beer.

Edit to add:
I also used 14oz of corn sugar to this batch. I did the same thing last batch, with no problems but wasn't sure if this could be some of the problem???????
 
I think ideally with a 1.072 beer you'd make a starter, but with 2 vials, maybe you're OK. Plus, you said you made this before the same way, so evidently, it works.

I'd also say give it some time. My apfelwein took a week just to get positive pressure on the airlock, and bubbling started a week after that.

Is there positive pressure on the airlock (i.e. unequal liquid levels, assuming you have a 1-piece airlock)?
 
Here's an idea... I pitched 2.5 weeks ago and I havn't even looked at the bucket yet. This weekend I'll see if it is ready to bottle. Don't babysit the yeast - they'll hook you up with some brew if you just leave them alone. You did everything right, right? They'll do everything right in return.
 
naderchaser said:
I haven't taken a gravity reading yet, simply because I brewed this exact same beer 2 months ago, and I had visible activity within 24 hrs, and vigourous activity within 72 hrs. This time around....nothing.
Click to expand...

Then you honestly don't know if you have a stuck fermentation or not. Airlocks lie, so does krausen. The ONLY thing that counts is numbers on the hydromter.

And just because your batch behaved "x" way LAST TIME doesn't mean there's anything wrong this time, simply because it is acting differentl, you should NEVER assume all of them will. Nor should you worry if it doesn't.

There is nothing "typical" in brewing...every fermentation is different, and should not be used to compare one with another...you can't do that.

No two fermentations are ever exactly the same.

When we are dealing with living creatures, there is a wild card factor in play..Just like with other animals, including humans...No two behave the same.

You can split a batch in half put them in 2 identical carboys, and pitch equal amounts of yeast from the same starter...and have them act completely differently...for some reason on a subatomic level...think about it...yeasties are small...1 degree difference in temp to us, could be a 50 degree difference to them...one fermenter can be a couple degrees warmer because it's closer to a vent all the way across the room and the yeasties take off...

Someone, Grinder I think posted a pic once of 2 carboys touching each other, and one one of the carboys the krausen had formed only on the side that touched the other carboy...probably reacting to the heat of the first fermentation....but it was like symbiotic or something..

I find there is little "normal" in brewing, every fermentation has a wildcard factor from dealing with the yeasties.

Hydromters are the only way to know what your beer is doing.
 
Thanks for the replies everyone.

I was initially worried that the Star San foam that I racked onto had somehow killed the yeast. I didn't use Star San on the last identical batch (new carboy, simple cleaning) and that batch turned out fantastic. This time, I did use Star San.

I'm just trying to narrow down the variables before I start taking action to correct this potentially stuck fermentation.

On the bottom of the carboy on top of the hop trub, I can see the yeast cake (prob 1/4" thick). It seems to be more "in suspension" now that I warmed it up to 72 degrees, FWIW.

Edit:
Also, I didn't use a 3 piece airlock on this one like I did last time. The last batch blew the airlock all over the room, so this time i'm using a blowoff tube into a bucket of Star San/Water.
 
Star san won't affect it at all. Take a gravity reading tomorrow. I've had fermentations that showed no signs that anything was going on. Low and behold, the hydro reading said it had been fermenting.
 
Starsan doesn't kill yeast, it breaks down to become food for the yeast which helps them do their job.

I hate to harp on this, but you're trying to "narrow down variables" when you don't know if you even have a problem or not.

1) you're not waiting the 72 hours that yeast sometimes takes before it starts.

2) You're using visual cues rather than taking a grav reading and thinking you have a problem....when the only problem is using "activity" in whatever definition you believe it is, as your gauge....not the one tool that will tell you if you have fermentation or not.

Unless you take a gravity reading you don't know what's really going on, not by airlock bubbling or by krausen formation. Neither of those signs are effective, they don't tell you exactly where on the fermentation process you are.

Krausen can come and go even if the yeast are still fermenting away, or they can linger for weeks even though the hydrometer shows fermentation is long over.

And airlocks sometimes bubble or they don't. And airlock is a valve, a vent to release excess co2...NOT a fermentation gauge.

Fermentation is not always "dynamic," just because you don't SEE anything happening, doesn't mean that any-thing's wrong,, and also doesn't mean that the yeast are still not working diligently away, doing what they've been doing for over 4,000 years.

That's why you need to take a gravity reading to know how your fermentation is going, NOT go by airlocks, or size of krausen, or a calendar, the horoscope or the phases of the moon (those things in my mind are equally accurate). :rolleyes:

The most important tool you can use is a hydrometer. It's the only way you will truly know when your beer is ready...airlock bubbles and other things are faulty.

The only way to truly know what is going on in your fermenter is with your hydrometer. Like I said here in my blog, which I encourage you to read, Think evaluation before action you sure as HELL wouldn't want a doctor to start cutting on you unless he used the proper diagnostic instuments like x-rays first, right? You wouldn't want him to just take a look in your eyes briefly and say "I'm cutting into your chest first thing in the morning." You would want them to use the right diagnostic tools before the slice and dice, right? You'd cry malpractice, I would hope, if they didn't say they were sending you for an MRI and other things before going in....

All those other things are really just superficial to the purpose at hand, if your yeast took off, unless you let the temp go down near 50, your yeast is still working happily away, despite what the supreficial signs like airlock may indicate.
 
Thanks for the great info, Revvy. Tonight will mark 72hrs.....so I was just getting a bit concerned as my last identical (ish) batch fermented quite differently, and much more visibly and quicker.

It's good to get real-time feedback on this as I just can't figure out how NOTHING could be going on down there. I sanitized well, and there is plenty of food for the yeasties to munch on. The only thing I could have done to help them out more would have been to aerate better....but that seems par for the course with a lot of guys. Even with mediocre aeration, the yeasties should still have enough to live on.....even it if takes longer to rev up.
Right?
 
What was the date on the yeast? I've had problems with older liquid yeast. Always check the dates and if you have older yeast make a starter.
 
Haven't checked the date on the yeast.....didn't think it would be a problem.
I'll have to check when I get home tonight.
 
Could be a number of issues.

Is this all grain or extract with grains?
What is your mash routine? Was the temperature correct? What was the PH during the mash?
- if you mashed at too high a temp or if the PH was way off you could not have not gotten a good conversion from starch to sugar, and the yeast have nothing to do.

What kind of yeast did you pitch? Where did you get it? What is the expiration date on it?
- some yeasts take 24 hours to get going...but after that you should see activity.
If you bought the yeast online and had it shipped, chances are your yeast got whacked. I have had it happen numerous times and now only buy from the local home brew shop (which has it shipped to them bulk in a cooler at a stable temp). Check the expiration date on your yeast also..the best buy date is an estimate of when it won't be very viable anymore. When in doubt, make a yeast starter and ensure the yeast is up to par before you spend several hours brewing.
Also add some yeast nutrient during the boil, and get yourself an O2 setup to aerate your wort. You can get an airstone and manifold for the small O2 bottles Home Depot sells fairly cheap. It will make a big difference in both lag time and attenuation.

StarSan won't do anything to your beer.

As stated earlier, take a sample and do a gravity check. If you gravity is dropping you have yeast activity, but from what you describe it sounds bleak.
After 72 hours of no activity I would say your heading into dumping the batch territory and starting again.
 
monkeyboy09 said:
Could be a number of issues.

Is this all grain or extract with grains?
What is your mash routine? Was the temperature correct? What was the PH during the mash?
- if you mashed at too high a temp or if the PH was way off you could not have not gotten a good conversion from starch to sugar, and the yeast have nothing to do.

What kind of yeast did you pitch? Where did you get it? What is the expiration date on it?
- some yeasts take 24 hours to get going...but after that you should see activity.
If you bought the yeast online and had it shipped, chances are your yeast got whacked. I have had it happen numerous times and now only buy from the local home brew shop (which has it shipped to them bulk in a cooler at a stable temp). Check the expiration date on your yeast also..the best buy date is an estimate of when it won't be very viable anymore. When in doubt, make a yeast starter and ensure the yeast is up to par before you spend several hours brewing.
Also add some yeast nutrient during the boil, and get yourself an O2 setup to aerate your wort. You can get an airstone and manifold for the small O2 bottles Home Depot sells fairly cheap. It will make a big difference in both lag time and attenuation.

StarSan won't do anything to your beer.

As stated earlier, take a sample and do a gravity check. If you gravity is dropping you have yeast activity, but from what you describe it sounds bleak.
After 72 hours of no activity I would say your heading into dumping the batch territory and starting again.
Click to expand...



I used (2) vials of WLP001, as stated. Not sure on the date, i'll check later today. AG batch.
My mash was fine, and PH has never been a problem with this recipie. OG was 1.072 (all numbers were spot on).....so there's plenty to work with there. I could have aerated better, but I did what I could.

Edit:
This is a 5gal batch in a 6 gal carboy, FWIW
 
monkeyboy09 said:
Could be a number of issues.

Is this all grain or extract with grains?
What is your mash routine? Was the temperature correct? What was the PH during the mash?
- if you mashed at too high a temp or if the PH was way off you could not have not gotten a good conversion from starch to sugar, and the yeast have nothing to do.

What kind of yeast did you pitch? Where did you get it? What is the expiration date on it?
- some yeasts take 24 hours to get going...but after that you should see activity.
If you bought the yeast online and had it shipped, chances are your yeast got whacked. I have had it happen numerous times and now only buy from the local home brew shop (which has it shipped to them bulk in a cooler at a stable temp). Check the expiration date on your yeast also..the best buy date is an estimate of when it won't be very viable anymore. When in doubt, make a yeast starter and ensure the yeast is up to par before you spend several hours brewing.
Also add some yeast nutrient during the boil, and get yourself an O2 setup to aerate your wort. You can get an airstone and manifold for the small O2 bottles Home Depot sells fairly cheap. It will make a big difference in both lag time and attenuation.

StarSan won't do anything to your beer.

As stated earlier, take a sample and do a gravity check. If you gravity is dropping you have yeast activity, but from what you describe it sounds bleak.
After 72 hours of no activity I would say your heading into dumping the batch territory and starting again.
Click to expand...

Just wanted to say, It could also be none of these issues, you could have no problem at all.

Don't consider dumping this brew until a gravity reading is taken, and probably for a couple weeks after that even. Every fermentation is different, there are factors too numerous to track concerning fermentation and some of them are completely out of our control.:mug:
 
You don't dump something because you think it's going to turn out bad. You only dump a beer that you KNOW is bad, and you give it at least a couple of months in the bottle before you even make THAT decision.

If the yeast hasn't taken off after 72 hours, all you gotta do is pitch more yeast. Which more than likely you won't have to do, because nothing's wrong.

Read theses two threads that were compiled for nervous new brewers to realize that your beers are not a weak baby that is going to die if you look at it wrong.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/wh...where-your-beer-still-turned-out-great-96780/

Read this one especially

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/ne...virtue-time-heals-all-things-even-beer-73254/

Our beer is really resilient despite the boneheaded things we do to it. And even if something appears to be wrong, often time and the yeasties go along way to correct itself.

I think about it in terms of my time and money, I'm not going to dump 30 or more dollars worth of ingredients, 6 hours of brewing time, and at least 2 months from yeast pitch to cracking the first bottle, on what could be a minor mistake (that may not even harm the beer anyway,) until I have exhausted all probability that the beer won't improve. And even then that means at least walking away from the bottles for maybe 6 months or more.

And so far I have never beer wrong.

After all these years of brewing I still haven't had a dumper.

And I've made some big mistakes.

But I have never had a beer that wasn't at least palatable, after all that time.

They may have not been stellar beers, but they were still better than BMC or Skunky Beers in green bottles that people actually pay money for.
 
Probably bad yeast. Has happened to me before and wasted 8 hours of a brew session, not to mention the $$. You can see if they will replace the yeast at no charge, Morebeer has done this for me in the past but did suggest I utilized overnight or 2 day shipping. As far as your beer goes, you are surely past the point of no return on it. You can try another vial or 2 of fresh yeast but are into the bacteria zone time wise after almost 4 days. If you don't have a local home brew shop and have to get your yeast via shipping, make a yeast starter a few days prior and you will know if your yeast is good or bad. Good luck.....
 
As long as sanitation process were followed all should be fine. If the yeast has done nothing (hydrometer reading confirmed) then pitching more yeast may work. The problem comes in if there is a weak ferment. Stressed yeast creates off flavors. I have had that problem before and had to dump a batch due to stressed yeast. That's why since then I have used a starter for any liquid yeast.
 
Thanks again for chiming in everyone. Im almost certain that there is no infection caused by sanitation, but even if there was, there would still be fermentation right?
It may have off flavors, but it will still ferment even if there are some stray bacteria in there after 72hrs with no visible activity??

Now, off to read Revvy's blog/post.
 
heh...uh...so, did you ever take that gravity reading? you know...to confirm your fermentation was actually stuck?

or did i miss a post somewhere...
 
krumb said:
heh...uh...so, did you ever take that gravity reading? you know...to confirm your fermentation was actually stuck?

or did i miss a post somewhere...
Click to expand...

No, but you must have missed the post saying that i'd check it when I got home. Kinda tough to do from work yanno? :rolleyes:
 
A lot of times with high gravity beers and no starters this happens. Could just be your yeast viability was lower on this pitch (poor yeast vial handling, old yeast etc.) Therefore the yeast have to reproduce like more, and that adds to lag time, before they take off.

As Revy said - hydro reading is the way to go.


I have had batches that took up to 5 days to kick in. Brew still turned out ok
 
What usually happens on here 20-30 times a day on these "no activity and I didn't take a grav reading, and I'm at work" threads, is you will come home and find all the activity you need.
 
Revvy said:
What usually happens on here 20-30 times a day on these "no activity and I didn't take a grav reading, and I'm at work" threads, is you will come home and find all the activity you need.
Click to expand...

Exactly. Though at this point without a gravity reading it is just as likely to conclude that: A) the yeast is in fact working B) The yeast is dead and the beer is ruined or C) Evil leprechauns are holding the yeast hostage until you pay a ransom.

The point is, for those who are still following this thread, is to either just bide your time and let nature take its course or to test with a hydrometer. All other methods will just cause you to worry needlessly.
 
Update for those of you that have been helping/following:

The dread has been confirmed. Took a gravity reading at it is still at 1.072.....my OG. I am now 3 days after pitching.

What do I do now? I don't have access to a LHBS, and used both my vials of WLP001 on this guy. Do I repitch the same yeast strain? Would it hurt the profile of the beer to use a different strain?

Ahhhhhh!!!! So frustrating to have two identical recipies turn out so differently when the exact same procedures were followed. I even raised a few points in efficency with this batch.

The wort from this sample was sooooo yummy. :(
 
I always keep so5 on hand for instances like this. it will come out different with a different yeast, but should still come out well. what yeast did you use/ are you going to try now?
 
I used 2 vials of WLP001, and i'd like to stick with that but I don't have quick access to any, or any yeast for that matter. Looks like i'm going to have to overnight something. This is turning into a very expensive 5gal batch.


EDIT:
I just found one of the vials I used and the expiry says "use before Oct 2011".

I'm baffled as to why this brew won't take off.
 
Have you tried rousing the yeast and oxygenating again? It could be that they dont have any oxygen to aid in reproduction. If there's been no fermentation then there is no danger in oxidizing it. I would try that and try using US-05 before even thinking about dumping it.
 
naderchaser said:
. . . . . . I'm baffled as to why this brew won't take off.
Click to expand...

I'm not surprised, it's only been 3 days on an underpitched brew (Should have had almost 3 vials without a starter), your yeasties are building a few billions more buddies to tackle the job at hand, you might try swirling it a little, but I would simply wait a few more days.:mug:
 
I agree. As I said earlier - I have waited as much as 5 days for an underpitched, or weak old washed yeast (low viability) pitch to kick in. I would still wait. Worst case if you can just order some wyeast 1056 or wl001 and some safale 05 online. When it gets in pitch it. You will have plenty of other beers that use this yeast anyway.

Lesson learned - keep a couple packets of dry yeast kicking around.

If it were me, I would wait until 5 full days have transpired. To have no yeast in two vials of non expired WL vials seems impossible.
 
As long as your sanitation was good, there's nothing to worry about. A recent brew of mine took five days to take off due to a bad batch of yeast, and it still turned out great. Next time, make a starter though!
 
Thanks for the replies and input all. After I took a gravity reading last night and saw that there had been no active fermentation yet, I went back down a few hours later to check on it, and it was finally bubbling a little bit in the blowoff tube......showing signs of active fermentation for the first time in 3 days.

I'll take another gravity reading this afternoon and post.....for those of you that care to follow. Cheers!
 

Similar threads

_Keven
No activity after 12 hours using a yeast starter
Replies
15
Views
1K
_Keven
_Keven
C
No activity
Replies
14
Views
874
cleaner72
C
V
No sign of fermentation after 48 hrs
Replies
3
Views
541
odie
odie
nyoksol
Stuck fermentation-- how can I rescue it?
Replies
11
Views
1K
dmtaylor
dmtaylor
Tony B
Curious fermentation
Replies
15
Views
1K
redrocker652002
R
SSBrew 300

Latest posts

Back
Top