Starter Question

[Ryat66]

I have had a recurring issue with my bigger beers that I believe is linked to under pitching. I get a burnt rubber aroma that eventually ages out but it's still a turn off knowing the beer once carried that aroma. I am not ready to call it full-blown autolysis but I think I might be toeing the line on that because of the big beer and probably an abundance of dead cells. The latest example of this was a 1.084 winter warmer (basically a spiced old ale) that I fermented with WLP005 starting at 62F and fermenting out at 67F. I used Brewer's Friend Yeast Calculator with Braukaiser's profile which called for 285B cells based on the date of my vile. I made a 1.4L, 1.038 starter and left it go 30 hours on the stir plate.

There's the background but here's my actual question: If I need to make a starter with 285B cells, am I better off using two vials with a smaller starter or 1 vial and a larger starter? I am wondering if maybe one vial is having a hard time reaching the target pitch rate even though the math says it can get there.

Of course, if this sounds like crazy nonsense and you have another idea please let me know.

 

[LLBeanJ]

A single step starter from a fresh vial of yeast should be fine for achieving the cell count you were shooting for. At least with the batch you mentioned, I wouldn't think the issue would be from underpitching. Also, my experience with autolysis is pretty much none, but I wouldn't think that autolysis is something that would age out, though I could be wrong.

How do you oxygenate? Also, maybe a chlorine/chloramine issue? What is your water source?

 

[Ryat66]

A single step starter from a fresh vial of yeast should be fine for achieving the cell count you were shooting for. At least with the batch you mentioned, I wouldn't think the issue would be from underpitching. Also, my experience with autolysis is pretty much none, but I wouldn't think that autolysis is something that would age out, though I could be wrong.

How do you oxygenate? Also, maybe a chlorine/chloramine issue? What is your water source?

I gave this beer a 90 second hit with the Northern Brewer Oxygenation Kit 2.0. I use RO water (my municipal supply is too variable) and build a profile using Bru'n Water.

I did read something about burnt rubber aroma being related to sulfides which might explain why it ages out. Regardless, I wonder what causes it.

 

[JonM]

Burned rubber makes me think chlorine/chloramines in the water too.

EDIT: You're using RO. Never mind. Ignore me.

 

[flars]

The problem could just be the yeast used. WLP005 is designed to bring put malty flavors in British styles ales, but is rated rather low for beers with herbs and spices.

 

[Ryat66]

The problem could just be the yeast used. WLP005 is designed to bring put malty flavors in British styles ales, but is rated rather low for beers with herbs and spices.

Hmmm...I hadn't thought about this. I see that now on White Labs website, it's rated 2 for beers of this style.

 

[Ryat66]

After doing some reading, I decided to do a rebrew on this and change yeast strain and pitching rate. I chose Nottingham (better suited) and a pitching rate of 1M cells/mL/*Plato. It's currently at high krausen so we'll see how it turns out.

 

[Ryat66]

My only reason for posting so many details is that I hope this might help someone in the future...the subsequent rebrew on this beer has turned out well. Now, it's only three weeks old but it's a much better beer already. I do not detect any of the same characteristics as I did in the previous batch.

To reiterate, I only changed pitching rate with this beer, everything else is exactly the same. I have confidence in my process and feel that I achieve a level of consistency that I am comfortable in saying that it wasn't something process related the last time. However, I have never and will never rule out infection on the previous batch but I highly doubt it as I'm a sanitation freak and use Star San as intended, meaning that I actually heed the no-rinse aspect of the product. In addition and no matter how rare, I matched all of the descriptors for autolysis: burnt rubber, meaty, brothy, soy sauce like character. This beer also sat in secondary for 2.5 months without any type of formation on top, again that leads me to believe it wasn't infection.

Anyway, I will get this beer bottled in the next month and will just hang onto it for next holiday season (2016) as it is rather alcohol hot.

EDIT: I just realized that I previously said I used Notty for the re-brew. That is NOT correct, I did in fact use WLP005 so that I could do an apples to apples comparison by only upping the pitching rate. Again, not the best strain for this style but the purpose of the re-brew was to test my theory.