Stout Water Profile

[Soulshine2]

Now lets look at the effect of adding 1 extra gallon of water to the mash and thereby raising the pH from 4.51 to 5.37.

Water is essentially pH neutral (which is why it is chosen as the preferred carrier within which to analyze the effect of so many chemical reactions, in that it stays out of the way of the reactants and doesn't interfere with them). So where is all of the caustic which is required to move the mash from 4.51 pH to 5.37 pH coming from, if not from the water? Did it just magically appear from nowhere, or is something wrong?

correction ...distilled water is essentially pH neutral..which stands to reason why laboratories use it for proper soil analysis ...Carry on.

 

[Soulshine2]

I do not have a water report for my tap water...I have just always used distilled... early on I did use spring water but never my own tap water...I can tell you it is highly chlorinated though...I do have a meter(cheaper) but it has broken...in the past when it worked the calculations from brunwater seemed to match up very close to what i was reading so I just stop using it

you should call your water provider (city,county or community well ) and ask for a water analysis sheet. Possibly you can find one online. If you have your own well , then you can go to the hardware store and buy a kit ,take a water sample and send it in for analysis .Might take a little while for the outcome but you'll at least have a starting point to work with.

 

[Rev2010]

I do not have a water report for my tap water...I have just always used distilled... early on I did use spring water but never my own tap water...I can tell you it is highly chlorinated though...I do have a meter(cheaper) but it has broken...in the past when it worked the calculations from brunwater seemed to match up very close to what i was reading so I just stop using it

I was only able to find a 2017 water report for your township (Saugerties NY?). It didn't contain all the info we typically use but it looked fine with fairly low mineral levels. As far as chlorine, there are several ways you can rid the water of chlorine. You can A) Let your entire volume of water stand overnight and it will off-gas. B) Boil it and let it cool C) Simply use campden tablets which also rid water of chloramines which your water doesn't appear to have. One tablet removes chlorine/chloramines in 20 gallons. So for a typical 5 gallon brew day between mash & sparge water should only require a half a tablet. That's what I use, quick and simple. Just crush it up into a powder and add it to your water.


Rev.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

correction ...distilled water is essentially pH neutral..which stands to reason why laboratories use it for proper soil analysis ...Carry on.

The OP has told us that he uses 100% distilled water. And so did @Rev2010 when he tossed in an extra gallon and the pH went from 4.51 to 5.37.

 

[marchuk96]

I've never tried Brewtarget. Is it giving you the same pH adjustment advice as for BW?

it does not have ph adjustment functionality...which is why i use brunwater

 

[Soulshine2]

The OP has told us that he uses 100% distilled water. And so did @Rev2010 when he tossed in an extra gallon and the pH went from 4.51 to 5.37.

No , I was correcting on your comment that water is essentially neutral in pH. Just adding that DISTILLED water is , not (tap) water in general. Depending on if the water source is from limestone well or sulphury
.Big difference.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

New question (which presumes massively alkaline dilution water, with this clearly not being the case here, but just for grins...):

If it initially took 5.85 gallons of either 427 ppm (for baking soda) or 600 ppm (for slaked lime) bicarbonate water (with the difference here being a mystery in itself, seeing as how one would presume that bicarb is bicarb is bicarb...) to move a grists mash from 4.51 pH to 5.53 pH, can only a single gallon of such a highly alkaline water (acting all by itself) move the same grists mash from 4.51 pH all the way to 5.37 pH?

Short version: 5.85 gallons of extremely high alkalinity water for a pH shift of 1.02 points vs. only 1 gallon of the same for a pH shift of 0.86 pH points.

 

[quijiba]

Thank you...i just wish i could get it to work...the prob i am having is getting that bicarb level down low without also having either extremely high sodium or calcium levels...while my result on the first stout i did were fairly good i did experience what you are talking about when you said minerally mouth feel and even some saltiness...that beer also had a high bicarb level and sodium level because i just went with the large baking soda addition that brunwater calculated for me...this is what is driving me to make this one better and change what i did previously...how did you achieve those numbers?? also i wanted this to be real full bodied with a nice creamy head on it which is why i added the flaked barley...you think i should leave it out?? and the vienna and munich are my base for the stout...i should cut one of those tooo?? thank you and all for the feedback...i just want to nail this thing!!!!!

Based on your 9 gallon of water total I get:

CA: 128.9
Mg:5
Na: 95
CL: 168
S04: 103.7
Alk as CaC03: 208

with additions of:

Gypsum: 5g
Epson salt: 2g
Calcium Chloride 12g
Baking Soda: 12g

Your salt is a bit high, but it won't come off as salty (i've gone to 100ppm and never noticed salinity. Average threshold for human tongue is 150ppm if I remember correctly). You can always toggle these numbers to see what else you get.

As far as mash Ph. I would either a) give it a go and not worry about it, or mash all your dark stuff at the end/during sparge. Both lead to excellent beers.

I use brewers friend for my water stuff and it has always worked well. I also use basically distilled water (everything is 4ppm or less).

https://www.brewersfriend.com/mash-chemistry-and-brewing-water-calculator/

GOod luck!

 

[marchuk96]

Based on your 9 gallon of water total I get:

CA: 128.9
Mg:5
Na: 95
CL: 168
S04: 103.7
Alk as CaC03: 208

with additions of:

Gypsum: 5g
Epson salt: 2g
Calcium Chloride 12g
Baking Soda: 12g

Your salt is a bit high, but it won't come off as salty (i've gone to 100ppm and never noticed salinity. Average threshold for human tongue is 150ppm if I remember correctly). You can always toggle these numbers to see what else you get.

As far as mash Ph. I would either a) give it a go and not worry about it, or mash all your dark stuff at the end/during sparge. Both lead to excellent beers.

I use brewers friend for my water stuff and it has always worked well. I also use basically distilled water (everything is 4ppm or less).

https://www.brewersfriend.com/mash-chemistry-and-brewing-water-calculator/

GOod luck!

Thank you...how would you calculate ph with adding in grain later in mash...I know you would just calculate ph without the dark grains in original profile but what should I target... still my desired 5.5-5.6... or do I go higher to account for ph drop once dark grain is added in??

 

[Rev2010]

but what should I target... still my desired 5.5-5.6... or do I go higher to account for ph drop once dark grain is added in??

You target your initial desired pH, not higher.


Rev.

 

[marchuk96]

You target your initial desired pH, not higher.


Rev.

So after much debate I decide to leave 1 of the 2 lbs out of the mash of dark grains till the very end and purchased some slaked lime...I was able to get what I was targeting by dropping my gypsum and calcium chloride down to minimal amounts and adjusting with baking soda and the lime...so thank youto all that helped with the info and tips...much appreciated!!

 

[marchuk96]

So today will be one week into the making of this stout...my brew day was smooth with no issues at all...4 hr brew day from start to finish which was impressive in itself as I have never had a brew day that short( I mostly brew ipas)...anyway...3 points short on pre boil...but one point over on o.g...hit exactly 5.5 gals...i held choc malt till the last 15 mins of mash...o.g was 1.078...brewtarget had me dropping to a 1.019 final which I knew was not going to happen since I mashed at 155 and it doesn't take mash temp into consideration when designing recipes...its now at 1.029/1.030 after two hydro readings...one friday...one today...both read the same...it is really well balanced and to be honest i think id prefer it at this gravity than the 1.019...but any thoughts on the shortfall in gravity??...I did a 1 ltr. starter with one pk of 2 months old imperial darkness yeast...I had signs of fermentation 7 hr's later and fermented at a pretty constant 65/66 degrees...I'll check gravity one more time maybe tomorrow...if there's no change I'll probably keg thursday or friday