stepping up starter

[bragona71]

Im brewing a IPA with OG 1.074 Im planning on making my usual 2l starter. I have a 1l on stir plate now(washed us-05). I was hoping to brew tomorrow instead of Friday so I don't have time to crash starter and step up as usual. so the question is, can I make another starter in 2l flask and pitch the whole 1l into it? I have 2 other options, I have a dry packet in fridge I can add to wort when I pitch,or just simply wait and brew Friday

any thought?

 

[BlueHouseBrewhaus]

Yes, you can pitch your 1L starter into a 2L with some more boiled and cooled DME.

 

[WoodlandBrew]

To give you an idea of how much growth to expect over time try this calculator:
http://www.woodlandbrew.com/2015/02/starter-calculator.html

 

[flars]

To give you an idea of how much growth to expect over time try this calculator:
http://www.woodlandbrew.com/2015/02/starter-calculator.html

I decided to give your calculator a second try. Couldn't get it to work the first time. Between listening to the news, eating breakfast, and cats that wanted lap time, I got it. Even though I selected ounces of DME for the starter wort, the default entry needs to be grams.

Or, is the problem I have the spreadsheet opened in Open Office?

 

[WoodlandBrew]

I decided to give your calculator a second try. Couldn't get it to work the first time. Between listening to the news, eating breakfast, and cats that wanted lap time, I got it. Even though I selected ounces of DME for the starter wort, the default entry needs to be grams.

Or, is the problem I have the spreadsheet opened in Open Office?

The problem with the grams/oz switch either that macros were not enabled, or Open Office doesn't know how to run the macro. I do have plans to implement this calculator as a web page, but it will take time... You sound like a busy person, so I'm sure you understand, time is something I don't have a lot of.

 

[flars]

It is not a problem to enter the DME in grams. Have a handy desk top conversion tool and a digital scale with gram read out.

 

[brewprint]

I would just leave it and pitch.

I continually will make a 1L starter and dump a pint in a jar and leave for next time. My 1L starters are usually about 1 1/4. I either cold crash if I have time or I just pitch. Not once....not even once have I ever had a problem with fermentation. My SGs are almost always 1.065 and above and there is NEVER an issue going to 1.010 if I'm shooting that low.

IMHO starter calculators are nothing but a waste of time. The yeast reproduces itself as needed. Now unhealthy yeast is a different story. One may not have such a vigorous fermentation that it blows the lid off but that is not necessary to have that vigorous of a fermentation anyway.

 

[bragona71]

Thanks for the replies. Unfortunately my neighbors came over last night and we sat and drank all night so I didn't make the bigger starter. So I'm thinking of pitching the1l and tossing the dry packet just in case the packet has been in fridge a while so it's time to get a fresh back up packet

 

[kh54s10]

I would just leave it and pitch.

I continually will make a 1L starter and dump a pint in a jar and leave for next time. My 1L starters are usually about 1 1/4. I either cold crash if I have time or I just pitch. Not once....not even once have I ever had a problem with fermentation. My SGs are almost always 1.065 and above and there is NEVER an issue going to 1.010 if I'm shooting that low.

IMHO starter calculators are nothing but a waste of time. The yeast reproduces itself as needed. Now unhealthy yeast is a different story. One may not have such a vigorous fermentation that it blows the lid off but that is not necessary to have that vigorous of a fermentation anyway.

The issue with using a starter or not isn't whether the yeast will ferment the beer. Way back in the beginning the brewer would work up a mash/boil and stir it with their brew stick. Whatever yeast was still on the stick would ferment the beer.

You could ferment a beer with just a couple of drops of liquid yeast of a pinch of dry yeast. But that is not the best idea.

The idea with making a starter and pitching the proper amount of yeast is to produce the best beer you can. Underpitching can lead to unwanted flavors. Pitching the proper amount lessens the chance of these unwanted flavors.

 

[brewprint]

The issue with using a starter or not isn't whether the yeast will ferment the beer. Way back in the beginning the brewer would work up a mash/boil and stir it with their brew stick. Whatever yeast was still on the stick would ferment the beer.

You could ferment a beer with just a couple of drops of liquid yeast of a pinch of dry yeast. But that is not the best idea.

The idea with making a starter and pitching the proper amount of yeast is to produce the best beer you can. Underpitching can lead to unwanted flavors. Pitching the proper amount lessens the chance of these unwanted flavors.

What are those unwanted flavors? I believe my beer tastes fantastic...especially since I went all grain.

Does say 50,000 cells working to eat sugar leave off flavors as opposed to 100,000 eating the same amount of sugar and leave no off flavors?

Sounds like hocus pocus to me. Especially since the yeast that's eating the sugar reproduces itself because it's eating sugar.

 

[kh54s10]

What are those unwanted flavors? I believe my beer tastes fantastic...especially since I went all grain.

Does say 50,000 cells working to eat sugar leave off flavors as opposed to 100,000 eating the same amount of sugar and leave no off flavors?

Sounds like hocus pocus to me. Especially since the yeast that's eating the sugar reproduces itself because it's eating sugar.

Well if you are pitching 50,000 cells you are under pitching by about 200 billion.

If under pitching the beer it will ferment. It is not my just my opinion but that of brewers with a lot more knowledge that I have that making a properly sized starter will produce better beer.

Get a copy of Yeast: http://www.amazon.com/Yeast-Practical-Fermentation-Brewing-Elements/dp/0937381969

Read it and see if you still feel the same..

But, anyway, whatever works for you.

 

[WoodlandBrew]

What are those unwanted flavors?

Under pitching generally leads to higher production of esters.

Does say 50,000 cells working to eat sugar leave off flavors as opposed to 100,000 eating the same amount of sugar and leave no off flavors?

Over or underpitching by a factor of two has been shown to effect beer quality.

Here is a paper on the subject:
http://www.mbaa.com/publications/tq/tqPastIssues/1996/Abstracts/tq96ab09.htm

Not to say that makes one beer better than the other, just different. If you are looking to produce a consistent product, then a consistent pitch is important. Some of us do that by buying the same yeast every time. Others do it by making their starter the same way every time. Others use the calculators.

That's great that you like the beer you are making. There is no reason to change what you are doing. For those that are looking to improve their beer, working with yeast propagation and pitch rate is a good way to do it.

 

[ACbrewer]

Im brewing a IPA with OG 1.074 Im planning on making my usual 2l starter. I have a 1l on stir plate now(washed us-05). I was hoping to brew tomorrow instead of Friday so I don't have time to crash starter and step up as usual. so the question is, can I make another starter in 2l flask and pitch the whole 1l into it? I have 2 other options, I have a dry packet in fridge I can add to wort when I pitch,or just simply wait and brew Friday

any thought?

The problem facing you is pitching used wort into the fresh wort. I don't mean taking a 1 L start into a 2L starter, I mean pitching the whole starter into the wort for brew.

Starters are dump the liquid, keep the sediment, beers are dump the sediment, keep the liquid. I've read it suggested that pitching starter wort in with the yeast is ok up to about 5% of the finished volume after that the flavor of the starter might start to come through. Used starter (the liquid) is pretty nasty, kind of like beer that has oxygenated because it well has

BUT if you were just asking "I normally decant my starters to do the step up, do I have to?" the answer is no.

If you normally pitch the 2L starter liquid included into the Beer wort and get good beer, then you should be good.

 

[ACbrewer]

What are those unwanted flavors? I believe my beer tastes fantastic...especially since I went all grain.

Does say 50,000 cells working to eat sugar leave off flavors as opposed to 100,000 eating the same amount of sugar and leave no off flavors?

Sounds like hocus pocus to me. Especially since the yeast that's eating the sugar reproduces itself because it's eating sugar.

I was going to say something about how the yeast aren't just consuming sugar. They are also making more yeast, but kh54s10 got to the main point. Get the book and read it.

Get a copy of Yeast: http://www.amazon.com/Yeast-Practical-Fermentation-Brewing-Elements/dp/0937381969

Read it and see if you still feel the same..

And I will be first to admit I still under pitch my beer, and I enjoy that flavor. I also admit that most other people find it only ok. But at least now I understand the pros and cons of doing so, and have the knowledge of how to do better when I want.

 

[brewprint]

Thanks for the references. I am after all just looking for evidence toward taking more time to make beer. If I can cut my time and cost down I'm all for it.

 

[WoodlandBrew]

. If I can cut my time and cost down I'm all for it.

You might want to look through this for ways to reduce brewing time.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/15-minute-brew-process.html

 

[brewprint]

You might want to look through this for ways to reduce brewing time.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/15-minute-brew-process.html

I'm not sold on using excessive amounts of yeast to pitch. There are so many variables. A guy could use the same strain and same grain bill and 2 different amounts of starters and I bet a 1 liter starter vs a 1.5 or 2 liter starter would make no difference to the end user(drinker).

I need to read the white paper.