Starting to make yeast starters

[GrayingNeophyte]

Good day, fellow brewers.
Although there’s plenty of information on the topic of yeast starters, one aspect of it bugs me and would like to hear some advice to obtain clarification.
For instance, if the idea is to make a 1500ml yeast starter, the instructions usually indicate to add such volume to flask or to a pot and then boil for 15 minutes to sanitize.
On my first attempt, boiling in a pot, by the time I was able to transfer the resulting wort into a flask, the volume was much lower, closer to 1000ml due to evaporation.
Boiling directly in the 2 liter flask was a bit tricky due to tendency to boil over, but still ended up with less than 1500ml.
My question is, does a 1500ml yeast starter means the staring amount of water, or should I start with a larger volume of water to end up with close to 1500ml after evaporation?
Thank you for your patience with us newbies and your willingness to provide us with guidance.
Cheers

 

[MaxStout]

When it calls for a 1500ml starter, that means 1500ml of wort.

Start with more water, then shoot for 1500ml with the DME dissolved. Be careful adding boiling water to DME or vice-versa, as the extract will create nucleation points and cause the water to boil over.

Boil the water in the flask until the level drops a little below 1500. You really only need to boil in the flask for a few minutes to sanitize it--the rising steam will quickly make the whole flask very hot. So start out with maybe 1600ml or so and boil it down. Cover the mouth with a piece of sanitized foil and wait until the water cools a little, but is still hot enough to sanitize. Just so it's below the boiling point. Then slowly add the DME and swirl the flask to mix it in. Let it cool the rest of the way and pitch the yeast.

 

[Beer-lord]

You could also use a tiny bit of Fermcap S to prevent boil overs. I have a 5L flask and a drop or two makes sure it never boils over. It's good to keep that in your homebrew took kit.

 

[springinloose1]

Time to graduate to a bigger flask. Those little 2L guys either boil over (but they do sell a foam control product that kicks butt! One or two drops = zero boil over), or if they don't boil over, you run the risk of getting a yeast strain that is a crazy fermenter and you'll be cleaning your starter up off the counter and floors the next morning. If you're hell bent on using it, fill it up to the amount you'd like to have, add your DME (which raises the overall level), and boil for 10 minutes... That will drop to the level you want but don't heat too hot though; we don't want to scorch the DME. Get a welding glove and pick it up and stir every minute or so to prevent scorching.

Obviously I do not know how big of a batch you usually brew or if you plan to lager, but if you can swing the money for the 5L flask you won't be sorry. And as a side note, what I've been doing for quite some time now is instead of making a starter a few days before brew day, I wait and make one the day of brew day using the wort from the mash. While I'm boiling in my kettle, I've got the stove going boiling a starter. That way you're sure to always hit your volume and starting gravity, plus it's the same wort your brewing with so you can dump the whole flask in without decanting if you didn't want to. This saves time and money not doing a starter days before; you don't need DME anymore, and you save on the amount of water used to cool after boil since the starter will need to sit and propagate so your wort sits for a couple days cooling perfectly to room temperature.

 

[flars]

I just bring the volume of water I need for the starter to a boil with the lid on the kettle. Once at a boil turn the heat way down just to maintain the boil for about three minutes. This sanitizes the kettle. Remove the kettle from the heat and add the DME. Stir to dissolve and cool to ambient temperature for pitching the yeast. One minute of wet contact at 171°F will sanitize.

I think the instructions to boil for fifteen minutes is like the instructions to transfer your beer to a secondary fermentor after 4 to 5 days in the primary.

 

[pvpeacock]

I bought a few of these and they are great. https://www.morebeer.com/products/reagent-bottle-yeast-starters-1000-ml.html Mix up 1 ltr. of water and DME, fill the bottle, add a drop of fermacap or equivalent, put in microwave for 5-6 minutes until it starts boiling, remove, cap the bottle and put in the refrigerator. When you plan to make a starter, just take out of the refrig. and let it warm to room temperature. Then pour it in your flask, add the yeast and stir bar and voila! I keep 2 - 3 liters of starter wort in my refrigerator at all times.

 

[GrayingNeophyte]

Good morning and a heartfelt Thank You for your responses.
Several great ideas and good advice, indeed. I much appreciate your input and now it’ll be time to put in an hour or two of overtime at work in order to go shopping for brew gear.
Cheers.

 

[BigCrazyAl]

Part of what got me when I was trying to figure this out was determining what people meant by "make a 1L starter" for example. I figured out that there is an assumed gravity of 1.040. If you use enough dme for that gravity in 1L then the ending amount of water can vary a good bit and still keep you in the 1.030 to 1.050 range. Just try not to go too much higher than 1.040 so the yeast doesn't get stressed. The amount of DME is the most important part but the ending gravity needs to be close to 1.040.

I don't know if that helps too much but that's what I've learned.

 

[Jtk78]

Another vote for the 5 liter starter. Also allows you to make a starter big enough to just save some for future brews.

 

[GrayingNeophyte]

Jtk78, a second vote for a big flask is quite convincing, and I’m intrigued by your suggestion to make a big starter and save some for future use. That actually sounds quite appealing, but that brings up new questions. I don’t suppose you can just throw in a yeast pack into 4L of wort, spin it for a day and then split in half to use right away and for posterity?
Do you have to start small and then step it up, or can it actually go large from the start?
Thank you all for your guidance and I’m glad you’re pointing me in the direction to research and learn more about this aspect of the hobby.
It’s been said that old dogs can’t learn new things, but I’m trying my best to prove the adage is not absolutely true , and I’ll still drink and share my efforts.
Thank you. I actually like the advice obtained in this forum more than what I have read in the couple of books I have read on the subject.
Please keep sharing.

 

[Jtk78]

Jtk78, a second vote for a big flask is quite convincing, and I’m intrigued by your suggestion to make a big starter and save some for future use. That actually sounds quite appealing, but that brings up new questions. I don’t suppose you can just throw in a yeast pack into 4L of wort, spin it for a day and then split in half to use right away and for posterity?
Do you have to start small and then step it up, or can it actually go large from the start?
Thank you all for your guidance and I’m glad you’re pointing me in the direction to research and learn more about this aspect of the hobby.
It’s been said that old dogs can’t learn new things, but I’m trying my best to prove the adage is not absolutely true , and I’ll still drink and share my efforts.
Thank you. I actually like the advice obtained in this forum more than what I have read in the couple of books I have read on the subject.
Please keep sharing.

I have built starters in 3 to 3.5L range and split it up for use without stepping it up. I've also had some that got stepped up. I let the yeast calculators guide me here. I will check a few different ones, but tend to follow brewersfriend.com the closest. I've heard a lot of people here use the Mr. Malty one as well, but it's not as friendly on a mobile device, or at least wasn't last time I checked.

I had a 2L flask and was doing a bigger beer so I was going to need to step my starter. What I didn't realize is the need to actually increase the wort volume. I did a 1.3L starter, chilled it, recanted it, and did another 1.3L starter. Afterwards I learned it's much better to go from .8L, chill, decant, up to 1.3L. A week latter I walked into the LHBS and there was the 5L at a great price. The only negative is it does not fit in my fridge. When I remove it from the stir plate, I immediately split it into mason jars to chill it. I will already know which I'm using and what's to be used in the future. I'll label the future yeast with strain, date made, and amount of cells I believe to be in the jar. The next time I use it I usually run the yeast calcs with half to 2/3 the number I wrote on it and make another starter to split up again.

 

[springinloose1]

Jtk78, a second vote for a big flask is quite convincing, and I’m intrigued by your suggestion to make a big starter and save some for future use. That actually sounds quite appealing, but that brings up new questions. I don’t suppose you can just throw in a yeast pack into 4L of wort, spin it for a day and then split in half to use right away and for posterity?
Do you have to start small and then step it up, or can it actually go large from the start?

If you're going to use the other half in reasonable time then yes, otherwise if you won't be pitching in, say, a week, I wouldn't unless you decant and ramp it back up... but why, just make what you're going to use; it'll save time and money. If you want to make and store more wort without the yeast is fine, but don't store with yeast. They lose viability.

You can go large from the start. That 5L flask, in one shot, will do a 5.5 gallon lager batch using 2 packages of yeast. It's literally the only one you'll ever need. In fact, I don't ever know when I'll use the 1L and 2L flasks I own but absolutely can't part with them in fear of all of the sudden needing them...

 

[Jtk78]

If you're going to use the other half in reasonable time then yes, otherwise if you won't be pitching in, say, a week, I wouldn't unless you decant and ramp it back up... but why, just make what you're going to use; it'll save time and money. If you want to make and store more wort without the yeast is fine, but don't store with yeast. They lose viability.

I save yeast on starter wort all the time, and have had good results using it weeks to months later. Now I will decant it and make other starter (usually big enough to save some again), and I'll use about half my original cell count as my new starting cell count to account for loss of viability.

My take is my starter wort is staying under 1.040 (not stressing yeast), I don't have hop influence on harvested yeast, and I'm making a starter anyway so I may as well save some for future batches.