Stirring Whilst Sparging
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Depends on if you're draining at the same time. If so you're going to have all kinds of solids getting into your kettle. If you aren't draining, as long as you vorlauf afterwards it will be very similar to adding the sparge water and then stirring.
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coldrice
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I have actually been stirring gently during sparge/runoff and havent experienced issues with grain in the boil kettle. just trying to figure out if that has something to do with my efficiency issues since beginnign work on my 15 gal system. i will look at grain crush but i dunno why my mill gap would have changed unless it got whacked on something. i think i may start doughing in and ramping up temps, too. because at 30-40lbs of grain per batch i'm really pissin away some money here.. should probably be using a 25 gal mash tun too so i can thin out my mash a bit...
Trying to fly sparge and stir? You won't be accomplishing the main effect of fly sparging (displacing the sugar) if your mixing it all up at the same time.
Whoops. Decided to edit my response to explain more while you were apparently posting. See above.
It is kinda interesting to think about the possibility of a "hybrid" sparge if your not getting grain in the kettle. I'm very surprised solids aren't getting through. How deep are you stirring? Using false bottom or manifold?
It is kinda interesting to think about the possibility of a "hybrid" sparge if your not getting grain in the kettle. I'm very surprised solids aren't getting through. How deep are you stirring? Using false bottom or manifold?
Ah. Well that's probably why you aren't getting any grain through. I imagine that is the cause of some efficiency issues. In fly sparging the wort is supposed to be gradually displaced by hot water so that the wort is not diluted. What you're doing by stirring is mixing the hot water and wort so that some of the sugar is left in the MLT. I'd suggest trying it without stirring and see what happens. What was your reasoning behind stirring?
The overall goal of the sparge is to separate the sugars from the grains. During mashing some sugars leech out into the mash water however id bet that there are still some sugars in the grains as well. In order to get the best separation of the sugar from the grains you would want the grains to be stationary while the water flows through them, convective mass transfer for you engineers out there.
If you are batch sparging, stirring won't make much difference (as long as you don't stir too deep).
If fly sparging, the you do not want to stir. When fly sparging you are pushing the sugary water out with clean water. Think of a black and tan in a pint glass that has a valve on the bottom. If there is no mixing, the tan (your wort) is pushed out more quickly by the black (sparge water)
If fly sparging, the you do not want to stir. When fly sparging you are pushing the sugary water out with clean water. Think of a black and tan in a pint glass that has a valve on the bottom. If there is no mixing, the tan (your wort) is pushed out more quickly by the black (sparge water)
Forget the damage...what's the good done by it? Why bother?
LandoLincoln
Well-Known Member
A mash paddle to the back of the head should work.
I'm not contradicting, but asking for clarification purposes because I have always stirred my mash when batch sparging.
My process (in a cooler):
Dough In
Mash
Vorlauf (with pump)
Drain Mash Tun
Add 1st sparge addition
Stir
Wait 15-20
Vorlauf again with pump
Drain
Add 2nd sparge addition
Wait
Drain.
I've run the gammut on efficiency and up til now I attributed it to milling differences (I've purchased premilled grain from all the major HBS on the net)
But now I'm wondering.
Sorry to the OP, not to hijack, but I think my question and your question have answers that compliment each other.
And Edit: I stir deep. The whole mash. I do 5 gallon batches in a 10G igloo MT.
jbaysurfer said:
The OP was fly sparging. With batch sparging, your process is fine. You MUST stir in batch sparging to have good mixing between the grain and the sparge water. Otherwise you will have pockets of high concentration of sugars and low concentration and lots of sugar will be left in the mash.
OK, great. Thanks for the reassurance. I think my efficiency issues ARE because of the crush. I won't say where I got those particular grains...but lets just say I'm not the first to get grains from them and be unhappy with the grind ;-)
jbaysurfer said:
Make sure your thermometer is calibrated and your mash pH is within range. Those two along with crush are the "usual suspects".
Yeah, I was making the jump, and figured in case he actually was batch sparging then he was stirring while draining which you do not need to do, but could if for no other reason then simply *because*, as long as you don't disturb the layer right over your manifold
You're not stirring during the sparge runoff are you? Just when you add the sparge water?
Edit: this paragraph is in response to Denny. No(during) and yes (only when adding the water)! I can see obvious issues with disturbing the grainbed while you run off. I just stir after the addition, then let it settle, then vorlauf again, then drain it. The vorlauf via the pump sets the grain bed pretty well for me.
To the person who said to check my thermometer and my ph, thanks for the feedback-I've done both. I do tend to mash on the low side (148-152) but that's by design. I usually brew IPAs and IIPAs and I like a clean, dry finish on them so the hops can shine ;-)
To the person who said to check my thermometer and my ph, thanks for the feedback-I've done both. I do tend to mash on the low side (148-152) but that's by design. I usually brew IPAs and IIPAs and I like a clean, dry finish on them so the hops can shine ;-)
Well with the bigger grainbills that come with those styles efficient sometimes suffers as well. I can hit mid-80s with a 1.040 beer but below 70 with something like 1.065.
Is that because of water to grain ratios? Cause I always plan my mash around 1.25qt:LB, but maybe it has to do with the bed depth or some other sciency thing that I didn't read in the appendix of the Palmer book.
Im not sure exactly why. Maybe somebody else can chime in. I do know you can sometimes overcome the large grain bill by sparging more. I just don't the equipment or patience for a super long boil to bring it down to 5 gallons.
In my experience, you're wasting time letting it settle. Do your vorlauf slowly and it will settle then. I simply stir in the sparge water, vorlauf, and drain.
Wow, I'm at 85% well into the mid 80s OG.
Thanks Denny, I actually usually do just that. A nice slow vorlauf until it's running pretty clear then switch the "out" hose to the brew kettle.
Crush til you're scared. Check your water composition and adjust if necessary. Mash with 1.6-2 qt./lb. Use 190-200 F water for sparging to make sure starches are solubulized and converted.
I suggest one more rule of thumb:
High efficiency and quality are not necessarily friends -- predictable efficiency is more important than high efficiency.
True. But if you can get high efficiency and quality, you're ahead of the game.
Denny said:
Yeah. I haven't tried any bigger beers yet now that I'm paying better attention to crush and water chemistry. Hopefully the next big beer I do will have a much higher efficiency than I'm used to!
