Anyone with a Spike kettle, have you tested your volume etchings and were they correct? Without any element or false bottom in the kettle, my etchings were about 1/3 gallon off. Not a huge deal, just kind of annoying. I assume the markings are equidistant so each gallon will be off by the same amount but I'm going to test that just to make sure.
Spike etching is off
- Thread starter h22lude
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I think mine were slightly off when I tested it by pouring in a bunch of 18.9L things of water, but to be honest it's not a super accurate test and wasn't very far off so I dunno
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h22lude
Well-Known Member
I'm super OCD about taking really good readings so I measured my gallons by weight in grams. It isn't a huge deal, I can probably take how much it is off by and use that to figure volume out. I just didn't get a sight gauge figuring the etching would be good.
What temp water are you measuring with? Remember that cold water will take up less space than hot water.
I would think that they (originally) calibrated the marking with 72/74 deg water.
I would think that they (originally) calibrated the marking with 72/74 deg water.
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h22lude
Well-Known Member
I took that into account too. I have equipment profiles on BS for room temp, mash temp and boil temp so I know how off I am at any given process.
For measuring I used room temp water. It was off a boiling temp too.
Good deal, a lot of people forget that water expands and contracts too!
Have you contacted them, h22? My vessels all have sight gauges, for a variety of reasons. I've always found the people at Spike to be really responsive.
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h22lude
Well-Known Member
When I started taking good volume readings during the day I became to obsessed with getting the right reading. That's why I created the different BS profiles so I can easily see what the reading should be pre-boil at mash temp and then post-boil at boiling temp.
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h22lude
Well-Known Member
I have emailed them a bunch lol not about this though. I wanted to see if anyone else had this issue. I may email them to let them know but I'm not sure there is much they can do to fix it. I'm not going to ship it back so they can fix it. It is annoying not having the right markers but I can figure something else out.
OK. It would drive me nuts, but I hear you on the PITA. Like these guys alot.
flars
Well-Known Member
Would the volume the etchings are off be equal to the dead space when using the 2 Stage False Bottom? Spike says less than .3 gallons in the dead space.
stella_tigre
Queen of the Upper Mississippi
Our spike kettle appears to be off also, I wondered if it was the amount in the false bottom dead space. Which since we BIAB this is irritating, as we don't use a false bottom. We mainly use the markings once the calculated amount of water is in there to monitor boil off, and after adjusting the brewing calculator we find that we hit our expected numbers just fine. (Tell the calculator to expect to leave a half gallon in the kettle. Usually it's probably a bit less than that, and we have a bit more than 5.5 gal in the fermentor.)
Murphys_Law
Well-Known Member
My 10G Spike is pretty much dead-on.
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h22lude
Well-Known Member
It could be but I'd think they would etch the volumes based on what you order. I ordered just a kettle with 4 TC fittings. I would have assumed they would mark the volumes based on that.
I biab too. I have a different false bottom I bought from Bobby. I'll have to check it again to see what it is off by.
Did you buy their false bottom or anything else? Or did you just buy the kettle?
You weigh your water by gram before filling your tanks!? And you're complaining about a couple percent difference given the fact water expands/contracts based on temp!? haha I don't think the saying 'relax, have a homebrew' has ever been more relevant.
Murphys_Law
Well-Known Member
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h22lude
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure what you are talking about at all. To check a sight gauge or etching, the best way to do it is measuring a gallon of water by weight (3785 grams). I checked it at room temp and boiling and both were off. Close to a half gallon off is not a small percentage.
I only weigh water when checking the etching or sight gauge when I first installed it in my last kettle. After that I used the sight gauge to get the volume I need. Since the etching is off, I know I can't use it to measure volume.
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h22lude
Well-Known Member
I just double checked. At room temp using weight (3785 grams), I poured in 3 gallons. With nothing in the pot it measures a little over 3.25 gallons. So at room temp the etching is 1/4 gallon off and probably about 1/2 gallon off at boiling temp.
triethylborane
Well-Known Member
Doubtful they know either. Relax and enjoy error.
+/- 25% is high. Most "non-precision" lab glassware is -/+5%.
mashinary
Well-Known Member
I have a 15 gallon MegaPot that is off by .25 of a gallon. It bugged me at first, but now it's just part of my system.
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h22lude
Well-Known Member
Not a big fan of error, especially when I paid almost $400 for it. Granted, this is a small error in terms of a custom kettle but still an error. The kettle itself is awesome quality. Just a little annoyed about the etching. I like being able to see exactly where my volume is at different times during brewing so I know I'm on target. Just like measuring gravity.
I'd assume Spike would etch the volume measurement based on nothing in the kettle unless told otherwise by the customer. If I knew it would be off, I wouldn't have done it. I either would have gotten a sight gauge and marked that myself or etched it myself.
Yeah I'll figure out a way for it to work. Just wish I didn't have to do it that way. Not the end of the world.
Curious if you measured with more than 1 volume to see if the error was linear?
You already know it measures 3.25 with 3 gallons added. If you put 6 gallons in, is the water at 6.25 or 6.5 gallons?
I would imagine that's all you need to know to calibrate your system going forward.
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h22lude
Well-Known Member
Yeah I was telling myself that is what I was going to do but after checking 3 gallons, I dumped the water. Completely forgot I wanted to check each mark. I would think it is linear and would be .25 gallons off all the way up.
When you drain the kettle, is there any water left in the pot? Maybe your 1/2 gallon is in that.
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h22lude
Well-Known Member
There is a little but not much. I'd think the measurements would be how much water is in the pot, not how much you take out.
Well to be fair, I think the etching is free but I do think it is very odd they would have some of the best quality kettles but not correctly add the markings.
I did email them to see what they say.
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h22lude
Well-Known Member
I received an email back. They said they shoot for +/- 2.5% error at full volume. I wish I knew this when I ordered it. I wouldn't have had them etch it and done it myself. I know a lot of people wouldn't care about .25 gallons but when I take measurements I like having it as close to the actual volume as possible. I guess that is the accountant in me coming out. This is something they should say on their website.
FunkedOut
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They shoot for 2.5%? Or 25%?
triethylborane
Well-Known Member
At full volume it would be 2.5%. 10 gallon pot probably.
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h22lude
Well-Known Member
2.5% at full volume. I don't think the pot size matters for the percentage but obviously the smaller the pot, the greater the error can be. I have a 15 gallon pot so my error is under their tolerance.
augiedoggy
Well-Known Member
I realize a quart is a lot (if im understanding .25 correctly?) But the reality is they would be off in just about every homebrewery unless the measurements are added after whatever hardware it being used inside of the kettles and displaces that liquid including ball valves and even hops and resulting trub.... I have found the embossed markings in my 16 gallon bayou classic kettles also dont match up with my sight glass readings but since they only cost me $125 each im not upset about it...
triethylborane
Well-Known Member
True, though it would be helpful if they gave the tolerance info on their website. +/-2.5% at full volume, no attachments.
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h22lude
Well-Known Member
Yup, 1 quart.
Yeah I understand everyone has different parts in their kettles that will increase the volume but this quart is off with nothing in the kettle. I would think this would be correct and the error would be when adding anything to the kettle like an element or false bottom.
Exactly. If I saw something like this on their site, I wouldn't have gotten the etching. I probably would have added another TC port (more money for them) and used a sight gauge.
augiedoggy
Well-Known Member
Well one good option would be to rmove them or at least remove the lines and add new ones. The etchings are pretty easy to remove with a little BKF and theres a tutorial here on how to add new ones using a 9v battery...
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h22lude
Well-Known Member
Yeah I think I might try that. I read the tutorial the other day.
Out of curiosity I filled my SS kettle up with .25gal of water. Below are the results. It really makes me scratch my head to what the heck you guys are talking about. The depth of the water is maybe a 1/8" deep and this is only a 10gal kettle. How would this little amount in any way ever affect your brewing?! :smack::smack: I lose more than this switching hoses during a brew day.
I was going to fill up to 2 gallons and see how the SS stacks up but realized it doesn't matter and would be a complete waste of time....
I was going to fill up to 2 gallons and see how the SS stacks up but realized it doesn't matter and would be a complete waste of time....
what is that fitting in the picture? pick-up tube?
I had a day dream today using something like that for a simple whirlpool arm...
Singletrack
Because it's judgement that defeats us.
In general, volume markings on brewing equipment should be taken with a block of salt (aren't accurate). The same is true of cooking equipment. When I first started brewing, I acid-etched volume markings on my glass carboys by carefully measuring volume with a 2 quart measuring cup. Then, after the etching, I bought a good scale and decided to check volumes by weight, after adjusting water density in accordance with actual water temperature. Damn! My measurements were off. But what to do about it? Soon after, I bought a 16 gal BK, and the volume markings on the BK matched my carboy markings perfectly. (Both were "off" of course.) So, I decided to define my own volume units (bat-gal) that match my BK, and I brew by these units. If I get a recipe in real gal, I just convert to bat-gal. I use my own brewing software, so I can do whatever I want, including deciding my own units of measurement. You can too. Use your own numbering system to mark your equipment. Define a time measurement system with unequal increments between units to shorten the brew day -- or lengthen it, if you prefer. You are the brewer, and you are in charge. Take charge.
Also, you could just remove the etchings and add your own in real gal. Too much "charge" isn't for everyone.
Also, you could just remove the etchings and add your own in real gal. Too much "charge" isn't for everyone.
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h22lude
Well-Known Member
If I had to guess, you don't measure correctly. I have a 15 gallon pot and my 1/4 gallon marks are about 1/2". You saying you lose a quart to tubing confirms this.
I'm glad you don't find 1/4 gallon to be anything to worry about. If you find it a complete waste of time, why are you in this thread. Next time, just skip over it and don't post anything in it.
When I first started brewing I checked my bucket using a 2 cup measuring cup. The markings were way off. Well I figured out that even if the measuring cup is accurate, your eyes aren't. Even the smallest amount off each 2 cups adds up over time in 5 gallons. That is why I started measuring my water at room temp. Everything else I have has been measured using weight and is correct which is why I would have liked this to match. Overall, 1/4 gallon off isn't bad. I just wish they mentioned it would be off when I bought it.
I may redo it at some point.
And just to be clear, yes I am OCD about my measurements being spot on. I like being as accurate as possible. It may not affect anything but I like doing it. I'm not so much upset that the etching is off because I can fix it. I'm more upset that they know it will be off and don't tell customers. They obviously have a standard in place that gives them +/- 2.5% error which means they know it is going to be off.
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