Sparging technique for best efficiency

[Wheelspin]

This is something I've been wondering about for some time now.

For maximum sparging efficiency in my HERMS system, is it best to :

1) Maintain the ±1" of water above the grain bed right until the end or,
2) Run the grain bed dry at the ned of the sparge ?

In your experience, what's the best technique here ?

 

[Onkel_Udo]

This is something I've been wondering about for some time now.

For maximum sparging efficiency in my HERMS system, is it best to :

1) Maintain the ±1" of water above the grain bed right until the end or,
2) Run the grain bed dry at the ned of the sparge ?

In your experience, what's the best technique here ?

I am not 100% sure I got the question right but I will give it whirl. The goal of sparging is to liberate the remaining sugars that are "stuck" to the grains, put them in solution with the water and add that (sugar) water to the boil kettle. I can think of no scenario where leaving water in the mash tun instead of getting it into the BK would increase efficiency.

 

[bbrim]

You want to maintain that depth above the grain throughout the sparge so long as you are still adding sparge water. The keeps the grain bed loose and helps avoid channeling. Once you are done adding sparge water drain the mlt all the way. Like Onkel said, you don't want to leave anything behind.

 

[Wheelspin]

Uuum, how do I explain this.

What I usually do is I sparge away with ± 1' of sparge water above my grain bed until I have collected about 39 litres in the boil kettle.

At that point, based on passed experience, I know that I still have approx 10 L of liquid left in the mash tun so I turn off the sparge pump and continue to pump into the boil kettle until I reached my boil volume of 49 l litres.

At that point, there mash tun is basically empty of liquid.

What I'm wondering is :

Should i maintain that 1" of sparge water above the grain until I reach my required 49 L total boil volume ?

Or, as I have been doing, when I reach 39 L, switch off the sparge water pump and drain the rest of the wort in the mash tun into the boil kettle - basically leaving the mash tun empty of liquid ?

How I'm making sense ?

 

[MX1]

It sounds like he is fly sparging, and wanting to know if he should collect his full boil amount while leaving the grain bed covered, or knowing his system, stop the fly sparge and drain the wort from the HLT to hit his final volume.

I Batch sparge, so I can not answer the question, but it sounds like a mix of the 2 techniques to me, fly until you need to batch, kinda, maybe, sorta

 

[Wheelspin]

Yup MX, think you summed it up.

Now, anyone know the answer ?

 

[TungstenBeer]

I...knowing his system, stop the fly sparge and drain the wort from the HLT to hit his final volume.

I assume you meant drain the wort from the MLT to hit his final volume?

Either way, it should not affect his efficiency. To increase, you would actually want to sparge more and boil longer, or something like that. Timing of shutting off sparge water doesn't matter.

If it helps, my process is: I continue sparging with 1" or so on top until my HLT is dry. Usually my HLT runs out about a gallon before I've hit my pre-boil volume. I continue to drain my MLT until I've reached pre-boil volume, and then drain the rest of the runnings into a bucket which I discard. I usually get about 88-90% mash efficiency.

 

[MX1]

I assume you meant drain the wort from the MLT to hit his final volume?

Either way, it should not affect his efficiency. To increase, you would actually want to sparge more and boil longer, or something like that. Timing of shutting off sparge water doesn't matter.

If it helps, my process is: I continue sparging with 1" or so on top until my HLT is dry. Usually my HLT runs out about a gallon before I've hit my pre-boil volume. I continue to drain my MLT until I've reached pre-boil volume, and then drain the rest of the runnings into a bucket which I discard. I usually get about 88-90% mash efficiency.

yes indeed i did mean MLT not HLT. Thnks for pointing that out.

I do not fly sparge, but if I did, I would stop the sparge when I knew there was enough wort left in the HLT to hit my needed volume. But that is just me.
T

 

[VladOfTrub]

Keep an inch of water above the grain and stop run off into the boiler when pH of the run off rises to 5.8. Boom, done.

 

[Wheelspin]

That's sounds good. However I PH adjust my sparge water with phosphoric acid to 5.5 so (I think) it never rises above ± 5.6 ??? My mashes are adjusted to 5.5, also with phosphoric.

Am I correct in my thinking that my runoff PH will never go above ± 5.6 ?

 

[VladOfTrub]

The pH probably won't rise during the sparge, but you are the brewer and it might be something to test.
Understand, that when you stick pH at one number, as you are doing, you might be causing an issue. Sticking mash at 5.5 pH favors alpha amylase, the pH level slows down beta. So, if you are attempting to brew beer, which requires a little more enzymatic action from beta, you blew it. It is not a bad idea to find out what the optimum pH is for the enzyme that you are going to utilize. If you are using an optimum temperature for a particular enzyme, the pH must be optimum, as well.
It is not a good idea to begin mashing until pH is established in the mash. Once, mash pH stabilizes, then acid can be added if it is needed and then the mash temperature can be increased into proteolysis, or sacc rest ranges. Do what you want with the sparge water. But, when it comes to doctoring up the mash, you kinda need to know what is going to take place, before dumping acid into it.
By the way, what made you believe that sticking the mash at pH 5.5, is the best pH for making beer?

 

[Wheelspin]

Thanks for the advice above.

In answer to your questions, I generally mash at ± 65C (149F) in the understanding that I am striking a balance between alpha and beta amylase action.

I adjust my mash and sparge water to around 5.5 because I understand that optimum mashing ph is 5.2 to 5.6.
I have found that mashing in at 5.5 gives me (deepening on the grains being used) gives me a final mash ph of around 5.3 to 5.4 which is right in the middle of the recommended mashing ph.

Your further comments would be appreciated esp in regard to mashing ph and at what point to measure the mash ph.

 

[esahlong]

This is something I've been wondering about for some time now.

For maximum sparging efficiency in my HERMS system, is it best to :

1) Maintain the ±1" of water above the grain bed right until the end or,
2) Run the grain bed dry at the ned of the sparge ?

In your experience, what's the best technique here ?

1.) If your goal is to extract as much sugar as possible from the grain with little regard to collection volume, then you would keep sparging until the gravity of the runnings measured no lower than a certain predetermined gravity. Some stop as high as 1.012-1.010 while others go as low as 1.008-1.006. In this situation you would maintain the water above the grain and discard the runnings left in the tun when you hit the stopping gravity.

2.) If your goal is to collect a predetermined volume of runnings then you would empty the tun at the end of the sparge.