Starsan 1 month in Letica Bucket -- White film, dissolved plastic?

[der_Missionar]

Been brewing for years. Never saw this. I had StarSan sitting 1 month in a 6 Gallon Letica HDPE bucket. i pulled it out to sanitize my bottles, and I started seeing streams of white, flowing into the bottles...

Thinking something was wrong, I poured out the entire bucket of Starsan, and there was a white milky, streaky film that poured out with the starsan. The bottom of the bucket looked shiny, like it was covered with a film...

It seems like my Starsan dissolved a layer of the bucket. So odd!

Anyone ever see this before? Starsan isn't supposed to destroy the plastic...

This was the last bit of starsan in my starsan bottle... Could acid have settled into the bottom of the bottle, making the last bit in the starsan bottle extremely caustic, causing it to eat away at the plastic?

So confused right now.

Should I dispose of that bucket?

What are your thoughts on all this?

 

[der_Missionar]

Addition... In retrospect, I'm recalling that my starsan solution always turns a bit whitish after sitting for a few weeks. This is the longest it's sat on it's own. I'm wondering if the whitish color wasn't always the starsan eating away at the bucket... This time, it just had more time to do real damage.

Perhaps I should store my starsan in an unused Glass Carboy instead......

Again, I'm confused as I didnt think Starsan was supposed to do damage like this.

 

[grampamark]

I’ve had Starsan in the same bucket for-well, about as long as I’ve been brewing, whch is 8 years now. The solution always becomes cloudy after a month or so but I’ve never seen any sign of deterioration of the plastic.

I usually dump mine and mix up a new batch about every 90 days, or so, whether it needs it or not.

 

[kh54s10]

I kept mine in a 5 gallon water bottle for about 6 years. The water where I lived must have been very good for Starsan since it never got cloudy. I just topped it up when under one gallon was left. The bottle was never emptied in those 6 years and it did nothing that I can see to the bottle.

 

[Robert65]

Star San softens my vinyl blow off tube as it sits in the jar, leaving it semi-opaque and sticky. I've heard anecdotal reports of it attacking various plastics. But I've never had it affect an HDPE bucket, and like @grampamark, I've had it continuously in the same bucket for many years. More to the point, the Star San concentrate itself comes packaged in HDPE, and can be stored indefinitely without having any effect. Is it possible your bucket had a coating of some other plastic?

 

[der_Missionar]

I guess it's possible it had a coating... but not at all likely... I was using this bucket for about 5 years... Never had a problem till now, but it's like it took a layer off of the HDPE. I'm totally weirded out by this.

Today I was using Starsan in another HDPE 2 Bucket (Leaktite), and the starsan solution was cloudy in 1/2 hour. Could that be the plastics?

I'm filling a 5 gallon bucket with water and adding 1oz of Starsan, from a 16oz starsan bottle. I'm assuming this is the right concentration, right?

Is ingesting this stuff safe? I understand HDPE is supposed to be inert... I guess if the Acid breaks it down, it's still inert? Now I'm feeling paranoid...

That is, unless something else fell into it and the starsan dissolved it. I saw another post of someone's starsan bucket developing a leak, way back in 2009 - and he swore up and down that the Starsan had eaten a hole through the bottom of his bucket.



Totally confused.

Edit: @zacster you were the one that mentioned a similar problem back in 2009... Ever find anything out?

 

[Robert65]

Cloudiness doesn't tell you much. It's just caused by minerals in the water. If you mix Star San with RO or distilled water it will stay clear indefinitely. Typical tap water and it will cloud up quickly.

 

[WBB]

Yup, just like Robert65 said. I put star San in a bucket with regular tap water and it clouded up. It’s not going to affect the effectiveness, but looks odd. I’ve since used distilled water and it’s been clear ever since. Sometimes I go 6-8 months and still clear. It’s prob still effective, but usually at 6 months or so I make a new batch.

 

[der_Missionar]

Yeah, probably being too paranoid after what I poured out if it. If the white stuff wasn't the bucket, I guess something else could have dropped in and dissolved....

Living the mystery...

In other news, the German Alt I bottled today tastes AMAZING!

 

[RPh_Guy]

Cloudiness doesn't tell you much. It's just caused by minerals in the water. If you mix Star San with RO or distilled water it will stay clear indefinitely. Typical tap water and it will cloud up quickly.

This.

The white stuff is phosphate salt precipitates. The phosphoric acid in Star San binds to minerals in your water.

It's not eating through the HDPE.

 

[mongoose33]

I learned the hard way not to keep vinyl tubing in star-san. Eventually it clouded the tubing and produced a slimy sort of coating on it.

My plastic bucket holds star-san full-time, and I'll keep that in there for a few months at least. It's never done anything.

 

[Jag75]

I learned the hard way not to keep vinyl tubing in star-san. Eventually it clouded the tubing and produced a slimy sort of coating on it.

My plastic bucket holds star-san full-time, and I'll keep that in there for a few months at least. It's never done anything.

Exactly what I've experienced

 

[seatazzz]

I keep my Starsan solution in a dollar store 5 gallon HDPE bucket. Never an issue and it doesn't get cloudy from our water, just discolored from the various things I soak in it. I replace it about once a month or so if I think about it. Haven't had an infection in a long time. Brewpub boss bought a 32oz bottle of it last year but doesn't like to use it (he prefers iodophor) so he gifted it to me. That thing will last me at least another two years.

 

[bucketnative]

Starsan will attack nylon (phsophoric acid is a solvent for that material) when in contact for extended periods of time.

As someone else mentioned it will react with PVC tubing, but I believe that is mostly the plasticizer. Acids will react with the DEHP plasticizer and leave an oily sticky residue when the DEHP (or degradants) bloom from the polymer.

HDPE and/or PP should be good to go.

 

[kh54s10]

I keep my Starsan solution in a dollar store 5 gallon HDPE bucket. Never an issue and it doesn't get cloudy from our water, just discolored from the various things I soak in it. I replace it about once a month or so if I think about it. Haven't had an infection in a long time. Brewpub boss bought a 32oz bottle of it last year but doesn't like to use it (he prefers iodophor) so he gifted it to me. That thing will last me at least another two years.

If a 32 ounce bottle only lasts you about 2 years you are either brewing an ton or you are really wasting it. I had a 16 ounce bottle, I brewed on average once a month. Plus a dozen or more wines.. It lasted 8 years......

 

[der_Missionar]

This.

The white stuff is phosphate salt precipitates. The phosphoric acid in Star San binds to minerals in your water.

It's not eating through the HDPE.

Could the slurry on the bottom also be phosphate salt precipitates? This was a significant white slurry on the bottom...

 

[RPh_Guy]

Could the slurry on the bottom also be phosphate salt precipitates? This was a significant white slurry on the bottom...

Yes, that's what I mean.

It's not likely a problem, just visually unappealing.

If you test the pH of your Star San you could confirm that it's still active. The pH needs to be 3.0 or lower.

FYI Star San comes in a HDPE container; it obviously does not degrade it at all.

 

[ncbrewer]

When I used tap water for Star San, it turned cloudy and items that were in it for a few minutes got a slimy feel. I feel sure that is the precipitate settling on the items. I don't like the idea of this "slime" being on the fermenter and other items because after it dried, it could be a place for nasties to get in and hide. So now I use distilled water.

 

[JimRausch]

I store my used diluted starsan in gallon milk jugs . After 4-5 months it eats pinpoint holes through the plastic and I get starsan puddles. Time for a new jug...... So, as previously stated, it depends on the type of plastic.

 

[Miraculix]

I lost one spray bottle to it, it ate away the vaporiser, now it's more acting like a water gun.

 

[kh54s10]

I lost one spray bottle to it, it ate away the vaporiser, now it's more acting like a water gun.

Do you know that was caused by the Starsan? I have had the same thing happen in spray bottle that only had water in them. Sometimes in weeks and sometimes in many years.

My first Starsan spray bottle lasted over 6 years, the second one less than one year and the third is still fine.

 

[Miraculix]

Do you know that was caused by the Starsan? I have had the same thing happen in spray bottle that only had water in them. Sometimes in weeks and sometimes in many years.

My first Starsan spray bottle lasted over 6 years, the second one less than one year and the third is still fine.

It never saw something else then Star San so I guess that was the reason.

 

[Robert65]

I lost one spray bottle to it, it ate away the vaporiser, now it's more acting like a water gun.

I had this happen too (ate part of the pump mechanism,) but it took many years. I replaced it with a spray bottle from Home Depot that is supposedly rated for harsh chemicals. Cost a buck or so more than the regular one, so not sure if it's really that much of a cost saving over time. But it shows it does depend on the plastic.

 

[kh54s10]

Spray bottles, even the ones for harsh chemicals are not precision instruments. As I said I have had ones with just water fail in a short amount of time. And I have had ones with Starsan last many years.

In other words with some lasting a short time and others a long time, I cannot pin the problem on Starsan.

I believe it is just the luck of the draw. It could be that there is a part that Starsan might eat and whether it is in a particular spray bottle.

 

[RPh_Guy]

I've also had HDPE jugs start leaking while just holding water.

 

[day_trippr]

I keep 5-1/2" gallons of Star San/DI water mix for purging kegs and routine sanitation. The plastic spigot on the bucket lasts for 2-3 years before the threads dissolve enough that the plastic nut slips and the bucket leaks.

The spigot material is not the same as the nut - I've replaced the spigot twice over the last five years and the original nut is still pristine. I'm pretty sure Delrin is the issue: back when Delrin epoxy mixer sticks were stuffed down keg dip tubes to make up for too short beer lines someone tested that theory and found over time the mixer stick would lose mass to standard Star San mix...

Cheers!

 

[bracconiere]

municipal tap water changes sources, i think....