Strange bitterness in finish

[jtp137]

Lately I have been getting a strange bitterness on the finish of my high gravity beers. I don't notice it in low gravity american ales just high gravity Belgians. What could cause this water, fusel alcohol, aluminum brewing equipment

 

[Bosh]

From personal experience, maybe shaking the carboy to rouse the yeast and knocking dried krausen gunk into the beer?

 

[Qhrumphf]

The actual flavor of alcohol can take on a bunch of characters, one of which is bitter. Some phenols can have a bit of astringency with them in my experience. Fusels could do it too.

 

[1977Brewer]

Too many hops too early in the boil?

 

[pdxal]

We need more information. How about posting a couple of recipes for beers that turned out this way?

 

[jtp137]

This one had the bitterness

12.5 gal
1.078
1.010
30.8 IBU

19 pounds Belgian pilsner
3.17 pounds Munich
2 pounds cara 8l
5 pounds cane sugar

0.5 chinook 70 min
1 oz nugget at 70 min
1 oz saaz 10 minutes

Unibrou yeast pitch at 65 ramp to 75 over a week

Also did a Westvleteren 12 clone and I think it is starting to get this flavor. I think it gets more intense as the beer ages hooked up to the gas

I have the Belgians at 22 psi and everything else at 10 psi

 

[jtp137]

I have thought about all the batches this turned out this way and none of the wort samples tasted bitter and the samples that I tasted while checking gravity readings are not bitter as well the bitterness does get worse as the beer ages

All of the batches that turned out this way are carbed at 22 psi and made with a yeast starter. I was going to say all high gravity but the pumpkin beer i made was 8% and didnt have this

 

[sudndeth]

What temp are they at for serving? I was getting a "carbonic bite" it was a weird astringency that I couldn't figure out. The cold seems to enhance the presence. Try a lower carbonation. Just a possibility.

 

[brewcat]

Turn down the psi to 10.

 

[jtp137]

Does this only happen in the keg. Belgians that are bottle conditioned are like 3.5 to 4 volumes

 

[jtp137]

I just made a american brown maybe i should carb on keg at 10 and the other at 22 psi

 

[jtp137]

What temp are they at for serving? I was getting a "carbonic bite" it was a weird astringency that I couldn't figure out. The cold seems to enhance the presence. Try a lower carbonation. Just a possibility.

38 degrees pretty cold

 

[pdxal]

I just made a american brown maybe i should carb on keg at 10 and the other at 22 psi

Yeah, try a side by side with high vs. low carbonation and see if you get the same flavor. You could also up the psi on an already kegged beer and if it develops, off gas it and drop it back down to 10 psi to be drinkable again or take one of your Belgians and reverse that process.

 

[brewcat]

Does this only happen in the keg. Belgians that are bottle conditioned are like 3.5 to 4 volumes

I keep my dubbel at 2.5 or under.

It still could be a recipe issue. I'm kind of looking at the chinook and nugget. I'd lean towards using less bittering hops; maybe 0.5 - 1 oz of magnum. The keg is just the easiest thing to check first. I would carb up to 10 psi and pull a couple pints to clear more sediment. Then slowly ramp up the carbonation level and taking taste tests along the way.

 

[sudndeth]

I don't get it when I bottle condition. I do get it regardless of style at that high of a carbed keg level.

I can't explain the science on why it is, but it's my experience that over carbed, kegged beer gives me a weird bitterness.

 

[jtp137]

I don't get it when I bottle condition. I do get it regardless of style at that high of a carbed keg level.

I can't explain the science on why it is, but it's my experience that over carbed, kegged beer gives me a weird bitterness.

What pressure do you notice it starting to get bitter? And once the beer is over carbed can you get rid of the bitterness by de gassing and turning the pressure down

 

[brewcat]

Had this dawn on me today. How long are you connected at 22 psi before sampling? I know you can get some weird flavors before equilibrium. But I also don't know if more time would help.

 

[jtp137]

Had this dawn on me today. How long are you connected at 22 psi before sampling? I know you can get some weird flavors before equilibrium. But I also don't know if more time would help.

i had a tripel hooked up for 4 months and it got progressively worse. I cant even drink it

 

[Qhrumphf]

Just because it hasn't been said, lines are clean, right? Presumably fine if other beers aren't having an issue unless the lines in question were different.

 

[sudndeth]

What pressure do you notice it starting to get bitter? And once the beer is over carbed can you get rid of the bitterness by de gassing and turning the pressure down

I don't know the exact pressure the flavor starts. My regulator/bottle is in my keeper and the gauge stuck. I was at 20 PSI when I figured it out. It was as you said though, progressively worse. I thought it was the water since I moved, changed it on a batch but got the same flavor. Didn't get it on 2 batches I bottled (brewed with city water). When I found the stuck gauge the next batch, a rebrew, is fine. Never really tried to degas. Just dumped to clear the pipes for the next batches.

 

[jtp137]

I don't know the exact pressure the flavor starts. My regulator/bottle is in my keeper and the gauge stuck. I was at 20 PSI when I figured it out. It was as you said though, progressively worse. I thought it was the water since I moved, changed it on a batch but got the same flavor. Didn't get it on 2 batches I bottled (brewed with city water). When I found the stuck gauge the next batch, a rebrew, is fine. Never really tried to degas. Just dumped to clear the pipes for the next batches.

Funny I moved and also thought it was the water. I started checking mash ph and kind of ruled it out knowing my american ales where fine. I am hoping degassing my Westy 12 clone does the trick

 

[sudndeth]

Let us know if degassing works for you.

 

[sudndeth]

Did the bitterness go away.

 

[jtp137]

Didt try yet out of town for 10 days. I degassed for 5 days

 

[jtp137]

Update, the bitterness is gone although it isnt carbed as much as I like. I guess I'll start bottling my belgians

 

[sudndeth]

That's good to hear. At least it was salvageable. I bottle my Belgians. I need to experiment what psi is Mac for the flavor. Though it might be a combination of carb and temp.

 

[jtp137]

I usually keep mine pretty cold mid 30's and let them warm up in the glass. Currently mine is set at 15 psi and seems ok