Stout Bitterness: Hops v. Roasted Malt

[DBhomebrew]

Thanks for the suggestions. I may just stick with the EKG (mine are currently 5.6%), though I do have a pound of Challenger at 7% and love the hop in just about every way (including a SMaSH bitter). I don't know that I've ever used Cluster. Is there some rep of this very thing we're talking about, that some find Cluster a bit "harsh" or "unclean" in bitterness quality?

For a while I was doing Challenger/EKG pales and Cluster/Fuggle milds, stouts, etc. No scientific method there, just felt like the thing to do. Then I hit on a batch of grapefruity EKG and I went off it for a bit. Northern_Brewer has commented on it. Something about particular year's weather. My most recent bag of EKG wasn't grapefruity, but it was only ~4.3% if I recall.

I'd stick to your EKG and see how it goes.

 

[Bobby_M]

An Imperial stout should have about half the IBU as OG gravity, so like 1.120 and 60ibu. It always tastes like it's way too much until you get some aging. Of course additional counterbalance from roast and alcohol.

 

[DBhomebrew]

An Imperial stout should have about half the IBU as OG gravity, so like 1.120 and 60ibu. It always tastes like it's way too much until you get some aging. Of course additional counterbalance from roast and alcohol.

How widespread through the style (modern American RIS, I presume) is that? Ol' Raspy is 9% and 75IBU.

 

[Gadjobrinus]

An Imperial stout should have about half the IBU as OG gravity, so like 1.120 and 60ibu. It always tastes like it's way too much until you get some aging. Of course additional counterbalance from roast and alcohol.

Bobby, I'd have to push back on that one, especially for beers intended to lay down 4-5 years. I suspect it would end up as cloying at least for me. Each to their own of course, but as a point of reference Ray Daniels' Designing Great Beers gives Imperials at average BU:GU .90, and suggests in his summary about 1.0.

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

I'll do a final report maybe next week, after the bubbles and temperature are where I want them.

Beersmith has 44 IBU, and the OG was 1.085, so the guidelines Bobby_M gave seem to put me close to the standard. I really suspect that a pound of table sugar might make this better.

I am thinking of changing the name from Steppe Brother to KGB Boot Polish.

 

[DBhomebrew]

If you accept 50:100 as the standard for the style, sure.

Pound of table sugar. How'd it make it 'better'? What is 'better'? I thought this thread was about a little more bitterness.

Along those lines, getting the BU:GU into the center of the guidelines might be 'better'.

 

[Bobby_M]

Bobby, I'd have to push back on that one, especially for beers intended to lay down 4-5 years. I suspect it would end up as cloying at least for me. Each to their own of course, but as a point of reference Ray Daniels' Designing Great Beers gives Imperials at average BU:GU .90, and suggests in his summary about 1.0.

Sure, there are variations in opinion and a wide allowance for bitterness level per the style (medium to aggressive). FG and roast level play a part in the perceived bitterness as well. If you approach it as a bigger version of a typical American Stout, the IBUs would be maxed out.

 

[Gadjobrinus]

Sure, there are variations in opinion and a wide allowance for bitterness level per the style (medium to aggressive). FG and roast level play a part in the perceived bitterness as well. If you approach it as a bigger version of a typical American Stout, the IBUs would be maxed out.

Of course, the more the merrier. I still wonder though on the difference between a BU:GU .65 at 6 months v. a 1.25 at 5 years. I seem to recall someone actually talking about this somewhere, can't remember where - but the hugely hopped/BU, long-aged RIS on paper actually was perceived as somewhat sweeter than the younger, lower hopped stout. Wish I had 5 lives left to do a study.....

 

[kevin58]

I've made some Ron Pattinson historic Stout recipes that call for insane amounts of hops and they were fantastic. Not overly bitter, definitely not cloyingly sweet. Zero roast/dark malt astringency. I aged them for 12 months minimum before tasting.

 

[Bobby_M]

Another random data point for ya'll. I just popped my last known bottle of stout brewed 12 years ago in this video

Not exactly the same ratio I was talking about, but nonetheless it wasn't too sweet. It is definitely one of the more roasty grain bills (40 SRM).

 

[Gadjobrinus]

Another random data point for ya'll. I just popped my last known bottle of stout brewed 12 years ago in this video

Not exactly the same ratio I was talking about, but nonetheless it wasn't too sweet. It is definitely one of the more roasty grain bills (40 SRM).

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That's awesome, Bobby. Kudos man! And wasn't aware of your channel until just now - just subscribed.