Stuck fermentation - Barleywine.

[Arlen]

O.K. I brewed this Barleywine in early May. The rough recipe is below and it’s based on a couple of different recipes for a good, big barleywine. I used nice, fresh ingredients.
6 lbs Amber LME
6 lbs Amber LME(late addition)
1 lbs Caramel 120
8 oz Chocolate Malt
1 lbs Corn Sugar

2oz Cascade 60min
3oz Fuggles 10min

Danstar Windsor yeast.


At any rate, the brew day went well and I was spot on with the OG of 1.10.
After about two weeks on primary and no activity for some time, I transferred to secondary and took a gravity reading. I forget what it was now because I’m at work, but it was only at around 5.5% alcohol. Temperatures had been fairly steady at around 68.

On Monday I pitched some Danstar CBC-1 Conditioning Yeast which had started well and was bubbling nicely when I proofed it. Again, relatively steady temperatures. A few bubbles from the airlock but nothing to write home about.
The imperial stout I have going which had the same yeast pitched on the same day is blowing out of the airlock so much I had to use a blowoff tube for the first time ever. (Same temps, too.)
Last night I went ahead and stirred up the yeast cake and then moved out of the brewing cupboard to a warmer spot. A bubble every 20 seconds or so. Great. Then nothing this morning.
I’ve been told to try the following:
Rack off into another fermenter and cap it. Feed the yeast cake with some dissolved corn sugar and put it in a warm place all mixed up at the bottom of the old carboy. If it gets really active, go ahead and rack back on top of it and keep it somewhere warm. Like, 70 to 80 F warm.
If the yeast cake doesn’t get active, I’ve been told to go ahead and pitch some champagne yeast. (Which I believe would need to be kept really cool.)
There is no sign of infection at all. I’d like to stick with an ale yeast at least until bottling but I’m starting to think I may have to try a champagne yeast to get this stuff finished off!

Any other advice or ideas before I get home and try all of this?

 

[sweetcell]

stay away from champagne yeast, for now. you still have too much maltose, maltotriose and other sugars that wine yeast can't digest. champagne yeast, like most wine yeasts, is a killer yeast. it will kill brewers yeast.

heating up and then re-suspending the yeast (mixing/breaking up the cake) are good ideas. get that thing up to 75*F and then swirl it.

initially, how did you aerate and how much yeast did you pitch?

 

[Arlen]

Yeah, I thought that might be an issue, hence wanting to stay away from Champagne yeast at least until bottling.
When I pitched it was from a dry packet and I wanted to retain as many of the cells as possible so I just proofed it in about four cups of warmish water with about a quarter cup of corn sugar dissolved in it. (What I've always done and it has always worked a charm.)
As far as aeration - I usually put the carboy in a milk crate and push it back and forth vigorously for about three to five minutes. Again, it has always worked well before. The other beer with this same yeast and similar aeration is going nuts.

I'll warm up/feed/mix/agistate/whatever when I get home tonight and then post tomorrow to let everyone know what's going on. I guess my next step will be to use more than one packet to make sure I have a LOT of viable cells.

 

[sweetcell]

one pack was under-pitching, for a beer that big (assuming the batch size is 5 gallons or more). mrmalty sez that you need 1.7 packs for 5.25 gals of 1.100, assuming the packets are fresh. so you probably pitched about half as much yeast as required.

do not use simple sugar when proofing yeast. if fed only sugar, yeast can lose the enzymes required to break down maltose. a sugar-only diet makes them lazy. follow the manufacturer's instructions for rehydrating. 4 cups of water is more than needed but it probably didn't hurt the yeast. did you use warmed water (80-85*F), or ambient?

shaking the carboy isn't going to get enough O2 in there for a beer that big. at a minimum you need to run an aquarium pump through there, a few times in the first 24 hours, and ideally you need pure O2.

your strategies work for other smaller beers, but you need to take a different tact on a 1.100 beer!

 

[Arlen]

Awesome. Thanks for the advice. I'll do what I can to get it going and try to get into the habit of keeping wort on hand for re-hydrating yeast.
BTW, it was ambient temperature for the yeast. Not too hot.

 

[sweetcell]

if you have any, add some more yeast. rehydrate it first. warming and swirling the older yeast should also help.

speaking of rehydration: you should use water, only - no wort (or sugar). here is a link to Danstar's page on how to rehydrate their yeasts: http://www.danstaryeast.com/library/rehydration-and-usage-tips-ale-yeast

 

[Arlen]

O.K. I proofed and added two packs of US-05 which someone on another forum recommended for barleywines. Made sure it was well aerated, stirred everything up and pitched the yeast. Nada. Not a bubble. Nothing.
(This was all yesterday, btw.)

I'll give it a couple of days to see if anything kicks up. If not, I have a couple of options. I can go to the home brew store and see if they recommend something. If not, I can go to some of the local breweries and see if someone will let me have a nice, big, active bucket of their yeast.


Any recommendations here?

 

[Hopper5000]

You could brew up a starter of wlp99 and pitch it at high krausen. At this point, however, there is probably enough yeast in there. Did you try heating it up?

 

[m3n00b]

If that doesn't work I used a 1G starter of WLP099 and it brought my stuck 1.127og barleywine from 1.050 down to 1.018 in a week.

 

[Hopper5000]

btw, what is your gravity reading right now?

 

[Arlen]

Update: My Stout finished up in the primary on Sunday morning so I racked it over to a secondary to clarify a bit. I racked the Barleywine on to the established yeast cake from the stout, added some beano and gave it all a really thorough mix.
As of this morning the Barleywine is bubbling away about once every 13-20 seconds and has a noticeable layer of krausen on top!!!!

I'm going to get it as close to my desired gravity as I can then, per some reliable instructions. will boil for 15 minutes, cool and bottle with a small amount of champagne yeast.

I'll keep you guys updated.

 

[m3n00b]

Nice! Beano is crazy...hopefully it doesn't go too far.
Edit:
Wait....you're hoping to boil it? That will probably ruin your beer and take the alcohol out.

 

[Hopper5000]

yeah boil it!? why would you do that? i have never used beano but i have heard it is indeed crazy, hope it works out and doesn't ferment down too much...

 

[Arlen]

The active ingredient in Beano, alpha galactosidase, is incredibly hardy and can leave the beer very, very dry. The only way to drop it out would be to boil the beer for a short time once I am close to the desired gravity.
Now, as far as losing the flavour/alcohol content of the beer, this is unlikely. A lot of people have this idea that cooking with alcohol, they alcohol is lost and is no longer present in the meal. The only alcohol lost is that which leaves as vapour while cooking. Leave the lid on and it will settle on the inside of the lid then drip back in as it cools.
With a strong flavour like barleywine you’re not going to have much impact on the flavour even after it has been boiled for a short time. You’d really have to torch it. (I’ve had long boiled spiced Ale plenty of times and never had even a dip in the Ale flavour even after it being on a rolling boil for an hour.)
My main aim is to keep a close eye on the gravity and pull it out and deal with it as soon as it is close to avoid it ending up way too dry.

 

[JonM]

Next time you get a stuck barleywine, make a simple 1.050 lawnmower beer, ferment it out, bottle it, and put the stuck barleywine on the lawnmower beer's cake. Works every time and much less involved.