Storing RO water for brew day

[schoellhorn82]

So i just installed a 5 stage ro system and ill have to start collecting water the day before brew day this weekend. I am a newb with this so be easy. Isn't there something about changing the ph of the water if left to absorb co2 ? Is it suposed to be stored in airtight containers? I do have a bunch of unused carboys i can store in.

Also, what are some techniques to use for mixing with tap water for the mash of different styles of beer? I do have some 5.2 salts i can use.

 

[Yooper]

So i just installed a 5 stage ro system and ill have to start collecting water the day before brew day this weekend. I am a newb with this so be easy. Isn't there something about changing the ph of the water if left to absorb co2 ? Is it suposed to be stored in airtight containers? I do have a bunch of unused carboys i can store in.

Also, what are some techniques to use for mixing with tap water for the mash of different styles of beer? I do have some 5.2 salts i can use.

The pH will change, but that's no problem. The RO water will still have little akalinity.

Throw out the "5.2 salts", and you should be all set.

You can mix tap water with your RO water if you want. I generally use all RO water because it's much easier and I"m more likely to get a proper mash pH, but if you know the make up of your tap water and it's not too alkaline, you can certainly use it.

 

[schoellhorn82]

Yooper, you just use straight ro water to mash? I thought the ph would be way too high

 

[day_trippr]

Can't speak for Yooper but as my well water has an RA around 170 I went with an RO system and all my brews are 100% RO with whatever "salt" and PA additions Bru'n Water recommends for the style being brewed vs the grain bill used...

Cheers!

 

[schoellhorn82]

I live in St. Louis and my TDS are around 215. Ill check out Bru'n Water thanks.

 

[bonecitybrewco]

I start collecting day before as well and store in 5 gallon PET water jugs. No problems yet. have left them for days, and still no problems either. That's 100% RO with additions calculated with Bru'n water.

 

[elerten]

My RO collects in a 35 gallon food grade container. It might sit for a couple weeks like that. Never had any trouble. I've probably got 100 brew sessions under my belt doing it this way. I follow the ezwater excel sheet for my additions.

 

[MaryB]

Many years ago right out of high school I worked for a feed testing laboratory(they tested for nutrient content). We used a LOT of RO water so one of my jobs was to turn on the RO pump once a week to fill the big tank. If the water changed from sitting I think they would have had to drain that tank every day... they used it for gas spectra chroma photography... so any changes would have changed the readings badly.

 

[tezcatlipoca]

They also sell 10 gallon RO tanks on Amazon for a pretty penny. Looks like 14 gallon tank is $126 now and has a 10.7 gallon drawdown. The extra RO tank gives me enough for brew day and keeps the house with plenty of water. It was a nice little chunk of change but worth it to me. Though, I live in the south with plenty of hurricanes, so it's not difficult to justify having another tank of drinking water around.

Also, I brew with RO, but I usually add varying amounts of CaCl and gypsum.

 

[tezcatlipoca]

They also sell 10 gallon RO tanks on Amazon for a pretty penny. Looks like 14 gallon tank is $126 now and has a 10.7 gallon drawdown. The extra RO tank gives me enough for brew day and keeps the house with plenty of water. It was a nice little chunk of change but worth it to me. Though, I live in the south with plenty of hurricanes, so it's not difficult to justify having another tank of drinking water around.

Also, I brew with RO, but I usually add varying amounts of CaCl and gypsum.

 

[mabrungard]

Water pH means nothing. Don't worry about that. Store and use your RO water as you see fit. Do add minerals and acids as needed to produce the water your beer needs. Do place that 5.2 product in the bottom of your trash can and don't look back...snake oil.

 

[schoellhorn82]

Mabrungard,

What do you mean water PH means nothing? Everything I've read you try to target between 5.2 and 5.8 and adjust the mash with minerals and acids to get in that range as well as the type beer water profile needs. I have just downloaded bru'n water and haven't had the time yet to go through all the instructions and information.

 

[BrewKaiser]

I have a 1/4, quick connect 3-way valve on my permeate (filtered RO water) line. One line leads to by HLT the other to a length of 1/4 tubing. 1-2 days before I brew I fill my HLT and 2 5 GAL PET containers (water cooler containers). I cap them off with aluminum foil that I give a quick spray of StarSan.

I also collect 3 5 GAL PET containers of the RO waste water. I place this in my fridge night before brew and chill down to 34*. I use this for my wort chilling cycle. Hate to watch all that waste water go down the drain. Especially since our base starting water is 30-35 TDS. I know: why even have a RO system...I like the predictability of RO water.

@schoellhorn82, I think you are confusing Mash PH with Water PH. For Mash PH, 5.2 to 5.8 is certainly the target.

 

[tezcatlipoca]

Mabrungard,

What do you mean water PH means nothing? Everything I've read you try to target between 5.2 and 5.8 and adjust the mash with minerals and acids to get in that range as well as the type beer water profile needs. I have just downloaded bru'n water and haven't had the time yet to go through all the instructions and information.

He means that water pH means nothing to you unless you know the constituents of the water. So, a water test that tells how much bicarbonate and calcium. Everything acts differently and some constituents can be strong/weak buffers, so it'll take more or less acid to change the pH. But yes, mash pH is the key parameter that we generally target. You cannot know which salts/minerals to add to adjust pH unless you know your complete water makeup.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

What do you mean water PH means nothing? Everything I've read you try to target between 5.2 and 5.8 and adjust the mash with minerals and acids to get in that range as well as the type beer water profile needs. I have just downloaded bru'n water and haven't had the time yet to go through all the instructions and information.

Most mash pH software ignores the pH of the source water, since it is essentially irrelevant. You do want to mash at around 5.2 to 5.5 pH, but your source waters pH does not enter into this. The DI pH and the buffering of the malts that comprise the grist vastly overwhelm the almost non existent buffering capacity of the source water.

OTOH, where source water pH does have relevance is in computing the acidification of sparge water.

 

[EcuPirate07]

I store RO water in a big 35g blue food grade barrel which also has a float valve attached to the RO system. As I pull water out the float drops and let's water flow from the RO system to refill the barrel. I've done this for a year without any issues and I never had to worry about collecting water. It's always there waiting for me, also a huge plus for when the zombies attack I have potable water.

 

[z-bob]

Mabrungard,

What do you mean water PH means nothing? Everything I've read you try to target between 5.2 and 5.8 and adjust the mash with minerals and acids to get in that range as well as the type beer water profile needs. I have just downloaded bru'n water and haven't had the time yet to go through all the instructions and information.

The mash pH is important. The pH of the water is not important.

The mineral content and the alkalinity of the water are important because those affect the mash pH.

I buy bulk RO water at Walmart or HyVee (local grocery chain) when it's convenient to do so, and I store it in the plastic carboys until I'm ready to use it. Sometimes a month or longer.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

The confusion here is likely in equating alkalinity with pH. My well water is an almost perfectly neutral pH 7.2, but its alkalinity (as CaCO3) is an astronomically high 436 ppm (which puts its bicarbonate value at 532 ppm). Even with dilution down to 20% well and 80% RO my well water is unusable. I had to learn this the hard way.

 

[mongoose33]

I store my RO water in an Aquatainer; I then pour that into 1-gallon jugs and refill.

 

[schoellhorn82]

Thank you everyone for your replies. I;ve been brewing almost 10 years and have now just looked into building water and PH. Seems like a whole new can of worms.

Brewing update: I brewed a Kolsch and an IPA with my RO water and both mashed in the 5.2-5.4 range. Efficiency was around 78% for both fly sparging. I treated both the mash and sparge water based on the water profile. Hoping for some good beer out of this.

 

[mabrungard]

Alkalinity: concentration of bicarbonate and carbonate ions

pH: concentration of hydrogen protons

Definitely not the same.

 

[Buckeye_Hydro]

Hate to watch all that waste water go down the drain. Especially since our base starting water is 30-35 TDS.

With feedwater at 30 to 35, you can tweak your RO system to produce much less waste water. As background, here's some jargon for you:

Permeate: RO water
Concentrate: "Waste" water
Recovery: The percentage of the feedwater that is recovered as permeate. Recovery is dramatically affected by your water pressure and temperature, and the flow restrictor you have installed.

First, measure your recovery. How? Line up 6 identical cups/glasses in front of your system. With your permeate tube in one hand, and your concentrate tube in the other, how many glasses do you fill with concentrate in the time it takes you to fill one with permeate?

An example: 5 cups concentrate to 1 cup permeate. So we know for every (5+1=) 6 parts of feedwater, you recover 1 as permeate. 1/6 = 17% recovery.

YOU can control the recovery by changing a little $4 part called a flow restrictor on your RO system. Takes about 15 seconds to change out.

With feedwater like yours and in the absence of feedwater chemistry data, I'd shoot for at least 30% recovery.

Russ

 

[brick_haus]

Like others, I store my RO water in a blue food grade drum. Mine is 55 gallon.

 

[BrewKaiser]

With feedwater at 30 to 35, you can tweak your RO system to produce much less waste water.

With feedwater like yours and in the absence of feedwater chemistry data, I'd shoot for at least 30% recovery.

Russ

Thanks Russ.

I'll give it a test. I suspect that my recovery rate is currently, 10-15%.

 

[schematix]

I live in St. Louis and my TDS are around 215. Ill check out Bru'n Water thanks.

I'm in Chesterfield and my TDS reader has never peaked above 110 ppm. Are you on well or city?

Storing RO water for a day or two isn't a problem. It usually doesn't become an issue until it's been days and days, with no movement and add in some light. Chances are you're not dealing with that.

Personally i just fill my HLT and BK up the day or two before with RO water. Since i practice low oxygen methods i use the BK to pre-boil the strike water and then pump to the MLT. I pre-boil the sparge water in the HLT. Unconventional but works perfectly.

 

[schoellhorn82]

It's city water. I'm sure we have some pretty nasty pipes flowing our water in the city. I just stored mine in 6 carboys before brewing. Then moved it all to 2 15gal pots for treatment before heating up. Worked great