Speidel fermenter solera

[brownni5]

I just picked up a 30 L Speidel fermenter (7.9 gal) and think I'm really going to like it for my pale sour solera.

I have a 15 gal oak rye barrel that I picked up a couple years ago and have a lot of fun with that, but space is a real issue - another barrel simply isn't going to fit in my basement. But the smaller footprint of the upright Speidel will.

Ported? Check. Heavy duty? Check. Plastic construction to allow micro-oxidation? Check. Handles in case I need to move it? Check. Customizable? Check.

Short of stainless, I have all the other available fermenters out there, and none check all this boxes. Sure, it's a bit more expensive, but Ritebrew's price can't be beat, so it wasn't that much more than, say, a Fermonster.

For long-term sours, I'd recommend getting a barrel. If that's not going to happen, I think a Speidel might be a good second choice.

 

[sweetcell]

Plastic construction to allow micro-oxidation? Check.

has anyone tested this? barring that, any accounts of experience with long-aged sours in a Spiedel?

based on my observations of my friend's Spiedel, i think that they'd be good for sours... but confirmation would be nice

 

[Birrofilo]

Speidel plastic fermenters are made of PE. That is much more permeable to oxygen than PET, which is the material of Fermonster for instance.

I am not interested in micro-oxidation so I only use stainless steel fermenters and a Fermonster for beer. I use generic plastic fermenters (must check if they are PP or PE) for the distillation side of the hobby, but there, again, a little bit of sour it's OK.

The problem with porous plastic is the same as wood, it "retains" the previous beer, e.g. it has a "memory" of the previous yeast, or if you happen to have an infected fermentation, the stink will be much more difficult to eliminate.

https://polymerdatabase.com/polymer physics/Permeability.html
If you consider that also a stainless steel carboy and a glass carboy have a small gas permeability through the opening (e.g. the silicon gasket) a PET fermenter has a gaspermeability which is comparable to glass and SS while a PE (both HDPE and LDPE) has a much higher permeability.

 

[mashpaddled]

I've aged sour beer for years in Better Bottles and similar HDPE carboys. No problems with the beers coming out oxidized or acetic despite long, long aging. If you root around you'll find the old comparisons of permeability and see those carboys have roughly the same permeability of a large 55-59 gallon barrel. You'll get more oxidation in a smaller barrel.

I don't know if the same is true of Speidel fermenters and their use of gaskets to seal the lid and the port.

 

[cactusgarrett]

Here's some info from Jeff Sparrow regarding the permeability of various materials to give you an idea of comparison. It doesn't have PE, but it does mention a couple HDPE formats. I've also read somewhere else that with the more dense materials, you're more susceptible to oxygen ingress via a port (ex. spigot, bung, airlock, etc.).

 

[brownni5]

Had I done more research, I may have come to a different decision. As it is, the beer is in there and I'm willing to let it ride. My solera 15-gal barrel has been going for 2 years with no acetic character, so I'm not that worried. If nothing else, another data point as @sweetcell pointed out.

 

[sweetcell]

I've also read somewhere else that with the more dense materials, you're more susceptible to oxygen ingress via a port (ex. spigot, bung, airlock, etc.).

per chance do you remember where you read that?

to my mind, the only way that makes sense is that since the walls of the fermentor are thicker and let less/no air through, then a relatively higher percentage of O2 ingress will occur at the ports, lids, etc. but overall, thicker material should result in less O2 ingress overall. thcker material shouldn't result in more ingress thought the ports vs. thinner material fermentor... but i may be missing something here.

 

[mashpaddled]

per chance do you remember where you read that?

to my mind, the only way that makes sense is that since the walls of the fermentor are thicker and let less/no air through, then a relatively higher percentage of O2 ingress will occur at the ports, lids, etc. but overall, thicker material should result in less O2 ingress overall. thcker material shouldn't result in more ingress thought the ports vs. thinner material fermentor... but i may be missing something here.

My thought as well.

 

[cactusgarrett]

per chance do you remember where you read that?

to my mind, the only way that makes sense is that since the walls of the fermentor are thicker and let less/no air through, then a relatively higher percentage of O2 ingress will occur at the ports, lids, etc. but overall, thicker material should result in less O2 ingress overall. thcker material shouldn't result in more ingress thought the ports vs. thinner material fermentor... but i may be missing something here.

Could have been one of hundreds of podcast interviews, too. But that's what I mean: with the denser materials being so impermeable, you're more likely to get oxygen ingress from a port interface. It's relative, as you suggested.